Why put troops into reserves?

[thade]

If a unit cannot Deep Strike or Outflank, and you are not playing a game-type that forces some of your troops to reserves (e.g. Dawn of War), is there ever a reason you would want a non-deep striking, non-flanking, normal unit to start the game on reserve? I simply can't imagine one.

[VariableBob]

Well, they can't be shot while in reserve. So keep a troops choice in reserve, then bring it on later and go straight for an objective.

[chapter master 454]

well, late on you can make your opponent think your home objective is vunerable then BAM hit them with a surprise bolter blitz. It can be helpful for when you need to have some of your army held back to avoid getting hit by 'one-shot wonders' and having a late on unit at full strength can be a real boost.

 

I still remember one game where my foot slogging devastors came in turn 2 from reserves onto a hill that some 10 shocktroopers were camping in, my 5 men booted them off the hill like some school bully. 8 killed and then after they ran in turn 3 I decided since I had no better target (all other enemy tanks had ether hidden from them or been cooked) to finish them off with 4 krak rockets. Remember reserves can help greatly, they can be hidden aces (imagine all of a sudden 4 missle lauchers just come on in a wooded area with a commanding view of the field on a hill. Those guys will draw more fire for a turn than you can believe).

 

Just because troops move 6" don't think they can't do jack. remember those guys can seriously lay down surprise smackdown on a careless or thinks he's safe general.

[Koremu]

This has been debated quite a bit dwn in Tactica Astartes (where this thread should be).

 

Essentially, yes, Reserving Troops is an excellent idea. As the only unit selection that can claim objectives, Troops choices are frequently the prime target for enemy fire. Keeping them off the board (and frequently in a Rhino) is another layer of defensive protection. If it can't be shot, it can't die.

[Grey Mage]

If they are mounted, or a biker squad, or JPs then its not a horrible idea at all- theyll be fast enough *hopefully* to pop out and seize an objective late in the game.

 

In KP missions it just denies your enemy some shots, and with tactical squads you may pop out around the time the enemy appears in your DZ.

[Justicar Valius]

Troops yes, others... not so much.

 

In KP games as marines, reserves can be useful in denying hordes the chances to kill a squad. However if you play as a horde of orks or nids then you are just giving us the ability to take down your army bit by bit without as much return fire.

[chapter master 454]

Troops yes, others... not so much.

 

In KP games as marines, reserves can be useful in denying hordes the chances to kill a squad. However if you play as a horde of orks or nids then you are just giving us the ability to take down your army bit by bit without as much return fire.

 

very true but we do get a chance to see where you are and leave other squds in certain areas to make kill zones. An over excited horde army player might just think about the piece by piece idea and soon see his army is all over the place and soon quickly smashed apart by late game bolter blitz. Then again it all boils down to 'coulda, shoulda, woulda'

[Koremu]

Troops yes, others... not so much.

 

In KP games as marines, reserves can be useful in denying hordes the chances to kill a squad. However if you play as a horde of orks or nids then you are just giving us the ability to take down your army bit by bit without as much return fire.

I frequently keep Assault Marines off the board too. They enforce an 18" exclusion zone which prevents Eldar enemies from Flank Marching near to my lines, while preventing them from being shot.

 

That's obviously an enemy specific technique.

[honersstodnt]

another great unit I keep in reserve often is a squadron of typhoons. They pop out where they can do maximum damage, and unleash a barrage of frags and heavy bolter shots that decimates infantry.

 

Rhino mounted tactical squads also make great troops to hold in reserve, especially in spearhead missions. you can bring your troops in anywhere along your board edge, so you can get troops along your enemies flank much faster with rhinos comming off your edge, making a beeline for the enemy objective behind the main part of their force, which is advancing diagonally across the map to yours.

[pueriexdeus]

Correct me if I'm wrong. In reading this thread I seem to be hearing players talk about Apoc games (flank march), rather that normal, Cough, cough, games.

 

So, I will say that in a normal 2000pt< game, reserves can be a winner, if they come in at the right time, and place. The defender should make sure that there are enough forces to defend the OBJ. If not its yours.

 

In Apoc, if you have un-contested OBJ's then they are yours to take.

 

Today I played a 750pt game against a NOOB, capture the Flag.

 

Me: DA... used the Smurfdex

 

Chappi, JP, digi, BP, Crozius

 

Tac Sqd of 10. PF, PC, Flmr, Rzrbk TLLC, SB, HKM

 

Asst Sqd of 10, PF, 2xPP

 

Scouts 6x Sniper, HB, Sgt PW

 

 

Him: Crimson Fists C:SM

 

Chappi digi, BP, Crozius

 

Tac Sqd of 10 ML, PR, PF

 

Tac Sqd of 5 Bolters, PS

 

Assault Sqd of 5 PF

 

Terminators 5x PF/SB

 

Where it came to a deciding factor was when he tried to DS his Termies on my OBJ (looking for the moral victory). BTW I already had his. He was suddenly faced with a 5man Combat Sqd W/PC, and 5 man Asault Sqd w/1 PP. Needless to say I didn't fire a shot. He drifted in to my Tacs, and he had to roll the mishap (2) lost in the warp.

 

So if you want to DS/Flank march into the opponents OBJ, you need to be at least 2/1. Oh, that reminds me about the Apoc game I played last week. The Orks (must have been at least 30 of them) thought they were going to flank march, and they did, just out of (assault) range of the defending Termies (2x5) & the defending Tac Sqds 2x10. Needless to say the Orks lost the initiative and lost every model because they had to accept the charge.

 

Now it's important to say that the FoG lost the game, because we had to stop the WAAGH, and then couldn't come back in time to re-secure the OBJ. Bummer...

 

 

So Deep Striking & Flank March (that whole Reserve thing) can be useful if used at the right time and place.

[Grey Mage]

@pueriexdeus :

 

I believe he meant flank march as in the literal idea of walking/marching/riding up to your opponents flank and then turning in on them. Also known as "Flanking" your opponent.

 

Cutting in from the side where your opponent is hard pressed to shoot multiple units at you or bring in a large assault force is a standard tactic for highly mobile armies *like the eldar he mentioned*.

[DarkGuard]

I normally keep my unit of MM attack bikes in reserve. Therefore, when I deploy them I get to choose the oppponents vehicle I send them against, and with their speed they can quickly get into position.

[Koremu]

@pueriexdeus :

 

I believe he meant flank march as in the literal idea of walking/marching/riding up to your opponents flank and then turning in on them. Also known as "Flanking" your opponent.

 

Cutting in from the side where your opponent is hard pressed to shoot multiple units at you or bring in a large assault force is a standard tactic for highly mobile armies *like the eldar he mentioned*.

No, I meant Flank March in the rules sense of "Eldar War Walkers have scout, so can declare themselves to be flank marching and try to come on near my table edge". Nothing Apoc about it, Flank March is in the main rulebook.

 

That trick is a favourite of both Eldar players in my regular gaming scene, and can be very irritating. Having stuff in Reserve to come in from your own table edge prevents them from doing that within the first 18 - 20 " of the board or more.

 

Same goes for Flank Marching scuttler (scout) Genestealers.

[Giga]

Here are some of the reasons I put some of my stuff into reserves;

 

- I put vulnerable infantry-killers (like bike squads, or specialized flamer bike squads, or heavy flamer sternguard squads etc.) into reserves, to keep them safe until I pop some transports, at which point they usually arrive out of reserves to do some serious infantry-slaughter

 

- I put highly dangerous stuff like vindicators into reserve when I fight stuff like tyranids or khorne marines, basically the vindicator comes in 6" and shoots 24" immediately, without being in danger of having been shot at previously, it's a tactic the opponent can't avoid as by the time vindicator enters play his army will already be in table-middle, at least

 

- In multiple-objective missions, especially if it's table quarters deployment, I like to put some of my army into reserves, so the opponent doesn't know what objectives I'm going to go after, and when

 

- against deathwing, drop pod, and even daemon armies, I usually put my entire army into reserve; this way I always get to shoot/assault first, while the opponent gets to deepstrike onto an empty table, which wastes their initial shooting, or leaves their assault specialists stranded far from my shooty units

 

 

 

Generally, having your entire army in reserves is a great idea because it allows you to react to an opponent's game plan, as well as to use fast-moving elements (bikers, speeders, mechanized squads etc.) to come at the opponent from sides he doesn't expect you to. It requires some finesse to learn, but it's great once you do.

[Koremu]

Having everything in reserve does have its downside. If the enemy can concentrate his firepower, he can kill your force piecemeal as it arrives, while taking relatively few losses because you can't concentrate your own.

 

That's why reserving everything is very much a defensive reactive deployment.

[Giga]

Of course, everything has its advantages and disadvantages. However, the 4+ for a unit to arrive means usually at least half of your army will get on the table in turn 2.

 

Another good idea is to deploy a sacrificial unit for the opponent to go after, and leave the rest in reserves. Tends to either overfocus or divide an opponent's army.

[ShinyRhino]

Nothing Apoc about it, Flank March is in the main rulebook.

 

Ahh, there's the confusion. That ability is named "Outflank", at least in the US version of the book.

[Skirax]

Just because troops move 6" don't think they can't do jack. remember those guys can seriously lay down surprise smackdown on a careless or thinks he's safe general.

Well, put them in a rhino/razorback and even that problem is solved.

[Koremu]

Nothing Apoc about it, Flank March is in the main rulebook.

 

Ahh, there's the confusion. That ability is named "Outflank", at least in the US version of the book.

Might be in mine too, tbh... I didn't bother looking and don't personally own the apoc books so my knowledge of its content is less than encyclopedic.

 

I take a "ok, whatever" attitude to things happening in apoc. The don't really need a reason.

 

Just because troops move 6" don't think they can't do jack. remember those guys can seriously lay down surprise smackdown on a careless or thinks he's safe general.

Well, put them in a rhino/razorback and even that problem is solved.

Which prevents them from Assaulting on the turn they come into play... and before you say it, yes, I have used Land Raiders.

[pueriexdeus]

Found it, interesting. Might have to try this tactic with my RW, and some Rhinos full of Scouts.

[thade]

Thank you everyone, for the input. =)

 

I frequently keep Assault Marines off the board too. They enforce an 18" exclusion zone which prevents Eldar enemies from Flank Marching near to my lines, while preventing them from being shot.

 

That's obviously an enemy specific technique.

 

Hey Koremu, could you please expand on what you mean here? ...how do they enforce an 18" exclusion zone on Eldar? My army is going to be pretty jump marine heavy (in fact, so heavy I'm already composing an alternate list to run them as blood angels...which means the assault marines can't have flamers, but it might still be worthwhile) and one of my friends is amassing Eldar to play, so I'm very very interested.

[DemetriiTZ]

Jump Pack marines and other 12'' move squads like bikes can attack anything within 18'' of the board edge when they show up. The 18'' zone is a "Stay out if you don't want to be nailed with Jump Pack Marines" zone. Get it? :tu:

[Koremu]

Jump Pack marines and other 12'' move squads like bikes can attack anything within 18'' of the board edge when they show up. The 18'' zone is a "Stay out if you don't want to be nailed with Jump Pack Marines" zone. Get it? :P

Pretty much this. Preventing the Eldar War Walkers from having side armour arcs on my Vindi or Pred is the aim, and it works. Land Raider + Contents enforces a 20" exclusion zone (12" move, 2" disembark, 6" assault), but is obviously a lot pricier.