best use for tacticals

[Demoulius]

hail brothers,

 

i tend to use my tactical squads with rhinos, fists and plasmaguns acompanied by an mechanised army. i find them to be highly mobile (unless the rhinos are popped obviously) and when you combine the fire of 2 or more squads capable of killing just about anything :down: the fists make sure they can tackle anything big and gribbly that attacks them and gives them decent AT in close combat.

 

that aside ive also tried footslogging tactical squads with heavy bolters and a plasmagun whom only fired once because of terrain block TLOS and got killed off in close combat soon afterwards. ive used a squad with missle launcher, plas and missle to just about no effect at all. firing at tanks negates the rest of the unit whilst rapid firing the plas and bolters makes the missle just about useless...

 

what do you guys think is the best use for a tactical squad? what wargear works best and what roles do you use them for?

[Chaplain Mecurio]

I like my tacs in rhinos with a standard load of flamer and ML to capture and hold objectives. Depending on what I'm facing, I may change it up a little with a MM to pop tanks that stray a little too close, or possibly PC's for hordes. I also like LS Typhoons for support of my tacs and to hunt and kill light armor.

 

 

EDIT: If I show multiple posts, I'm sorry, the topic got moved while I was replying, and it went all wonky on me. :cuss

[Koremu]

Rhinos are positively the best thing for Tacticals. AV11 makes a lot of opponents try to take them out with weaker weapons (STR6 usually) only to find that it generally doesn't work out all that well. I also use Vindicators, Predators and Land Raiders to ensure that genuine AT fire is going elsewhere.

 

Equipment wise I have used all of the special and heavy weapons. I've spoken about the reasons for certain combinations of Heavy and Special weapon recently, so I'll just quote myself;

 

Personally I just have a selection of Specialist and Heavy Marine Models anyway, and by design my Sergeants don't wear definitive squad markings, so I can field more or less whatever combination I want. However, if you want my thoughts on Special/Heavy combinations in Tactical Squads, it comes down to this;

 

You either want total synergy, or complete diversity. Don't try to make a compromise.

 

What I mean by this is that you should either pair a Special and Heavy weapon so that they always, regardless of target, want to do a similar thing. A total synergy setup example is Plasma Gun + Multi-Melta. The two weapons have the same range banding (and, for further synergy, the same range banding as the Bolters), and get significantly nastier within 12" (again, as do Bolters), always want to do similar things (stand still and shoot mostly) and have similar power against similar targets.

 

A total diversity setup would be something like Meltagun + Heavy Bolter. They are best used against different targets, at different ranges, with different movement requirements.

 

Both of these squad setups are good because both have no or few situations in which you are faced with a dilema of whichof the two to use. The synergistic method makes use of the "all alpha strike, all the time" simplicity (it is in fact my prefered Objective Camping squad), which the diversity one has a wider variety of options, and is my prefered reaction force.

 

Sergeants, of course, also fall under this rule. Either make them work completely with the Squads focus, or completely cover the Squads weakness. Don't try and do both, because you'll either fail or overspend to do it.

 

 

For the record, all of the above is a grotesque oversimlification, but as a general principle it's true. Just don't expect it to be 100% infaliable.

[Demoulius]

well the problem i have with tacticals is finding a setup in which theyre versatile to be quite honoust. the jack of all trade setup ive tried is plasma and missle launcher and it dident work quite well. the multi-melta sounds like a nice alternate Koremu, same range like you said so theres a big chance that if you can fire one, the other one can fire as well ^_^

 

a small question however, should i take an assault AND a heavy weapon or just 1 of both on a mounted squad? mounted squads are intended to move around alot, contest objectives, rapid fire stuff/melt tanks to molten slag. the thing is the very nature of the squad require them to be mobile which means the heavy weapon isent going to fire much.

 

second question i got do you guys ever combat squad your tacticals? in my experience 5 man squads die very fast. since the units are so small they fall back alot faster to. the only plus to it would be that you can long ranged heavy weapons and a flamer/meltagun and use both :lol:

[Fetterkey]

I favor Razorbacks, personally. Half the squad takes the Razorback, while the other half stands back and provides support fire.

