WH/DH Force Weapons: Not Slain Outright?

[Vivaldi]

Well not Vulkan's cloack, because he doesn't grand said rule but I was talking about Lysander (who I'm sure you meant).

 

Concerning GW not specifically mentioning the Force Weapons... Lets be honest about it, GW doesn't 'Fix' a lot of rule glitches.

The storm shields, to me at least, is an ambomination. ( I can't see it justified that DA are issued 'weaker' storm shields than the rest of the AA)

 

This would be the same kind of ambomination, granted, but it is the game we play. The 'issue' is RAW vs RAI... or perhaps not even that(because both RAW and RAI would indicade there is no immunity. The issue is 5th ed. rule book stating codex > Rulebook vs a 4th ed. codex).

Until DH get upgraded, I'd say DH have stronger force weapons, just as DA have weaker Storm Shields ! (which at least, can be justitfied, they are the inquisition!)

 

CHeers

[mega_marines]

Well not Vulkan's cloack, because he doesn't grand said rule but I was talking about Lysander (who I'm sure you meant).

 

Concerning GW not specifically mentioning the Force Weapons... Lets be honest about it, GW doesn't 'Fix' a lot of rule glitches.

The storm shields, to me at least, is an ambomination. ( I can't see it justified that DA are issued 'weaker' storm shields than the rest of the AA)

 

This would be the same kind of ambomination, granted, but it is the game we play. The 'issue' is RAW vs RAI... or perhaps not even that(because both RAW and RAI would indicade there is no immunity. The issue is 5th ed. rule book stating codex > Rulebook vs a 4th ed. codex).

Until DH get upgraded, I'd say DH have stronger force weapons, just as DA have weaker Storm Shields ! (which at least, can be justitfied, they are the inquisition!)

 

CHeers

Hah, indeed. But this is where conflict comes to a head. Edition lag causes internal conflict that won't ever be solved until the book is updated again.

[gil galed]

Remember how I said RAI is circumstancial?

And remember DIFFERENT RULES INTERPRETATIONS?

And if out of date wargear still has rules, explain the DH and WH psychic abilities which affect "Instability checks", a rule no longer used. The powers are still usable, are they not? If that's the logic you're applying, then you're pushing yourself in a corner. By my definition, and other members of this board, ALL Force Weapons cause Instant Death simply by applying our version of common sense. By your definition, and other members of this board, those SPECIFIC Force Weapons do not cause Intstant Death, but still Slay Outright by your variation of common sense. See why Different Interpretations will always lead to conflicts? In all ideals, we won't be agreeing on this matter because we both have proof of our claims, though they contradict one another. The best we can do is agree to disagree.

 

This argument makes little sense.

 

When we discuss the effect of a force weapon when arn't doing so in reference to an archaic rule that is no longer "in use". The force weapon in 3rd ed. as has already been widely stated, but ignored it seems by you, was not reference in the 3rd ed. codex to my knowledge. It's rules were purely contained within the various codex's. As such when we read "slain outright" etc. if those words were good enough in GW's mind to get across their point (which they clearly were) it is it's own self defined rule that needs no reference for it to continuing working. As such when we move to 4th (which did reference slaying outright) then 5th which has instant death force weapons the DH/WH FW must still be able to work under it's original rules and own volition as it did under 3rd ed. For this reason there is no logical way in which the DH/WH FW should fail to ignore eternal warrior.

 

In contrast the DH/WH rules that reference instability tests cannot be considered stand alone rules as to work they reference another rule which is not self contained within the codices (ignoring the "home play" rules in C:DH). As such it seems perfectly reasonably that the psychic powers forcing instability checks have no effect as instability tests no longer exist.

 

By Contrast nothing has been taken away from the DH/WH FW rules to make it stop working as it is a Self contained and sustaining rule set.

 

If I were still store manager, I'd ask a player who intended to use the RAW version of this rule to kindly leave or use Rules As Intended. Mind you I was a GW Blackshirt...

 

This doesn't make any sense though :rolleyes: , how do you know GW intended all force weapons to cause instant death, if the BRB still explicitly contains the intention that codex's overule the BRB and outdated pieces of wargear should use their own rules set (smoke launchers) it seems pretty obvious that RAI supports force weapons, Grey Knight Grand Masters should be able to slay outright all those nasty greater daemons :D

 

 

 

 

p.s Out of interest how many people here are arguing against FW ignoring EW who haven't had a precious lysander (who statistically should beat a GM)/other model killed by a GKGM?

 

p.p.s I feel RAI is a slippery slope when it comes to rules, we all know GW never intended dual lash lists to be used, why? Because they thought the cost of two daemon princes would be too prohibitive, but that doesn't stop us saying "No duel lash lists, it's against RAI", so i think we should stick to RAW when it comes to contentious issues

[Isiah]

[...] how do you know GW intended all force weapons to cause instant death, if the BRB still explicitly contains the intention that codex's overule the BRB and outdated pieces of wargear should use their own rules set (smoke launchers) it seems pretty obvious that RAI supports force weapons, Grey Knight Grand Masters should be able to slay outright all those nasty greater daemons ;)

 

I agree.

 

You must always follow the individual Codex where rules differ from the main rulebook. Thus such force weapons that "slay outright" play as per their own rules and should not be shoe-horned into being weapons that cause "instant death", despite how similar the effect might or might not be.

 

Until such weapons are FAQ'd (if that is what GW intend to do to bring them into 5th's sphere) then that's how they should be played.