Lysander or Vulkan?

[doom66]

i have been thinking who is a better close combat hero. Vulkan or Lysander. Vulkan is a nice supporting hero with modest power. however he is not immune to instant death.One of my heart stoping moments was at the grand final my Sicarius instant deathed by bloody fist.now Vulkan has a 3 inv save which makes him very hide to kill instant death.on the other hand the is Lysander who is Eternal warrior and has 4 wounds!!!!! also he has an storm shield. still he has to be deployed with a unit of assult terminators to be effective.so my fello marines what is your opinion? :huh:

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Vulkan. Instant death but burns and melts everything (don't ever let him cook dinner).

 

Lysander. No Instant death and Uber Hammer.

 

Therefore, in close combat at least, Lysander > Vulkan :huh:

[Ice warrior]

i don't really see the point putting lysander to team of assault termies...

A) lysander has a bolter drill -> assault termies have no bolters :P. It's like take a vulkan to army where is no flamers or meltas.

:huh: Unit of 5 thunder hammer terminators and Lysander is overkill. Better to use lysander with units like stern guard or shooty termies. If no reason to use bolter drill -> lysander will charge...

[Giga]

Vulkan is da best because he improves the entire army AND he strikes at initiative, AND he gets to reroll one miss and one failed to-wound roll, AND he gets a TL heavy flamer before he assaults, AND he strikes at str6, AND he improves the entire army. Did I mention he improves the entire army? :)

 

Seriously though, as a pure fighter character, lysander is ofc better, but the huge benefits from having Vulkan aren't limited to close combat.

 

Also, with assault terminators, I'd take Vulkan any day. His ability to drop a HF template and strike at I5 means A LOT to the terminators, because it lowers the amount of saves the th/ss termies are going to have to pass before they even get to swing their hammers. Oh and, th/ss termies with Vulkan get to reroll one failed roll to hit each.

[Gornall]

Vulkan can hold his own in H2H, but if you need something dead, then Lysander is your man. I agree with what was said earlier where Vulkan is better with Assault Termies because he provides high initative attacks before they literally drop the hammer. Lysander provides both better shooting and offensive punch to SGVs or Tactical Termies. Often Lysander will make an enemy think twice before charging a group of Sternguard. That and a S10 hammer wrecks both vehicles and Warbosses alike.

[kaiserstole20]

Lysander's Stubborn rule might be his best asset. I usually play with Lysander + 10 Terminators w/2x CML. It's a lot of points but very durable and kicks out a lot of firepower for a move and shoot unit. By the time you get to something to smash you have Lysander and a bunch of power fists.

[c-wrex]

Don't neglect Vulkan's ability to fire the heavy flamer before he charges in with that I5 +2 str death stick of his. He can fight larger units by himself by measure of his ability to roast before carving...

[Gornall]

Yeah... Vulkan can chew up hordes, but Lysander's ability to wound everything in the game on 2's makes him an ideal monster slayer.

[avatar8481]

Try Lysander with a unit of GKT...they get to shoot their storm bolters and strike at initiative w/S6 power weapons. Lysander's there to kill the dreads and tanks and it's all good. Termie chaplain makes them a huge swinging rock unit.

[tastytaste]

In joining the Echo chamber.

 

Lysander for brutal alpha strike

 

Vulkan for overall utility.

 

I perfer Lysander just because everyone is on the Vulkan reroll train.

[Ming]

In a fair fight, Vulkan vs Lysander - If Vulkan gets the charge, I dont have the codex here, so correct me if I'm wrong - he can fire the flamer on the way in, causing a wound, but Lysander gets a 2/3 chance to not take a wound. Vulkan then attacks with his S6 I5 weapon, something like 5 attacks, Hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, with rerolls, causes like 2 wounds on Lysander after his 3+ saves, taking him down to 2 or 3 wounds remaining. Lysander then, with a gleam in his eye, swinges the hammer at I1, 4 attacks, S10. Rolls 4s to hit, 2 hit, 2 wounds (unless he rolls 1s), 1 wound misses a save, and Vulkan is a pulpy mess on the business end of the hammer.

 

I'd have to say that Lysander would win.

 

The only characters he is not likely to beat in the game in HTH that I know of off the top of my head are Calgar and Ghazghul and Khârn, and these might have to go 2 rounds or more for a victory. Any other character would have to cause like 8 power weapon wounds on the charge to have any reasonable (bad luck excepted) chance.

[Ice warrior]

The only characters he is not likely to beat in the game in HTH that I know of off the top of my head are Calgar and Ghazghul and Khârn, and these might have to go 2 rounds or more for a victory. Any other character would have to cause like 8 power weapon wounds on the charge to have any reasonable (bad luck excepted) chance.

I would change Calgar to Abaddon... Calgars poor invunerable is no use against lysander

And there is lot of people who can take lysander down, in fair hand to hand combat :P socrerer with gift of chaos and nightbringer for example.

 

For my opinion vulkan is not a good cc hero. If not eternal warrior or <t5, Better to stick up with a bodyguard, cos you're going down in CC.

[Giga]

For my opinion vulkan is not a good cc hero. If not eternal warrior or <t5, Better to stick up with a bodyguard, cos you're going down in CC.

Vulkan is an awesome CC hero. You just gotha be careful how you position him (in assaulting always place him more then 2" (3" is best to avoid arguments) from that hidden power fist, so that way it won't be able to single you out), and think of him as a predator sort of character - he's best when he prays on the weak. You can safely send him to solo entire squads of necron warriors, loyalist marines without powerfists, entire regiments of guardsmen (even if they got a power fist, it's only strength 6, hur hur hur), tau fire warriors, lootas, zoanthropes, etc.

 

Usually, he gets to attack first, kills 2-4 dudes (his master crafted weapon and digital weps help a lot here) and then relies on his 2+ save to survive the weak reprise. After that, he almost invariably manages to perform a sweeping advance, which is something lysander sadly can't do.