[DarkGuard]

a small question however, should i take an assault AND a heavy weapon or just 1 of both on a mounted squad? mounted squads are intended to move around alot, contest objectives, rapid fire stuff/melt tanks to molten slag. the thing is the very nature of the squad require them to be mobile which means the heavy weapon isent going to fire much.

 

second question i got do you guys ever combat squad your tacticals? in my experience 5 man squads die very fast. since the units are so small they fall back alot faster to. the only plus to it would be that you can long ranged heavy weapons and a flamer/meltagun and use both :lol:

 

The free heavy weapons are always worth taking. I would have agreed with you a while ago, but my mind has changed since. The advantage of having a missile launcher in a Tactical Squad is apparent when you don't move them first turn and use them to take out or transport, or fire at an incoming horde army. Or when you take that objective you can then keep it safe by firing at incoming enemies with your heavy weapon. That single bolt shot lost isn't going to impact much IMO.

 

An example from a game I played the other day saw my Rhino Tactical Squad (in my Vulcan army) stop infront of a Tau Hammerhead. The Hammerhead missed the Rhino, and next turn I popped the top hatch and fired at it with my TL multi-melta, blowing the Hammerhead up. Just the other day they became vital at destroying Dark Eldar Raiders that came too near. So don't worry about the apparent reduction in mobility (even though there is none), or the loss in a bolter shot, it shouldn't impact too much.

 

As for your second question, I will never combat squad into Tactical, or rather most of the time I won't. My 10 man squads are normally much better than my 5 man squads, and I like to keep them together. IMO 5 man squads are just not effective. I combat squadded for the first time in a long while the other day against the previously mentioned Dark Eldar army, in a 5 objective mission. This was partly to take more objectives, and also to try and avoid his horrofexs. In my opinion, my army didn't perform as well.

[Demoulius]

uh...yea....free heavy weapons... shame i dont get any, beeing a blood angel player and all ^_^

[Giga]

Depends on list, but this is what I usually take;

 

One tac squad with power fist, rhino, ML, flamer, and one tac squad with chainsword on sergeant, flamer, plasma cannon, razorback.

 

I find plasma cannon is the best upgrade for tacticals, as it's very cheap and it gives your tacticals the ability to actually do big damage.

 

In Vulkan lists, I love to give my tacticals combiflamers, too.

[Koremu]

I would only bother with combat squads in sub-1k points. Small games like that have less firepower floating about, and the larger squads can be slightly unwieldy.

 

But even then I don't always bother. 10 Tactical Marines in a Rhino parked on an objective is a pretty effective way to stake a claim.

[Fetterkey]

I would only bother with combat squads in sub-1k points. Small games like that have less firepower floating about, and the larger squads can be slightly unwieldy.

 

But even then I don't always bother. 10 Tactical Marines in a Rhino parked on an objective is a pretty effective way to stake a claim.

 

I use 4 Tactical Squads in 2,000 points and Combat Squad all of them. As long as you have an appropriate focus for each unit, Combat Squads can be very effective.

[xenosmk2]

Ive had limited experiance in 5th edition with the different weapons but each weapon can be effective when depolyed correctly.

I genereally prefer taking the flamer in most set-ups but the meltagun always seals the deal for mech to mech battles

[Giga]

Basically, I like to use my tacticals as a tag-along unit for the big killers of my lists, and as the cheapest way to get lots of power armored bodies into an army.

 

I have two types of tactical squads I take.

 

First is the support unit that drives around in a rhino, has a flamer, ML, + a powerfist if I can afford it. In Vulkan lists, I'll go out of my way to give them combi-flamers because this is a cheap way to give tacs great punch. Their job is to follow the big guys around (such as a land raider filled with assault termies, or a squad of bikes with bike captain, or a squad of sternguard in a rhino/LR etc.), and to support them with small arms fire, either weakening enemy squads, or locking them down until the big bads can take care of them, or by adding pressure to an assault. It is usually this sort of squads that I use to contest or control the objectives that are further away from my deployment zone. Conversely, against dangerous close combat armies like tyranids and world eaters, these tacticals usually spend two or even three turns sitting in their rhino and firing their ML out of the top hatch. Sometimes, if I'm lucky, they tend to pop or at least immobilize a transport or two.

