Dealing with thunder hammer-storm shield teminators

[Gentlemanloser]

Did his two LR not MM your LR? So his TH/SS Termies could (hopefully) Assault the now vulnerable squad in the smoking ruins of your LR?

 

Why did he unload his Termies to let them assault your LR instead?

[SamaNagol]

He took 1 GH and one Redeemer. And a MM only has roughly a 1 in 4 chance of turning a LR into a smoking ruin anyway. :)

[avatar8481]

at point blank (melta) range the melta has a 21% chance of a 5 or 6 damage result. By far the best chance of any weapon in the game.

 

I actually played an IG footslgger list with a version of number6's GK list (now also my GK list since it was awesome)

 

2 GKT squads in crusaders

2 IST squads with dual melta in chimera (Hull HF)

1 Inq lord with MM HB HB servitors, mystic and Incin on the Lord (in chimeras with hull HF)

 

1750

 

His foot sloggers list just died and died, but the point I was going towards was that the MM on the Crusaders was actually more effective than the melta on the ISTs since you could move 12 and still shoot it (same as a speeder actually) and the crusaders were all moving forward anyway. it was actually funny using the LR tactically the same way I would normally use speeders in my Marine army.

[Daedalus Templarius]

My 1s on command continued to impress during a big game on saturday (4 players, 2k pts each). My LRC which was holding Vulkan and an Assault termie squad managed to shrug off the fire from a LR, and 3 MMs... only to be destroyed by a termie mounted assault cannon.

 

This dropped my Assault termies and Vulkan out in a bad place, in which i lost 3/5 of the squad to shooting from only a few targets... didn't even have to use invuln saves. At least after that they made some points back, and managed to not get wiped out for the rest of the game. Probably because another LR full of PAGK was backing them up. Although that LR managed to get smoked later on by a MM.

 

On the other side of the table my GK-LRR full of GKT and my GM managed to clean up all sorts of stuff, since all the anti-armor was busy with my other 2 LRs way over on the other side.

 

But yea, I love rolling 1s.

[SamaNagol]

at point blank (melta) range the melta has a 21% chance of a 5 or 6 damage result. By far the best chance of any weapon in the game.

 

Which would mean that 4 out of 5 times those TH/SS Terminators getting out of their Crusader will still be knocking on the door with their particularly large hammers and at worst immobilising it? So you are still most likely to get the counter charge at them, statistically speaking.

 

Although today I had a remaining 3 TH/SS Sallies with Vulkan climb out of a Redeemer and do nothing to my Land Raider. When I got out and shot them I actually managed to kill all 3 Terminators with the hail of Storm Bolter and Lascannon fire. Vulkan then proceeded to shrug off all the attacks from a unit of 7 PAGK. His armour is pretty rock hard.

[Ozybonza]

I'm a big fan of masses of Storm bolter/Bolter fire.

 

I play Gk and also play Deathwing, and it's not plasma/Melta I'm scared of - it's rapid firing. Force me to roll enough dice, there will be plenty of 1s.

[Justicar Valius]

This is why i love GKT so much apart from the really kool models.

[SamaNagol]

I tried out GKT today. One thing I did like is the fact that it helps out in Annihilation twofold. Firstly it is one less KP as the Brother Captain and GKT count as one unit. Secondly it protects that KP better as you cannot target the one wound BC in combat.

 

Played 3 games and won 2 Annihilations. But I drew an objective game with 5 objectives. I find it very difficult to actually hold enough objectives with only 2 troops.

[Chengar Qordath]

at point blank (melta) range the melta has a 21% chance of a 5 or 6 damage result. By far the best chance of any weapon in the game.

 

Which would mean that 4 out of 5 times those TH/SS Terminators getting out of their Crusader will still be knocking on the door with their particularly large hammers and at worst immobilising it? So you are still most likely to get the counter charge at them, statistically speaking.

Well, most people have more than one melta weapon in their army, and fire that weapon more than a single time, and have AT weapons besides meltas as well. A Land Raider full of Assault Terminators is going to be a top priority target for melta-equipped units, and while one melta probably wouldn't kill a Raider 4-6 have much odds. That's not to mention any other AT weaponry that would be aiming at the Raider.

[SamaNagol]

I was referring to the chance of OUR Land Raider getting popped by the MM on a LRC delivering TH/SS termies to our doorstep!

[Rathnard]

Okay, so what if GKTs aren't an option, such as when you're using Witch Hunters? :lol:

 

Here's some math-hammer for Arcoflaggelants - the unit probably most capable of taking on th/ss terminators:

 

Round 1: 6 Arcos charge vs 5 TH/SS Termies

Average 24 attacks, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 2 Dead after inv.

3 TH/SS termies return for 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 1.25 or ~1 dead after inv.

 

Round 2: 3 TH/SS vs. 5 Arcos

5 Arcos average 17.5 attacks, 8.75 hits, 4.38 wounds, 1.45 or ~1 dead after inv.

2 TH/SS termies return for 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1.67 wounds, 0.83 or ~1 dead after inv.

 

Round 3: 2 TH/SS vs. 4 Arcos

4 Arcos average 14 attacks, 7 hits, 3.5 wounds, 1.17 or ~1 dead after inv.

1 TH/SS termie returns for 2 attacks, 1 hit, 0.83 wounds, 0.42 or 0-1 dead after inv.

 

So all other things being equal (inc. flaggelant death from rolling 6's), the arcoflaggelants are an even match for TH/SS terminators. Given the variability in the flaggelants performace it's definitely not an ideal situation - you'd really want to even things up with plasma fire, but then you're devoting even more points into killing a unit when you should really be trying to take on the rest of the army too.

 

No, I think the best option is to simply tie them up. Feed a expendible unit or two into them while you take apart the rest of the list. In a 2000pt list, a TH/SS unit plus Land Raider is a good quarter of their army. In kill point missions, other targets are going to be much easier for yielding points, and the TH/SS unit can only contest one objective, so let them have that one while you focus on the rest.

[Gentlemanloser]

Firstly it is one less KP as the Brother Captain and GKT count as one unit

 

If you're talking aobut the HQ BC and a Retinue of GKT, IIRC once both are dead, they count as two kill points. You just don't get the second (or any? Can't remember that...) until both are dead.

[SamaNagol]

Yeh, I was going to come back and edit that. Was my mistake, you are right.