Reaper AC's in 10 man squads

[minigun762]

In debating the best way to use Terminators, it was pretty clear that the big problem with them is what to do after they deep strike in and melt a tank.

Unless they have a Land Raider, you're unlikely to get them into HtH combat where they can do some extra damage.

 

So I thought of something fairly unorthodox that might help them out.

Take a 10 man squad, give them a Fist weapon or two and some Combi-Weapons. Then instead of the dual Heavy Flamers, take two Reaper AutoCannons.

Deep strike this unit behind enemy lines. Do your typical Termi-cide Melta death squad and fry something important.

On the new turn, start taking rear armor shots at vehicles. 4 TL'd S7 shots should down you some vehicles really quick.

If you can't see any vehicles, target MCs or elite units.

 

The theory here is that you force the enemy to turn around and deal with your Terminators (which isn't exactly easy considering you have 10 of them) or they risk having dakka poured into their rumps each turn and left stranded in the middle of the field.

 

So is my theory-hammer full of holes, or am I onto something possibly?

[Citizen Snips]

Two reapers isn't worth 110 points. Four RAC shots sound nice, but that unit will eat so much fire power on the enemy's turn and most likely kill all of the RAC if not the hole unit. You can cause just as much damage with a cheaper squad of three. Not to mention they are still terminators and can not just be left unchecked in the enemy's line. Best way to run terms is the small suicide squad with 3 combi melta's or close combat ones in a Land Raider.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

If you were to run a 10 man termi unit you'd want it pretty much naked except for maybe an icon of chaos glory and a fist or two. You'd want to take advantage of terminators being fairly inexpensive for what they do. 10 terminators with icon and fist is 320 points. Now sure that is a lot, but considering that they are about as hard to kill as 20 marines its very point efficient. For competitive play you only ever want 3 man termicide. But lots of cheap terminators for massive body saturation isn't bad, it just isn't as good as other stuff and so doesn't qualify for consideration in competitive lists.

[DuskRaider]

I for one fully kit out my Terminators, as they're usually a large part of my force. I often times run 14 Terminators in my Death Guard army (2 squads of 7, I'm a fluff sucker, lol). I use Reaper Autocannons all of the time and I don't see what the hate is all about. I often times mow down entire squads with my Terminators, and the Reaper plays a large part in that. I've used it on lightly armored tanks as well, taking down a Devilfish with one and kill all of the troops inside. Let's see someone do that with a Heavy Flamer <_<

[Brother Nihm]

In debating the best way to use Terminators, it was pretty clear that the big problem with them is what to do after they deep strike in and melt a tank.

Unless they have a Land Raider, you're unlikely to get them into HtH combat where they can do some extra damage.

You can use them to 'threaten' any other nearby units as well as contest objectives.

 

In spite of them being static, 6 Havocs with 3 Autocannons will in almost all cases still outperform two RACs carried by 10 termies.

 

Personally I don't see terminators being viable as HtH or mob-sized units. :wallbash:

[the jeske]

I think we had a talk about it in 4th ed when the dex came out . am not sure [i was then trying to make AL playable ] . First of all 10 termis is a big investment of points because lets face it your not going to run them naked . the unit needs 3 fists and your taking the overcosted reapers.in 1500 games that starts to be 1/3 of the army or close to it. An as every uber unit it suffers from being a single target [i can imagine lash+ 6 oblits blowing up the unit in one turn] . they are also very slow once they land [we dont have shriek to make 10 man termi units viable] and hard to manuver . Not worth it in 4th ed and not worth it now.

[chillin]

I love the idea of a big squad of termi's w/ 2 reapers.

It just isn't viable pointswize, even in friendly/competive play.

You could lessen the pts some by taking 2 units of 3 or 4, each w/ a reaper, and running them as 1 unit, as long as you weren't worried about vic pts.

The reaper is just unfortunately overpriced and the "you need 10 termi's to take 2 of them" rule just sux.

[Sons of Horus]

10 termies is really really expensive and 2 RACs is pretty useless as they'll probably be shot up quickly. termies + deepstrike = fire magnet.

[Askari]

Plus reapers suck. I have no idea why they cost as much as an assault cannon. Combi plasmas and meltas will pretty much always outperform them.

 

But yeah, the best thing to do is run them termicide size at 3-4 men with some combi meltas a powerfist or two and a chaos glory icon. Deepstrikt them, pop a tank's rear armor and then act all threatening. You shouldn't ever pay more than 150 for a unit of deepstriking termies. Use multiple unis to maximize effectiveness and for the enemy to really get worried as they will have to split their fire to take them all out, meaning they'll have to ignore your troops and other units. If they choose to focus on your other units, your termies can run around making attacks of opportunity until your opponent has to deal with them.

[chillin]

Plus reapers suck.

 

I don't agree w/ that. They are great vs lite vehicles and good vs med. vehicles. But yea, I have no idea why they cost as much as a ass. cannon. A reaper should be ap.3. What other str.7 weopon in the game isn't ap.3 :D ??? A reaper can blast through a rino easily, but a marine can take 2 to the head a just continue his day :blush: . At the VERY least a reaper (and all AC's) should be rending.