 

Second type is the defensive tactical squad. These guys normally have a razorback, a flamer, and a plasma cannon. Their job is to sit in deployment zone, holding an objective if there is one, and laying plasma cannon fire and single bolter shots on the enemy. This kind of tactical squad is really hit or miss though. At times I lose the plasma cannon early on to overheat, while at other times the plasma cannon racks up an impressive amount of kills, sometimes even blasting vehicles apart. In certain situations (such as when fighting armies that lack proper shooting, like local blood angels armies), I might combat squad them and put the squad with sergeant, flamer and 3 bolters into the razorback and drive them upfield, but I rarely do this.

 

I never put any upgrades on transports for tacticals, though. I try to keep my troops cheap, mainly because I think they're overpriced already and because I need points for the real killers.

 

As for the razorbacks, depending on playstyle and personal preference, you might wanna consider using different types of razorback. The reason I'm still using the standard heavy bolter razorback is mainly because I'm sort of scared to spend 70 points on something with AV11, and because the standard heavy bolter razorback is just so unassuming and the opponents usually ignore it, allowing it to kill quite a few enemy models over the course of a battle.

[Warp Angel]

I tend to take tactical squads in complimentary pairs:

 

1) Defender role - Plasma Cannon, Flamer, Powerfist, Razorback. - their job is to camp on or near a home objective and take out incoming enemy troops and elite infantry. The plasma cannon gives them a CHANCE to knock out a basic transport if that's my only target, but it's really there to handle deep striking squads or squads deploying out of that basic transport. The flamer backs that up with authority. The plasma cannon is also a legitimate threat to whittle down monstrous creatures as they slog their way across the table. The winged monstrosities are problematic, since they arrive so quickly, but the anti-armor support in the rest of my army is usually sufficient to deal with it. The powerfist is there because it provides a legit deterrant against wounded MCs and makes most ICs risk instant death to close in. It also inflicts the most wounds against the greatest number of possible opponents compared to any other weapon choice. The razorback provides supplementary firepower and cover. They almost never use it as a transport, because as a defender, their job is to LIVE, not kill, and living is enhanced when there are 10 of you.

 

2) Hunter role - Multi Melta, meltagun or flamer, power fist, rhino. - their job is to be a mobile threat against armor. Ideally, they draw attention away from the defender, use the rhino to block LOS to my firebases, deny charges, etc. I fully expect these guys to get whomped at some point during the game and count it a blessing if they survive to contest or control an objective. Utilized offensively, they are armor hunters first and foremost.

 

I NEVER try and use tactical squads in the following ways:

 

A) Firebase - there's simply more efficient ways to put long ranged firepower down on the table than with a tactical squad. Two dakka preds with pintle storms cost about the same, have 4 bolter shots, 12 heavy bolter shots, and 4 autocannon shots. What does a tactical squad get? Not that much.

:P Cleaners - they aren't fast enough or good enough in CC (even with a transport) to use them as a reliable means to kick an enemy off an objective or finish off a depleted squad, especially in later turns of the game when it's important and they've taken casualties of their own.

C) Killers - with the exception of some scout squad builds, they are about the least offensive unit in the codex on a point for point basis. You average 3 MEQs for a 200 point squad each turn, at rapid fire range. Less at longer. About the same ratio when you get the charge/don't get the charge in hand to hand and have a power fist. That's not a killer unit in my mind, so I find them elsewhere in my list.

 

For a more detailed (Killhammer based) assessment click the link to tactical squads in my signature.

[avatar8481]

what Warp Angel said with the added bonus of using them just to make rhino's scoring, with hunting tanks next on my list.

[Demoulius]

im glad you replied to my post guys and specialy you Warp Angel, ive read the post in your sig and it told me exactly what i found out myself, the hard way.

 

tactical squads are a good basic infantry compared to other armies but theyre nowhere the killer units as other armies have. they can be outshot and out...uh...close combated very easily and i find that they perform the best at a supportive role.

