ShinyRhino Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 - devastator squads are both infantry and heavy support, which means in Dawn of War missions they will waste AT LEAST one turn of shooting, AND they will take ages to get into a good position to shoot most of the time without a transport. This is huge. Wow, I'd totally forgotten about this. Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 - devastator squads are both infantry and heavy support, which means in Dawn of War missions they will waste AT LEAST one turn of shooting, AND they will take ages to get into a good position to shoot most of the time without a transport. This is huge.I agree. This is a good argument to buy a dedicated transport. The most logical might be a Rhino, allowing you to make 1 of 2 Combat Squads rock solid, in a non-Dawn of War mission. As to your scoring unit argument, I'd go a step further and say that GW could do a lot for SMs by publishing a special character in WD that allows you to count them as Troops. And another for Assault Marines, for that matter. *sigh* Oh well. We can wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 As to your scoring unit argument, I'd go a step further and say that GW could do a lot for SMs by publishing a special character in WD that allows you to count them as Troops. And another for Assault Marines, for that matter. *sigh* Oh well. We can wish... I think it'd be horribly overpowered to have devastator squads as troops. I mean, just imagine the following; 4 missile launchers 3 meatshield marines That's 198 pts for 4 heavy weapons (one of which shoots at BS5), and 8 power armored bodies. Get some razorbacks in, and we're talking 5 reliable (BS4) heavy weapons per troop choice. Combine that with some tuff units to hold the enemy at a distance (th/ss termies come to mind), and add some pieplates like vindicators, and we'd end up turning spess mahreens into a power armored version of imperial guard. :rolleyes: Hence why I think a scoring dev squad would be both very fluffy AND balanced in game terms. Because it still forces you to get those two mandatory tactical squads, which cuts on the number of heavy weapons in the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 You say that like two squads of Tactical Marines or Scouts aren't actually genuinely useful on their own. I can find things for snipers to do, and Tactical Marines are some of the most flexible, capable troops in the game, although they're not tougher than a Guard platoon. (Individual models, yes, but 25 warm bodies in three squads spread across a wider area is just a bit harder to dispose of.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 The short answer is that they are never the superior choice given the other HS options. MM>LC in every relevant situation, so you take MM on mobile platforms for antitank, freeing up your HS choices for all-around units like dakka-preds or vindicators if you face a lot of MEQ. If you need objective campers 10 scouts with camo cloaks is cheaper and more survivable (i.e. anything that would wipe the scouts (vindi plate for example) would also kill the devs and more often than not the scouts get a better save. 3+ cover > 3+ armor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Anyone else find it funny that the 9nth company is the only Codex company that cant be simulated with one of the marine codices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Anyone else find it funny that the 9nth company is the only Codex company that cant be simulated with one of the marine codices? I find it sad. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Anyone else find it funny that the 9nth company is the only Codex company that cant be simulated with one of the marine codices? I hadn't noticed it due to Devastators being so overpriced, but yeah, now you mention it. However, you can simulate it using the codex and the planetstrike rules, and given that Planetstrike Defence is the only arena where you would realistically want to field the Ninth, it's not so much of a problem. As to your scoring unit argument, I'd go a step further and say that GW could do a lot for SMs by publishing a special character in WD that allows you to count them as Troops. And another for Assault Marines, for that matter. *sigh* Oh well. We can wish... Oh hell no. We don't need more special characters in an attempt to fix the stupid list. Less herohammer, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah. Generally, if you need ten squads of heavy weapons troopers on the field, you're in a really big mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah. Generally, if you need ten squads of heavy weapons troopers on the field, you're in a really big mess. Like this right? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d7/Tyranid_Hierophant.jpg/400px-Tyranid_Hierophant.jpg I ran the numbers the other day, just for fun. If I remember right it takes 36 LasCannon shots to drop one in a single turn. There you go, the entire 9th Company is planetside to go pew pew at REALLY big bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Anyone else find it funny that the 9nth company is the only Codex company that cant be simulated with one of the marine codices? I hadn't noticed it due to Devastators being so overpriced, but yeah, now you mention it. However, you can simulate it using the codex and the planetstrike rules, and given that Planetstrike Defence is the only arena where you would realistically want to field the Ninth, it's not so much of a problem. As to your scoring unit argument, I'd go a step further and say that GW could do a lot for SMs by publishing a special character in WD that allows you to count them as Troops. And another for Assault Marines, for that matter. *sigh* Oh well. We can wish... Oh hell no. We don't need more special characters in an attempt to fix the stupid list. Less herohammer, thank you very much. Besides... we dont need a special character for the 7-8 companies- we have C:BA for that :P. As for planetstrike- you still need 2 tacticals.... so *shrugs*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah. Generally, if you need ten squads of heavy weapons troopers on the field, you're in a really big mess. Like this right? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d7/Tyranid_Hierophant.jpg/400px-Tyranid_Hierophant.jpg I ran the numbers the other day, just for fun. If I remember right it takes 36 LasCannon shots to drop one in a single turn. There you go, the entire 9th Company is planetside to go pew pew at REALLY big bugs. Thanks. That visual made me really laugh. Now I actually want to field that as a formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Minigun, that monstrosity right there? That's the point where I stop messing around with Devastators and just use a nuke or something similarly destructive instead of waving my mega-phallic flashlight around. It may be a small nuke, or just telling an Apocalypse-class BB to quit messing around and lance the sucker, or getting the Warhound pilots to do something useful instead of stomp around looking impressive, but something that big? Puny little lascannons are not going to make muster. I may be crazy, but I'm not that crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Minigun, that monstrosity right there? That's the point where I stop messing around with Devastators and just use a nuke or something similarly destructive instead of waving my mega-phallic flashlight around. It may be a small nuke, or just telling an Apocalypse-class BB to quit messing around and lance the sucker, or getting the Warhound pilots to do something useful instead of stomp around looking impressive, but something that big? Puny little lascannons are not going to make muster. I may be crazy, but I'm not that crazy! Thought for the day: If Brute Force isn't working, you aren't using enough of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Minigun, that monstrosity right there? That's the point where I stop messing around with Devastators and just use a nuke or something similarly destructive instead of waving my mega-phallic flashlight around. It may be a small nuke, or just telling an Apocalypse-class BB to quit messing around and lance the sucker, or getting the Warhound pilots to do something useful instead of stomp around looking impressive, but something that big? Puny little lascannons are not going to make muster. I may be crazy, but I'm not that crazy! Thought for the day: If Brute Force isn't working, you aren't using enough of it. All too true. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsword Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Indeed, which is why I'm getting on the vox and calling in more. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Minigun, that monstrosity right there? That's the point where I stop messing around with Devastators and just use a nuke or something similarly destructive instead of waving my mega-phallic flashlight around. It may be a small nuke, or just telling an Apocalypse-class BB to quit messing around and lance the sucker, or getting the Warhound pilots to do something useful instead of stomp around looking impressive, but something that big? Puny little lascannons are not going to make muster. I may be crazy, but I'm not that crazy! Lascannons work just fine against that sort of thing. Last apocalypse, a bunch of land raiders made short work of a massive legendary squiggoth. We killed it in like 15 shots (though some were twinlinked thanks to being on land raiders), one turn of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Yeah... if your on the ball and have decent cover on the table infantry can be a very nice asset, and cheaper and less visible than vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Taking this topic in a slightly different direction, has anyone tried fielding an army with 3 full sized Dev/Havock squads? I figure for Loyalists it would be a mix of Missiles and Plasma Cannons and Missiles and AutoCannons for Chaos. 12 heavy weapons buried behind 24-30 Marines seems like an incredibly solid fire base and with the flexible nature of the weapons, you're not wasting firepower if you have to target hordes one turn and armor the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Taking this topic in a slightly different direction, has anyone tried fielding an army with 3 full sized Dev/Havock squads?I figure for Loyalists it would be a mix of Missiles and Plasma Cannons and Missiles and AutoCannons for Chaos. 12 heavy weapons buried behind 24-30 Marines seems like an incredibly solid fire base and with the flexible nature of the weapons, you're not wasting firepower if you have to target hordes one turn and armor the next. One of my regular opponents runs this type of SAFH at the 2000-2500 point range. It's nasty the first time you face it, but quickly losses it's shock value after a game or so. Landraider mounted assault units neuter it, as does outflankers/deepstrikers. You definately can't outshoot it unless you're IG, but it's weakness is that it can be tied up in H2H by just about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Yeah... if your on the ball and have decent cover on the table infantry can be a very nice asset, and cheaper and less visible than vehicles. Well, not really cheaper... At least when dev squads are concerned. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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