MechSpacewulf Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I went after a Canifex and and nailed him with Moonfang and discovered the hive mind rule that Nids are immune to weapons that double the creatures toughness. The rule for Moonfang does causes instant death on a roll of 6 to wound which I did... i was getting tabled so he gave me the kill for a little moral victory but how should this have actually been played? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmsniper Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Instant Death occurs when the strength is double the toughness. Any instance where someone causes "instant death" like moonfang or a force weapon is treated as if the S was double the T even though it really is not. So the fex would have simply taken the wound if the save was failed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2073024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonoshi Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 In the Tyranid FaQ, they have an erratta for Insta-Death while in Synapse. They ignore Insta-death effects. Unfortunately you would have done 1 wound, but at least the guy was cool. Edit: Outside of Synapse, it would be quite possible to Insta-Death a Carnifex with various special weapons that can cause Insta-Death regardless of the target's toughness. In synapse range = 1 Wound, Out of Synapse = Dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2073026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechSpacewulf Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Thanks, that's what I thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2073031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I think you missed what Tonoshi said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2075063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Brother Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Just for reference, the Carnifex is not a synapse creature. If he was not within range of synapse creature, he would have been subjet to the insta-death rule and would heave perished with your wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2075324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackbar Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Just for reference, the Carnifex is not a synapse creature. If he was not within range of synapse creature, he would have been subjet to the insta-death rule and would heave perished with your wound. ^This Carnifexes can operate out of synapse just fine, so some players use them out of synapse and forget that they lose the protection against instant death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2075442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veidin Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Only weapon I know of that can do it is a GK GM's force weapon does not inflict Instant Death but "Slays outright." That weapon bypasses all rules to negate instant death like Immortal Warrior etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2075449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 @veidin true, and yippee for badly written, inconsistent, never updated rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2075576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veidin Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Trust me bud Id LOVE an updated Codex for my GK's. ;) Like a better Storm shield instead of the crummy 4+ Invuln in CC against one opponent. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2075686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Only weapon I know of that can do it is a GK GM's force weapon does not inflict Instant Death but "Slays outright." That weapon bypasses all rules to negate instant death like Immortal Warrior etc. Eldar: Dire Avengers have Direswords as a seargent upgrade and it bypasses eternal warrior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2076015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Only weapon I know of that can do it is a GK GM's force weapon does not inflict Instant Death but "Slays outright." That weapon bypasses all rules to negate instant death like Immortal Warrior etc. Eldar: Dire Avengers have Direswords as a seargent upgrade and it bypasses eternal warrior. Yeap, though it wont help with the fexes as synaps will still protect from the direswords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2076092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilnar Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 only if theres a synapse creature in range, fexes arnt automatically synapse creatures Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2076751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Instant Death occurs when the strength is double the toughness. Any instance where someone causes "instant death" like moonfang or a force weapon is treated as if the S was double the T even though it really is not.So the fex would have simply taken the wound if the save was failed. i think this is incorrect, instant death occurs for various reasons, the one which is referenced is double strength. All other things causing instant death do not "count as being twice the toughness", they simply cause ID. Although I might be wrong, :rolleyes:, ultimately it probably doesn't matter to much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Sasha Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 And while we're talking Instant death... Does Khan's ID sword ignore Sammael's ID-proof Adamantine cloak? Again, a case of " 'Instant Death' " versus " instant death " Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 And while we're talking Instant death...Does Khan's ID sword ignore Sammael's ID-proof Adamantine cloak? Again, a case of " 'Instant Death' " versus " instant death " i dont think capitalization matters, if the cape makes him immune from "instant death" and khans sword causes instant death then he is immune Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yeah... thats the kind of rules lawyering that could get you expelled from tournaments and friendly games man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosis Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I am unclear on the exact definition of Instant Death as per the 5th edition rulebook. Does it specifically say that anything with this rule counts as being double toughness of its target? I don't have my 5th ed. on hand. I used to swear that I couldn't force weapon Tyranid Synapse creatures because of their immunity to instant death.. Recently, however, I've been convinced (by Tyranid players, believe it or not) that I can in fact force weapon a synapse creature because of Page 28, Nids codex: Synapse creatures are "immune to the effects of Instant Death caused by weapons with a strength double the creature's toughness" All this talk of Instant Death makes me feel like I'm just re-wording what's been discussed, but any clarification would help my group and I out a lot. -Pho Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I am unclear on the exact definition of Instant Death as per the 5th edition rulebook. Does it specifically say that anything with this rule counts as being double toughness of its target? I don't have my 5th ed. on hand. I used to swear that I couldn't force weapon Tyranid Synapse creatures because of their immunity to instant death.. Recently, however, I've been convinced (by Tyranid players, believe it or not) that I can in fact force weapon a synapse creature because of Page 28, Nids codex: Synapse creatures are "immune to the effects of Instant Death caused by weapons with a strength double the creature's toughness" All this talk of Instant Death makes me feel like I'm just re-wording what's been discussed, but any clarification would help my group and I out a lot. -Pho The Nid FAQ changes it to being immune to all instant death. Page 28 – The Hive Mind and Synapse Creatures,second bullet point. The second sentence should be changed as follows: Tyranids within Synapse range as described above (including the Synapse Creature itself) are not affected by the Instant Death rule. Note that this does not apply to Ripper Swarms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosis Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for the detailed reply, I'll read up in the book for all this, and get our Niddly players to have the updated FAQs. -Pho Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2080945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 And just a note... You *used* to actually be able to FW a 'nid within synapse range. They *used* to not be Instant Death triggering weapons, but merely 'slew outright'. Which was ruled to not be the same thing. You were selling yourself short, back then, in 4E. However, as pointed out, all FW (except GKGM's) trigger ID now in 5E. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2081800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosis Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thanks for the extra tidbit of information- Hope that other Tsons players/Tyranid players see this topic -Pho! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175403-instant-kill-and-nids/#findComment-2082316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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