 

that said il be making some changes to my tactical squads, switching special and heavy weapons around a little. a unit i take almost always will for example exchange its missle launcher for a multi-melta. the mm has the same range as the bolters and plasmagun in the unit so that their range is always identical. if one cant fire theres a 99% chance the others cant either.

 

that said at 1500 points a second mounted tactical squad with mm, mg and pf should also act as a pretty all round unit. i say all round unit because rapid firing and having 2 melta weapons can do some horrific things to MEQ's. ive seen plenty of unlucky rolls to renember that this is a game about dice, even the lowly bolter can bring down a deamon prince or carnifex, all thats needed is abit of luck (and bad luck on your opponents side)

 

could you annalize the following list and consider if the tacticals have a decent setup for the goal i have in mind? mind you im a blood angel player so il post behind the unit what it does

 

hq

chaplain with jumppack and plasmapistol 135 pts - he controls my death company. without him they just move and assault the nearest enemy and basicly become wasted points.

6 death company with jumppacks - 120 pts. - a hard hitting assault squad with feel no pain and rending attacks :)

10 man tactical squad with pg. mm, fist and rhino 280 pts - jack of all trades unit (for me anyway) can tackle tanks or rapid fire MEQ's to death.

10 man tactical squad with mm, mg, fist and rhino 275 pts - anti tank unit mostly but the fist ensures they can take care of themselves in close combat.

10 man assault squad with 2 pp's and a fist 305 pts - a troop choice for us blood angels :) they tag along behind the rhino and ussually assault something together with the deathcompany.

baal predator with heavy bolters 125 pts - a kick ass tank with twin linked assault cannon and overcharged engines. my jack of all trades tank. can dish out 6 S5 shots and 4 twin linked S6 shots that can rend!! amazing tank that can even tackle other tanks if im lucky enough with shooting on side armour or rending hits.

baal predator with heavy bolters 125 pts - same as above

vindicator with dozerblade - 130 pts - area denial and overall fire magnet. ive seen him earn his points back in gold and obliderate entire units a turn ^_^ on the flipside ive also losted him pretty quikly during battles or seen his cannon blown off turning him into fancy mobile cover...

 

comes at 1495 pts, if you can find something for the other 5 points let me know :) basicly my 2 rhinos, assault squad and death company move forward whilst my tanks flank and basicly let it rip on my enemy. i havent played in a while though and the last games i did play were all fun games where we dident even roll for objectives and just went straight for eithothers troughts :rolleyes:

[Brother Evar]

I like the following tac squad comp's-

 

x10 SM, MM, PG sarge w/ CM/ CP +PF = good objective holders

 

x10 SM, PG, HB Sarge PW + BP = Good all rounders, not bad at MEQ duty.

 

This one is a bit weird-

 

x10 SM, MG, PC sarge w/ PW + BP = I take this to take on bikes, termi's ect.

 

I like PW this edition over PF. Due to price and the fact I take dedicated CC units so tacs shoot more and mop ups are better for me with an I4, 3-4 PW attacks.

[Frater Marcus Scipio]

I like PW this edition over PF. Due to price and the fact I take dedicated CC units so tacs shoot more and mop ups are better for me with an I4, 3-4 PW attacks.

 

An interesting thought as I almost never use power fists on my tacticals (but I always do on my BT crusade squads). I keep them safe in a rhino firing out of the top hatch and when the rhino is blown up they hug cover and continue to fire. I find that any unit where I would find the PF necessary is generally one which is going to beat me in close comabt anyway. I would rather use chapter tactics to fall back and then hit them with another round of firing.

 

I do have assault elements in my codex army (either dreads, A termies, bike command sqauds, even a sternguard squad with attached IC) and will generally use them to divert the assault. What generally gets through (i.e. what makes it past my assault units) is generally significantly weakened such that I can kill it in shooting without having to absorb the charge.

 

Given that I usually run 3-4 tac squads that ends up being somewhere in the neighborhood of another MM/HF LS, typhoon LS, Dakka Pred, libby, or even a few points short of a dread. All of which (except maybe the libby) do much more for me than the PFs...