When do you use Power Weapon Champions?

[minigun762]

I'd say 90% of the time if you have an Aspiring Champion in a squad, that they're packing a Power Fist.

That being said, is there any time its worthwhile to take the Power Weapon instead?

 

I thought of 3 scenarios were it might be worthwhile

 

1) Berserkers in a Land Raider. You should almost always get to charge so you're making full benefit of Furious Charge.

2) Assault Noise Marines or Slaaneshi CSMs. I5 seems wasted when you're using a Power Fist.

3) CSMs with dual Flamers. Unit should be attacking weak horde, where Power Fist is too slow and overkill.

 

But I could be entirely off base here.

[DuskRaider]

I prefer them with my Berserkers, as I'll probably be attacking first and with 5 potential wounds on a charge, it's usually worth it. I'll go with a plasma pistol for kick just before assaulting, and then go into it.

[the jeske]

never . the only place where power weapons may be viable are in aLR rush build with zerkers and even there taking a fist is still a good choice . str 4 just doesnt cut it in w40k. not with the number of attacks asp champions have.

[Retalitus]

I've been thinking the same question myself recently. Recently, I seem to automatically pick powerfists on my Champs, and no longer even consider power weapons. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm interested to see if some folks in this thread can show me the error of my ways!

 

My reasoning behind using powerfists has been to give every squad extra bite against armoured opponents, to make my opponent worry that there is something in every single troop choice I field that has the potential to take out their precious vehicles. I might be unlucky, but every time I've picked a standard power weapon in a squad in the past, I've always been presented with an opportunity where it could have really helped against a tank.

 

I can totally see the reasoning in a LR-rushing 'Zerker squad, where you want every attack to really count on the charge! In my view (albeit as a not-too-experienced player), my use of 'Zerkers is very focused... when I play them, I know exactly who they're going after - generally key enemy troops, elites, HQs etc. So, thinking about it that way, it's rare that they're going to be after targets of opportunity, where the power fist could come in handy. Hmmm... time to change that list I put together earlier! Reckon it matters if they're in a rhino, rather than a LR...?

 

My general CSMs, however, I play differently. Even when they've got dual flamers for anti-horde duty, it's still useful to have some anti-armour capability in that squad. These guys are my army's backbone, and I like to keep them versatile. I guess this would be different if anyone is using an army where every troop choice is a 'Zerker though...

 

I can't comment on their use in NM squads, or those with MoS, as I never use them myself. I can see your point though! Those extra I5 attacks ignoring armour would come in useful!

[Brother Amarel]

I think it's worth it in a Slaaneshi-marked squad so as not to waste the initiative.

 

I don't agree that they're not worth taking in Flamer squads - the PF is back-up for anything nasty amongst the horde.

[chillin]

I always take a PW champ in LR brzrkrs.

I sometimes take a PW champ in 2 plaz squads (more often no champ at all though).

I've never taken a 2 flamer squad, so I don't know whether I would take a PW champ there (I always take melta/flamer & PF champ).

[minigun762]

I'm hearing that

 

Slaaneshi squads are good canidates for Power Weapons due to I5.

Berserkers are so-so canidates for Power Weapons as it depends on getting that charge in.

CSMs should be packing Power Fists or nothing at all (in the case of dual Plasma squads)

[Brother Amarel]

Well I'm now getting used to the following two units as the core of my force:

 

10 Rhino-mounted CSM with Chaos Glory (A/C = PF, 2 Flamers)

10 Rhino-mounted CSM with Icon of Slaanesh (A/C = PW & Combi-Melta, 2 Meltaguns)

 

They can both deal with most threats and they're varied enough to be interesting (although perhaps not optimised).

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

I run PW on all my squads and I'm not missin the PF(yea dreads kinda suck but I tr to just shoot em with meltas before I get in melee).

[Corpse.]

Chosen Outflanking (though they arent champions, using IoK or IoS).

Cheap Terminator Squad.

Havocs with 4 flamers and combi-flamer champ.