[minigun762]

Thanks guys for the thoughts. Its pretty much what I expected, grasping at straws to find additional uses for Terminators and the poor Reaper, with the possible exception of the 3 man Terminator squad with 2 naked Terminators and a Reaper. Poor Man's Dakka Predator. :devil:

 

I keep trying to dig through the crap in hopes of finding a useful little nugget of goodness. Looks like this attempt is still just crap. :cuss

[SquirrelKing]

What other str.7 weopon in the game isn't ap.3 :D ???

 

tau missile pod, exact same stats as autocannon IIRC

 

At the VERY least a reaper (and all AC's) should be rending.

 

so true, I was wishing for this when they changed the ass-cannon's stats in fourth... :lol:

[chillin]

What other str.7 weopon in the game isn't ap.3 :D ???

 

tau missile pod, exact same stats as autocannon IIRC

 

 

Does a tau missle pod cost 25 pts ?

Is it the only long range weop that unit can have ?

[SquirrelKing]

Does a tau missle pod cost 25 pts ?

Is it the only long range weop that unit can have ?

 

Nope and nope.

 

Any other easy questions? :)

[Corpse.]

Well I always prefer the excuse "Just because". In this context: "Just because I'm taking so many termies, I may as well take something to give them an extra slap at long range". Just remember what the other 9 terminators are supposed to do, if you try to shoot something thats not in assault range while something else is within charge distance.

 

Though I never really use reapers anymore, due to the cost and the range of the terminators averaging 12" and below. Range termies are best kept to the loyalists.

 

If you run 3 termies just to take a land raider as an elite transport, then I can justify the use of a reaper just for the ranged support.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

What other str.7 weopon in the game isn't ap.3 :D ???

 

Tau Missile Pod, as mentioned.

Autocannons, and all variants thereof (including Hydras, Exterminators, etc.)

Lootas.

Krootox guns.

some Tyranid stuff.

Maybe some DE stuff.

[GunnarRedsun]

personally on my non deep striking terminaters (and yes i run them, and no not with a land raider) i use them. i like to poke at opponents and hope to get a reaction. but i never run 2 in a unit. heck i never run that unit over 5 guys. but i do still use them, every once in a while. still i find it has its uses. the biggest reason is people forget about it, and ignore it. i know it sounds stupid, but they do, and it will off times give me side or rear armor around turn 2 or 3. and thats usually all i need. but then again i also don't usually run terms outside of planet strike any more, unless they are a body guard, and even then i don't run them that often. but really the only thing they have going is their range, and the str 7. they are mediocre at best, and i would certainly never factor them into my strategy much, but they are fun every once in a while (but then again i have a great love of all autocannons (which is why my wolves still use their leman russ exterminator) from way to long in the guard). any wolf, i hope it helps some to know there are still people out there that use them.

[chillin]

What other str.7 weopon in the game isn't ap.3 :lol: ???

 

Maybe some DE stuff.

 

No DE stuff

[Prot]

Minigun,

 

I know why you're doing this. Basically it would be very 'Iron Warriory' to have such a unit. And I've tried it more than a few times myself.

 

I came to the conclusion that we know this very expensive unit will mostly likely not make its points back, but can it fill a role that justifies the cost? Unfortunately it can't hold anything in 5th ed, but it can obviously contest.

 

I've tried this unit and it just takes up too much room for what it does, plus as mentioned it's a fire magnet. I have used it with the Tzeentch Icon to some great effect loaded with plasma combi's. Very strong, but needs vital staying power. My Iron Warriory loadout was about 6-8 of these guys, Icon of Tzeentch and as many Plasma Combi's I could afford. Not bad... it had its moments.

[minigun762]

Minigun,

 

I know why you're doing this. Basically it would be very 'Iron Warriory' to have such a unit. And I've tried it more than a few times myself.

 

I came to the conclusion that we know this very expensive unit will mostly likely not make its points back, but can it fill a role that justifies the cost? Unfortunately it can't hold anything in 5th ed, but it can obviously contest.

 

Yeah, its very difficult to invest alot of points into anything that isn't scoring these days.

Not to say that the emphasis on Troops isn't a good thing, I'm VERY happy that the days of min-max Troop squads and super Elites of death are gone, but it feels like the pendulum might have swayed too much in the other direction.

 

 

If you run 3 termies just to take a land raider as an elite transport, then I can justify the use of a reaper just for the ranged support.

Corpse. Thats not a bad idea really. I used to be a fan of the Land Raider but I've moved away from it in my recent armies, just too big and expensive when you have the cheap little Rhino.

However a little Dakka squad to park in cover as their Land Raider runs around isn't a bad buy.

[Corpse.]

Not to mention you can use that land raider for your troops now, like the lone heavy support. Very heavy support-ish, you've got 6 "heavy supports" now, I've always preached that to IW players.

 

Edit-

Not to be mistaken, taking 3 raider-termi units in elites, take 3 decent but cheap heavy supports, and troops will have 3 raiders to truck them around but be unable to arrive/start inside the raiders. You can still deep strike the terminators if you prefer termicide+raiders. (Long discussion ruled out deep strike bears nothing on the raider coming in as reserves or on the table as the terminators dont accompany it *in reserves* as par the rules, they arrive via Deep Strike)