Gentlemanloser Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 So in other words perfectly balanced for Apocalypse where people are fielding Titans with D weapons Apart from it not being a Super Heavy, and designed to be used predominantly in normal games. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2122023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleCaptain Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 This problem then arises.... If he's using a Codex Marine Storm Shield, then by rights he should be using an Instant Death causing Force Weapon. Which would make any Daemon immune to its Instant Death. Finally got my book today. His rules specifically state his force weapon wounds daemons on a 4+ or better and "instantly kills any opponent regardless of wounds remaining upon a succesful psychic test (except for gargantuan creatures who suffer d3 wounds)". It makes no mention of Instant Death whatsoever. Also, his storm shield specifies a 3+ invulnerable save. In this case it is a very clear cut (and unusual) case of the DH getting to have their cake and eat it too. Well, Rex's sword was blessed by the God Emperor Himself. Maybe that's the reason why it can ignore Eternal Warrior despite the fact that he has a Codex SM storm shield. ;) Here's to hoping that the I5 is attributable to the sword too instead of an unlisted familiar. :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2122183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Well, I know that the wording "instantly kills" is close enough to "cause instant death" that my gaming circle would consider it as such. Big rule book says Force Weapons cause Instant Death, but our codex says "remove model". Some eyebrows are raised, but most players consider it ok. Big rule book says Force Weapons cause Instant Death, but SoV 3 says "instantly kills". Players will point the Rule Lawyering finger. Its like the old debate (before FAQ) that "pintles" where not turrets, because not listed à such in the rulebook and so couldn't shoot 360 degrees.. But most dictionaries defined Pintles as "small turrets". Well, I'm pretty sure that "remove models" and "causes instant death" are not synonyms. But "instantly kills" and "causes Instant Death" is exactly the same thing... I'm all for giving advantages to the DH, as I think we have an old codex full of disadvantages. But this won't go through with most opponents... Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2122229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawk Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 No one in my community argues about me having "improved" Force Weapons. Codex trumps BBB, period. Abouth Rex though. I believe he is vastly overpriced. The new Storm Shield and force sword are no excuse for an almost 300 pts cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2122615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleCaptain Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 No one in my community argues about me having "improved" Force Weapons.Codex trumps BBB, period. Abouth Rex though. I believe he is vastly overpriced. The new Storm Shield and force sword are no excuse for an almost 300 pts cost. In my opinion, Rex is priced just right. Considering that he can fry that 888 point Daemon Lord with a single blow. ^_^ In any case, does anyone have any new when the FAQ fro Vraks 3 will be out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2122636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 No one in my community argues about me having "improved" Force Weapons.Codex trumps BBB, period. I agree (as does my gaming group) that Codex trumps BBB. But Siege of Vrak is not the Codex. It has it's own rule, with a different wording than the Codex's... Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2122669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 But "instantly kills" and "causes Instant Death" is exactly the same thing The exact rules relating to Arias (Rex's Emperor blessed sword) are: Always wounds Daemons on a minimum of 4+ regardless of enemy toughness (Annointed Weapon). Psychic test to kill any wounded opponent regardless of wounds (Force Weapon). This causes D3 wounds to Gargantuan creatures. If the sword was a normal force weapon, it would say "Causes Instant Death upon a successful psychic test". It doesn't say anything like that, and normal force weapons don't hurt Gargantuan creatures. Arias is obviously intended to be unique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 In my opinion, Rex is priced just right. Considering that he can fry that 888 point Daemon Lord with a single blow. ^_^ In any case, does anyone have any new when the FAQ fro Vraks 3 will be out? No he can't. He will do d3 wounds per hit to An'ggrath or Scabeiathrax as they are gangantuan creatures. Still, with a few additional Acolytes he will still kill him for less than half the cost. For me, Stern is the big fluff winner in the book. He takes out multiple forgeworld daemons. I reckon he's got one of the biggest kill lists in all 40k. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 But "instantly kills" and "causes Instant Death" is exactly the same thing The exact rules relating to Arias (Rex's Emperor blessed sword) are: Always wounds Daemons on a minimum of 4+ regardless of enemy toughness (Annointed Weapon). Psychic test to kill any wounded opponent regardless of wounds (Force Weapon). This causes D3 wounds to Gargantuan creatures. If the sword was a normal force weapon, it would say "Causes Instant Death upon a successful psychic test". It doesn't say anything like that, and normal force weapons don't hurt Gargantuan creatures. Arias is obviously intended to be unique. Although that wording is different from "instantly kills", I'm pretty sure it will raise more resistance from opponents than "remove model". Mind you, friendly gaming groups will probably discuss it and come to an agreement that it works like a DH Force Weapon. It's just sad that FW didn't make it clearer by actually stating something like "even if immune to Instant Death". Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Although that wording is different from "instantly kills", I'm pretty sure it will raise more resistance from opponents than "remove model". Mind you, friendly gaming groups will probably discuss it and come to an agreement that it works like a DH Force Weapon. It's just sad that FW didn't make it clearer by actually stating something like "even if immune to Instant Death". Phil I guess you play different sorts of people I do. I don't see how it could be any clearer to be honest. The weapon doesn't inflict Instant Death. If it did, the rules would say "Inflicts Instant Death upon a succesfull psychic test". It purposely doesn't say that (possibly because the entire point of the character is to take on daemons?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleCaptain Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 In my opinion, Rex is priced just right. Considering that he can fry that 888 point Daemon Lord with a single blow. ^_^ In any case, does anyone have any new when the FAQ fro Vraks 3 will be out? No he can't. He will do d3 wounds per hit to An'ggrath or Scabeiathrax as they are gangantuan creatures. Still, with a few additional Acolytes he will still kill him for less than half the cost. For me, Stern is the big fluff winner in the book. He takes out multiple forgeworld daemons. I reckon he's got one of the biggest kill lists in all 40k. :) I stand corrected. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Aren't Gargantuan Creatures immune to Psychic Powers? If the Forgeworld Daemons are Gargantuans, they wouldn't be effected by any DH Force Weapons, as the Kill Outright is a Psychic Power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Rosette Soulknyt Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well i dont have the book yet is there any mention of Adepta Sororitus in the book at all? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Aren't Gargantuan Creatures immune to Psychic Powers? If the Forgeworld Daemons are Gargantuans, they wouldn't be effected by any DH Force Weapons, as the Kill Outright is a Psychic Power. Rex's sword is specifically mentioned as doing D3 wounds to Gargantuans upon a successful psychic test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Aren't Gargantuan Creatures immune to Psychic Powers? If the Forgeworld Daemons are Gargantuans, they wouldn't be effected by any DH Force Weapons, as the Kill Outright is a Psychic Power. Rex's sword is specifically mentioned as doing D3 wounds to Gargantuans upon a successful psychic test. Yeah. But normal GK's, Inquisitors and Stern wouldn't be able to 'Kill Outright' an 888 point FW Daemon (if thye're Gargantuan Creatures, and Gargantuan Creatures are immune to Psychic Powers...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well i dont have the book yet is there any mention of Adepta Sororitus in the book at all? Briefly. Several Sororitus rescued by the Ordo Malleus become pawns in inter-Ordo politics. Poor things. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Yeah. But normal GK's, Inquisitors and Stern wouldn't be able to 'Kill Outright' an 888 point FW Daemon (if thye're Gargantuan Creatures, and Gargantuan Creatures are immune to Psychic Powers...) Yeah, I guess Stern wounded the T9 daemon 10 times, lol. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleCaptain Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well i dont have the book yet is there any mention of Adepta Sororitus in the book at all? Briefly. Several Sororitus rescued by the Ordo Malleus become pawns in inter-Ordo politics. Poor things. B) Unfortunately, they were too corrupted to be left alive. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2123622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripath Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Well i dont have the book yet is there any mention of Adepta Sororitus in the book at all? The book plays mainly into the fight for control between the malleus and hereticus ordos sadly they had to die because of it. -_- such a waste of resources. they are deemed as corrupted beyond healing and executed by Rex as a small means of ordo political justice. (the hereticus pulled strings to have almost all of the army on vrakks taken away) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2126515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawk Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Did anyone notice that Rex has a Initiative statline of 4(5)? What exactly does that mean? Before or after the Familiar bonus? If before, then he might actually be worth those points having I6 with a familiar. No other wargear he carries would point to this wierd stat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2130931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleCaptain Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Did anyone notice that Rex has a Initiative statline of 4(5)?What exactly does that mean? Before or after the Familiar bonus? If before, then he might actually be worth those points having I6 with a familiar. No other wargear he carries would point to this wierd stat. Read back through the posts. It was the same question I asked with no real definite answer. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2131538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
guillaume Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I was just re-reading over this old post and thinking how awesome the GK redeemer rules sound, and I therefore wondered onto the FW website to have a look at it and get my head around the price. At 60 pounds (I am including shipping) for a full LR with bits and doors and gunman, it isnt bad. Just twice as much. Steep but relatively doable. Then I went down to look at the rhino twin-linked psycannon. Though neat. Then re-read the title on the FW webpage. It says twin-linked psycannon for razorback OR LANDRAIDER. Now when did we get a twin-linked psycannon upgrade for our regular landraider I ask? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/ingrb.htm Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2131614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Should be one of the upgrades listed in the IA2 Downloadable Update available on ForgeWorld's website. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2131621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
guillaume Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 ah right, did not catch that, thanks Inq NicolePyykkonen. 10pts for twin linked psycannons for 10 british pounds looks like a fine little investment if you ask me. Makes the LR a proper GK LR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/175578-siege-of-vracks-3-question/page/4/#findComment-2131770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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