A lucky roll on possessed, and having a "power weapon added" on top of having a CCW, they get +1 attack with that roll.

 

I use plenty of power weapons from time to time. My old cliche is using large possessed units, and I mean squads of 20 with a 1or2 Sorc/Lord escort. This comes from wraithlords charging me with mindwar removing all my champions, even if its up to 9+ they all die to it (two mindwars inside a falcon is a very mean tactic used often here). So 2 Wraithlord/2Mindwar+Falcon (or bike farseers and 3 wraithlords) made me turn to possessed, that end up wiping half the eldar on their own most of the time. $Even if the rest of the army doesnt fare as well. Eldar hate large squads that spread thin getting 4+ cover, 5+ inv save, 5 toughness from icon + 2 HQ's that require 6 successful mindwars to remove(and more due to inv saves).

 

Vindacre assassin+telion+MoTF+dreadnought lists starting to poke out now too, annoying as hell... And now str5 doesnt cut it and the possessed lack krak grenades, so now another problem if those eldar players switch to their AoBR armies..... (Two are doing this so far and more say they will, damn~)

 

 

Well enough of my problems... I pack more power weapons then a loyalist marine player usually does so I dont have a problem with them. Lots of bloodletters in my C:CD, and traitor guard 50-man platoons with 5 commisars and lots of power weapons.

[chillin]

I run PW on all my squads and I'm not missin the PF(yea dreads kinda suck but I tr to just shoot em with meltas before I get in melee).

 

I think the threat of a dread getting in hth with each and everyone of your troops is way over estimated be alot of people.

I'm always reading how you have to take a PF in each one of your squads b/c if a dread gets into hth with your squad, they are all tied down and dead. I can't remember the last time a dread got into combat with one of my squads that didn't have a PF. I usually shoot them 1st. That being said, I haven't played against any droppod codex s/m's since the new s/m dex.

[Askari]

The thing is that the things that benefit from initiative like noise marines, slaanesh marines, and raider zerkers only benefit against Initiative 4 opponents. While MEQ's are the most common opponents, power weapons are equal to power fists against them. Against Initiative 3 or less opponents, you should be able to kill most of them with you regular marines' attacks. Against Initiative 5 you'll be striking at the same time and will so will only benefit from the initiative if the enemy wipes out the squad, or at least the champ, otherwise the fist will e about equal, though slightly less effective against T3 opponents.

 

The thing is, there's never an occasion where power weapons outshine fists by a large margin outside of IC's. Though there are a few situations where power weapons are slightly more effective than fists, there are many more scenarios where power weapons can't wound opponents consistently or at all like walkers and monstrous creatures. Plus, powerfists can instant-kill most ICs and have a slight chance at taking out heavy armored vehicles and are much better at taking out vehicles than krak grenades since you'll always get at least twice as many attacks.

 

But then, I'm pretty biased. I play orks a lot and their army is based totally around hidden powerfists. I've pretty much come to the decision that powerfists are a necessity for any st4 base army that can take them (ok, that's basically just marines and orks but that makes my point no less valid.)

[the jeske]

well the thing is NM are not very good candidates for a asp champion or going hth.

 

I think the threat of a dread getting in hth with each and everyone of your troops is way over estimated be alot of people.

I'm always reading how you have to take a PF in each one of your squads b/c if a dread gets into hth with your squad, they are all tied down and dead. I can't remember the last time a dread got into combat with one of my squads that didn't have a PF. I usually shoot them 1st. That being said, I haven't played against any droppod codex s/m's since the new s/m dex.

well you must be lucky with melta guns then . I sometimes dont blow those drop dreads and have to charge them to not get tar pited or stop them from contesting objectives. Also there is not just dreads . there is biker builds for loyalists and pms [str 4 power weapons suck against anything with t5 or more] demon prince both from chaos sm and chaos demon dexs . + its still getter to have a chance to instant kill an HQ then put 1 or less wound on it . And there are also biker nobz ... a power weapon even with 4 attacks wont kill a nob , a fist with 3 attacks can.

