Forseti Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Who exactly pilots and operates weaponry in the Space Wolves Rhinos,Preds,Thunderhawks,Raiders,etc..? I have a decent amount of Wolves and was pondering building creating a whole Great Company (one of the smaller ones, say 200-300strong) and the thought occured that since each company has basically all it's own ships and vehicles, if they're manned by Grey hunters then a significant amount of those 200-300 would simply be in vehicles.. 2 in Speeders, 2 in Rhinos/Razorbacks, atleast 2 in preds, probably 3+ in Raiders etc.. So is there any definate fluff on who mans their vehicles or anyone have any suggestions? EDIT: Oh and sorry if this has been asked before, the search function seems to hate me, always getting errors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I've not come across anything definitave, but I think it might be a case of it all depends on the chapter. Some things I've read seem to indicate servitor style crew, or at least non-astartes, and some suggest astartes crew. Most don't ever specify. I myself favour the suggestions of astartes crew in vehicles, and I believe it makes far more sense too, as they are battle-trained warriors and far more suited to the situation. Looking at the recent Space Marines codex - Antaro Chronus is a strong argument in the direction of astartes vehicle crew. However I don't think that these astartes are normally counted in the number of astartes in a company. At least in a codex chapter there is 100 marines, and then support vehicles, which have to be manned. Most battle vehicles in a codex chapter would come from the armoury though, and it wouldn't make sense to split up squads and in order to crew battletanks, that more likely have set crew teams to each vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Edit: my bad, clicked link to "Great Companies" and it paired Salamanders and Wolves together heh, seems their Companies are 120, elsewhere it said 150-1000 per company.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 In the novel "Sons of Fenris" during the assault landing the author addresses this a little. It says that as the Brothers show proficiencies in one area or another they can be sent on to more specialized duty. (I'm not quoting) It does say specifically that the Thunder Hawk is crewed by Greyhunters. I believe that in one of the other "Ragnar" books (by William King) it takes about the Greyhunters piloting the Thunderhawks. From what I understand the standard chapter marines have techmarines operating tanks and the like. I would imagine that tanks crews might have an Iron Priest with a Greyhunter crew. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaeus Marius Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 If you read the vehicle's profile in the Codex, it will tell you that they are crewed by Space Marines. The only SW vehicles I have ever heard or read about not being crewed by actual Marines, are the Space ships. Those are crewed by Bondsmen. In all other Chapters, the vehicles are drawn from the Chapter armory, and crewed by Marines from the company itself (minus a few Company-specific command vehicles Marneus Clgar's personal LR to name one...). All Space Marines sre trained to crew/ pilot all the vehicles available to the Chapter. