Abbadon's Retinue

[djkest]

So I've seen abbaddon used to great effect, but there are some things (not many) that can hand it to him. I think in general he has problems with taking on massive units like orcs, or maybe TH/SS termies. So with that in mind, I was thinking about what kind of dudes he would run with. They would have to be killy because he is killy, and bound to face all sorts of nasties since he will go after anything and everything. Next they have to be durable because you wouldn't want to drag Abbadon down by taking casualties and reducing your combat res. They have to be elite because abbadon is the best CSM special character around, and fluffwise he's a really special guy.

 

So here's my idea:

4 Chaos Terminator Champions

Icon of Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or possibly nurgle. I think Tz would be best

2x PoLC (one is icon bearer), Powerfist, Heavy Flamer. Total cost is 215 points I think, but depends on which icon you take. All unique.

When assaulting you would have 10 LC attacks, 4 PW attacks, and 4 fist attacks.

 

And them stick them in a demonic LR. It's a lot of points to invest, but only the best for the lord of darkness.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

In the fluff, he does have a terminator bodyguard and we know atleast one of them has twin claws.

 

However, in the current codex this is no longer viable due to the lack of fearless. A terminator bodyguard is a liability for Abbadon because if they fall back he is stuck falling back with them. He'll run all the way off the board, or worse get sweeping advanced.

 

The only optinons for abbadon's bodyguard are fearless units. Your best bet is berserkers with him in a landraider. Plague marines are good too if you want more of a meatshield than killing power. Possessed work as well but of course have their own issues and are not as competitive a unit as berserkers or PMs.

[minigun762]

However, in the current codex this is no longer viable due to the lack of fearless. A terminator bodyguard is a liability for Abbadon because if they fall back he is stuck falling back with them. He'll run all the way off the board, or worse get sweeping advanced.

 

I wouldn't say it has to be Fearless units, as we just discussed in another thread, LD10 + Icon of Chaos Glory is just as good (if not better sometimes) as Fearless. The only time it would be a significant disadvantage is if you lost combat by 6+ Wounds but then you have to ask yourself why a squad of Terminators and Abaddon is losing combat by that much? And the same squad of Fearless units would end up taking alot of wounds, probably losing 1-2 units depending, so its not like its totally safe either way.

 

Tactically I'd go with Plague Marines or Berserkers. Abbadon basically plays the role of squad Champion and smashes things with his super Power Fist. But since I don't consider Abbadon to be a tactical choice anyway, I'd probably go the fluffy route and give him Terminators + IoCG.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

However, in the current codex this is no longer viable due to the lack of fearless. A terminator bodyguard is a liability for Abbadon because if they fall back he is stuck falling back with them. He'll run all the way off the board, or worse get sweeping advanced.

 

I wouldn't say it has to be Fearless units, as we just discussed in another thread, LD10 + Icon of Chaos Glory is just as good (if not better sometimes) as Fearless. The only time it would be a significant disadvantage is if you lost combat by 6+ Wounds but then you have to ask yourself why a squad of Terminators and Abaddon is losing combat by that much? And the same squad of Fearless units would end up taking alot of wounds, probably losing 1-2 units depending, so its not like its totally safe either way.

 

Tactically I'd go with Plague Marines or Berserkers. Abbadon basically plays the role of squad Champion and smashes things with his super Power Fist. But since I don't consider Abbadon to be a tactical choice anyway, I'd probably go the fluffy route and give him Terminators + IoCG.

 

I would agree, but with Abbadon its just too many eggs in one basket. There are plenty of things that can lower leadership (also mentioned in other thread) and abbadon + a squad will be a big 500+ point bullseye for them.

 

That said, i agree with your last paragraph. Thats how i'd run him too.

[chillin]

fluffwize abby would run with nothing but termi champs, probably out of a LR. Not really what you want to do in a game, but that's what abby WOULD run with.

[tastytaste]

Also remember you can make IC units so throw him with Khârn and Zerkers and you should enough attacks to take out any size boyz squad plus pretty much anything else in the game.

[Dràyhèn]

However, in the current codex this is no longer viable due to the lack of fearless. A terminator bodyguard is a liability for Abbadon because if they fall back he is stuck falling back with them. He'll run all the way off the board, or worse get sweeping advanced.

Is there really something that can challenge Abby with bodyguard and come out as the winner?

I really doubt there's many that can accomplish that feat.

 

Just in case, you should run IoCG with them. If you fail even then, then I can't help but to wonder what went wrong, 'cos something did, and badly if I might add.

 

Of course there are things capable of causing that many wounds, but those you shouldn't seek to charge, and avoid getting charged by them.

Berzerkers don't have 2+ saves, so they probably die faster, though they may cause more wounds (and even then you get normal saves for 'em).

 

Overall I think both of them are fairly suitable, though sweeping isn't the thing to fear, just look who you charge.

[the jeske]

Is there really something that can challenge Abby with bodyguard and come out as the winner?

I really doubt there's many that can accomplish that feat.

8-10 banshes with exarch with that counter attack power or a unit of zerker/pms +lord . the shriek +termis unit . and even if they do lose all thats going to be left is abby with 2 wounds . [so he dies next turn to shoting].

[Artangel]

Is there really something that can challenge Abby with bodyguard and come out as the winner?

I really doubt there's many that can accomplish that feat.

8-10 banshes with exarch with that counter attack power or a unit of zerker/pms +lord . the shriek +termis unit . and even if they do lose all thats going to be left is abby with 2 wounds . [so he dies next turn to shoting].

 

I think you must of been playing against an Eldar with lucky dice rolls if you lost 8 Plague Marines and 2 wounds of Abby to 8 Banshees. Remember they wont get there +1 for charge due to blight grenades so saying there are 8 Banshees that will leave 16 attacks needing a 4+ to hit thats 8 that hit then needeing a 6 to wound your talking about 1/2 dead.

 

Banshees are overated str 3 pffft more likely to get killed falling out of the tank:).

[Hellios]

Is there really something that can challenge Abby with bodyguard and come out as the winner?

I really doubt there's many that can accomplish that feat.

8-10 banshes with exarch with that counter attack power or a unit of zerker/pms +lord . the shriek +termis unit . and even if they do lose all thats going to be left is abby with 2 wounds . [so he dies next turn to shoting].

 

I think you must of been playing against an Eldar with lucky dice rolls if you lost 8 Plague Marines and 2 wounds of Abby to 8 Banshees. Remember they wont get there +1 for charge due to blight grenades so saying there are 8 Banshees that will leave 16 attacks needing a 4+ to hit thats 8 that hit then needeing a 6 to wound your talking about 1/2 dead.

 

Banshees are overated str 3 pffft more likely to get killed falling out of the tank:).

 

Banshees tend either be overated or underated and as an eldar both work for me. Not sure they would smash abby and his crew tho... although Yriel could probabbly hurt a few... although abby could turn him into paste. I guess you hit with around 50% (i'll presume exarch with executioner) and then with 1/3 of the hitting attacks and then with 1/3 of those that failed to wound (doomed ofc) so thats around 5/6/7 wounding PW attacks if attacking a unit with defensive grenades

 

I would guess a large unit of TH/SS just being a pain in the ass and not dying would stick around and lets stick lysander in there for S10 goodness although I've heard many say Lysander is the combat monster I think Abby would rip him, sure he has eternal warrior and a 3++ but abbs would hit him with so many attacks.

[Dràyhèn]

I've heard many say Lysander is the combat monster I think Abby would rip him, sure he has eternal warrior and a 3++ but abbs would hit him with so many attacks.

Been there & done that, ripped in two for good.

[Artangel]

I've heard many say Lysander is the combat monster I think Abby would rip him, sure he has eternal warrior and a 3++ but abbs would hit him with so many attacks.

Been there & done that, ripped in two for good.

 

Aye Abby is the king of all H2H. Lysanders party trick of bolter drill coming down in a drop pod with stern gaurd and special issue Ammo wounding on a 2+ is just to hard hitting for even terminator armour to make that many saves on. I have lost count of how many Deamon princes I have lost to this tactic.

[Corpse.]

8 Berzerkers from a land raider actually.

 

Initiative 5's on the charge + volume attacks at WS5, then abby included in the fray and the str9 powerfist backing it up.

 

4 Terminators seems to fall too fast to regular power weapons of I5+, rending of mass included.

[the jeske]

I think you must of been playing against an Eldar with lucky dice rolls if you lost 8 Plague Marines and 2 wounds of Abby to 8 Banshees.

only the treat started about abbadon and a 4 man terminator bodyguard. so full number of attacks and no fearless and no t5.

[evilsponge]

a Zerker bodyguard has one problem, majority toughness when it comes to being shot at. A better bodyguard unit would be possessed with an Icon or nurgle. Fearless with str 5 and a good chance at getting power weapons or rending

[davidren2401]

Mmmmmmm can't really decide between termies for fluff or bezerkers for killyness. Does Abby get paralysed by his daemon weapon if he rolls a 1 for the attacks or does he have perfect mastery over it?

[Azulz]

Mmmmmmm can't really decide between termies for fluff or bezerkers for killyness. Does Abby get paralysed by his daemon weapon if he rolls a 1 for the attacks or does he have perfect mastery over it?

If he rolls a 1 the model may not make any attacks in this round and takes one wound with no armor saves allowed.

The other night I played with "HIM" and three assaults in a row I rolled ones for his demon weapon :D I dont even want to think about the odds of that happening. But yeah from now in I will not be saying "HIS" name before I roll for his demon weapon...Also in the rules for demon weapons the codex says rolll the dice before the model is about to attack. I dont know if this means after the assault move or before

[Zealot Of Chaos]

Mmmmmmm can't really decide between termies for fluff or bezerkers for killyness. Does Abby get paralysed by his daemon weapon if he rolls a 1 for the attacks or does he have perfect mastery over it?

If he rolls a 1 the model may not make any attacks in this round and takes one wound with no armor saves allowed.

The other night I played with "HIM" and three assaults in a row I rolled ones for his demon weapon :D I dont even want to think about the odds of that happening. But yeah from now in I will not be saying "HIS" name before I roll for his demon weapon...Also in the rules for demon weapons the codex says rolll the dice before the model is about to attack. I dont know if this means after the assault move or before

as I understood it you charge in and then when working out the dice for the attacking then you roll to see what mood your sword is on today, so you are going 4 attacks base, plus 1 for charging, plus x for daemon weapon (praying to which evr of the gods has been listening to you that its not a 1)

[Azulz]

Mmmmmmm can't really decide between termies for fluff or bezerkers for killyness. Does Abby get paralysed by his daemon weapon if he rolls a 1 for the attacks or does he have perfect mastery over it?

If he rolls a 1 the model may not make any attacks in this round and takes one wound with no armor saves allowed.

The other night I played with "HIM" and three assaults in a row I rolled ones for his demon weapon :D I dont even want to think about the odds of that happening. But yeah from now in I will not be saying "HIS" name before I roll for his demon weapon...Also in the rules for demon weapons the codex says rolll the dice before the model is about to attack. I dont know if this means after the assault move or before

as I understood it you charge in and then when working out the dice for the attacking then you roll to see what mood your sword is on today, so you are going 4 attacks base, plus 1 for charging, plus x for daemon weapon (praying to which evr of the gods has been listening to you that its not a 1)

yeah well my prayers fall on deaf ears lol

[IronWinds]

In the 3.5 codex wasn't there an article about Abby's chosen, and how each was so scary assassination forces had been sent after them never to return. Why not them? Make a big IC squad. Abby and 4 other lords, each with thier own nasty equipment and marks. Obviously not something you want to do in anything short of Apoc, and even then you would want something tougher than a LR. Still a VERY interesting idea.

 

 

On the subject of what to use in a real game. I would say terminators w/ MoCG. Don't run with any other mark. I've seen a squad with Abby and 4 MoT termies run because they rolled an 11. Not fun. With Abby and 4 terminators it is highly unlikely you will ever have to deal with a big negative modifier. Assuming they killed nothing... which is unlikely you would have to loose multiple terminators and put a couple wounds on Abby to dig up a big negative, and even then if your doing that bad it doens't look good anyways.

[Azulz]

In the 3.5 codex wasn't there an article about Abby's chosen, and how each was so scary assassination forces had been sent after them never to return. Why not them? Make a big IC squad. Abby and 4 other lords, each with thier own nasty equipment and marks. Obviously not something you want to do in anything short of Apoc, and even then you would want something tougher than a LR. Still a VERY interesting idea.

 

 

On the subject of what to use in a real game. I would say terminators w/ MoCG. Don't run with any other mark. I've seen a squad with Abby and 4 MoT termies run because they rolled an 11. Not fun. With Abby and 4 terminators it is highly unlikely you will ever have to deal with a big negative modifier. Assuming they killed nothing... which is unlikely you would have to loose multiple terminators and put a couple wounds on Abby to dig up a big negative, and even then if your doing that bad it doens't look good anyways.

Yeah pretty much sounds like the Chaos Conclave formation for apoc.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

I dont even want to think about the odds of that happening.

 

 

1 in 216 :lol:

[Azulz]

I dont even want to think about the odds of that happening.

 

 

1 in 216 ;)

:P Than tha thanks man, I really appreciate that...no really di did I tell you how much I appreciate that.....psshhh :)

[Rain]

I dont even want to think about the odds of that happening.

 

 

1 in 216 :P

:) Than tha thanks man, I really appreciate that...no really di did I tell you how much I appreciate that.....psshhh :)

 

1/216 isn't even that rare, and because dice rolls are independent probability events the chance of a one are 1/6 for a given roll even if you just rolled 1's for 5 proceeding turns :). That's actually why I really really hate the new daemon weapon rules. They backfire far too often and the price of a backfire is too high. I'm ok with the wound, but not letting the model attack is just preposterous, the old rules were far better.

 

More on topic, if I use my counts as Abaddon he runs with berzerkers in a land raider. It's alright but I mostly use it as a for fun unit in apoc and whatnot, it's too expensive otherwise and although would work against some armies, railgun happy tau would put the damper on it right quick making cheaper and more numerous rhino squads and flying princes a better idea.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

In the 3.5 codex wasn't there an article about Abby's chosen, and how each was so scary assassination forces had been sent after them never to return. Why not them? Make a big IC squad. Abby and 4 other lords, each with thier own nasty equipment and marks. Obviously not something you want to do in anything short of Apoc, and even then you would want something tougher than a LR. Still a VERY interesting idea.

 

 

On the subject of what to use in a real game. I would say terminators w/ MoCG. Don't run with any other mark. I've seen a squad with Abby and 4 MoT termies run because they rolled an 11. Not fun. With Abby and 4 terminators it is highly unlikely you will ever have to deal with a big negative modifier. Assuming they killed nothing... which is unlikely you would have to loose multiple terminators and put a couple wounds on Abby to dig up a big negative, and even then if your doing that bad it doens't look good anyways.

 

These are the Chosen of Abbadon. That is not the same as his bodyguard.