[Smurfalypse]

I dont think i would even use a power weapon on any of our troop choices instead of a power fist. The str 4/8 difference is so huge that you are probably going to kill less than the power fist over the course of a few CC's. If you are worried about horde stuff with any unit and take the power weapon because of that, i still think its very much a waste. All of our units are fairly good in CC and lets face it we are gonig to get double+triple the amount of attacks against marines and most other standard units. Noise marines have a pile of different options for infantry wreckage (sonic blasters, blastmasters, doomsiren), not to mention 3 attacks on the charge at init 5. I just think its very much overkill to just add a power weapon, when you can have the versitility of the power fist. At least this way you have a reliable answer to monstrous creatures, vehicles, independent characters.

 

Just my two cents.

[JamesI]

I used to run power weapons on champs, but lately have changed them all to fists. Never regret having that fist (but I don't use Noise Marines or Khorne Berserkers either)

[xsuicidekingx]

I rarely use power fists at all, and usually only 1 in a tank hunter squad with 2 melta. Power weapons are on almost any champion in my army, and it has done me well.

[minigun762]

The thing is that the things that benefit from initiative like noise marines, slaanesh marines, and raider zerkers only benefit against Initiative 4 opponents. While MEQ's are the most common opponents, power weapons are equal to power fists against them. Against Initiative 3 or less opponents, you should be able to kill most of them with you regular marines' attacks. Against Initiative 5 you'll be striking at the same time and will so will only benefit from the initiative if the enemy wipes out the squad, or at least the champ, otherwise the fist will e about equal, though slightly less effective against T3 opponents.

I think there is also a solid benefit against I5 units (like Banshees). Being able to hit at the same time means you do full damage to the opponent, instead of losing 1/2 your squad then striking back. However against anything else, the I bonus is useless.

 

The thing is, there's never an occasion where power weapons outshine fists by a large margin outside of IC's. Though there are a few situations where power weapons are slightly more effective than fists, there are many more scenarios where power weapons can't wound opponents consistently or at all like walkers and monstrous creatures. Plus, powerfists can instant-kill most ICs and have a slight chance at taking out heavy armored vehicles and are much better at taking out vehicles than krak grenades since you'll always get at least twice as many attacks.

Thats part of my thinking for wanting to put a Power Weapon on an anti-horde unit. Wounding against T3 means your Power Weapon is going to be hitting almost as hard as the Power Fist with the bonus of more attacks and going first/same time. However as you move to T4 and higher, the Power Fist is just more killy most of the time and especially so against armor/MCs.

[Smurfalypse]

The thing is that the things that benefit from initiative like noise marines, slaanesh marines, and raider zerkers only benefit against Initiative 4 opponents. While MEQ's are the most common opponents, power weapons are equal to power fists against them. Against Initiative 3 or less opponents, you should be able to kill most of them with you regular marines' attacks. Against Initiative 5 you'll be striking at the same time and will so will only benefit from the initiative if the enemy wipes out the squad, or at least the champ, otherwise the fist will e about equal, though slightly less effective against T3 opponents.

I think there is also a solid benefit against I5 units (like Banshees). Being able to hit at the same time means you do full damage to the opponent, instead of losing 1/2 your squad then striking back. However against anything else, the I bonus is useless.

 

The thing is, there's never an occasion where power weapons outshine fists by a large margin outside of IC's. Though there are a few situations where power weapons are slightly more effective than fists, there are many more scenarios where power weapons can't wound opponents consistently or at all like walkers and monstrous creatures. Plus, powerfists can instant-kill most ICs and have a slight chance at taking out heavy armored vehicles and are much better at taking out vehicles than krak grenades since you'll always get at least twice as many attacks.

Thats part of my thinking for wanting to put a Power Weapon on an anti-horde unit. Wounding against T3 means your Power Weapon is going to be hitting almost as hard as the Power Fist with the bonus of more attacks and going first/same time. However as you move to T4 and higher, the Power Fist is just more killy most of the time and especially so against armor/MCs.

 

Against horde armies you would probably stop to rapid fire instead of actually assaulting or at least bolt pistol before you run in to help lessen the amount you will be facing. T-3 like eldar and comparable units you would definitely hold up and rapid fire instead of charging in, against horde T-4 you would pistol your way in and slam into them (orks). I just cant justify a power weapon against anyone really. Even zerkers have a pistol will just annihilate any horde unit. Sucks to admit it, but the fact is the power weapon just doesnt do it for the vast majority of game situations.

[Askari]

The thing is there are only three types of T3 opponents:

 

Guard: You'll be doing serious damage no matter what. And will really have to worry more about overkill than not killing enough.

 

Nids: You're unlikely to get the charge meaning you'll probably be rapid firing to thin them down before they reach you since the extra bolter shots will do better than a few extra cc attacks. I believe they're i4 so you'll be hitting simultaneously with the power weapon and the fist's I1 isn't as much of a drawback. If you were playing loyalist you might need the extra power attack (wouldn't help much though) but you're chaos so everyone is getting at least two attacks and you'll either be winning the combat anyway or your opponent will be winning the assault anyway so the extra attack isn't worth much. Once you deal with the little bugs you'll have to deal with the big ones and all our troop mounted anti-mc weapons require you to get within charge range, meaning you'll need the fist.

 

Sisters: Power weapon actually comes in handy here, especially on a skull champ. But they aren't the most common army or the strongest in close combat so trading the power weapon in an all-comers list isn't really worth it.

 

Eldar: Small squad sizes means That unless your squads been heavily thinned down the extra attack won't be of much need, I5+ means rarely useful those of our units that can get I5 will either be doing enough damage in combat from regular attacks (zerkers) or shouldn't be in combat unless they shot and thinned them out enough to win or will lose combat with or without a power weapon (NM's and Slaanesh marines).

[Lord Humongous]

My berserkers have and will continue to have powerfists. I use my berserkers to grab and hold objectives, and in several games I've had to deal with tanks that tried to contest the objective. The powerfists probably won those games for me; berserkers just don't have any other good way of handling tanks that doesn't cost even more and / or reduce the units effectiveness.

 

I'm not really worried about "loosing the bonus" for furious charge. Firstly, against those tanks, I'm getting a strength 9 powerfist. Secondly, the berserkers themselves pump out so many wounds that I'm not to worried about getting hit back... although I suppose forcing wound allocation onto special models more often might be nice. Though by the same token, but putting out al your wounds in one batch, wound allocation might allow "staking up" those power weapon wounds.

 

A lucky roll on possessed, and having a "power weapon added" on top of having a CCW, they get +1 attack with that roll.

 

Where do you get this from? The possessed have one CCW. The damonkin table entry for a roll of 6 says "Power Weapon. A shimering Daemonic Aura surrounds the weapons of the possessed." To me its uite clear that they do not gain any new weapon, but simply the one that each has now functions as a power weapon.

[farseerixirvost]

My 'forward ranging' units get PF. My static units get PW. PW is cheaper and in this case, is more of a "just in case they reach me" piece of kit. I usually try for 3 of the former and 2 of the latter.

 

 

edit: agree w/ Lord H; Possessed do not gain +1A w/ a roll of 6 on the table.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Where do you get this from? The possessed have one CCW. The damonkin table entry for a roll of 6 says "Power Weapon. A shimering Daemonic Aura surrounds the weapons of the possessed." To me its uite clear that they do not gain any new weapon, but simply the one that each has now functions as a power weapon.

 

This is correct.

 

The +1 attack is a myth that does not hold up if you scrutinize the wording of the rule.

[Spacefrisian]

I go with powerfists most of the time. Though if i would take a Powerweapon i would most likely add in some Melta bombs as well. You never know when you would need them.

[Zhukov]

I never use Powerswords. Reasons for it are already given above.

[SquirrelKing]

You know what? I use them because I think they look cool... :)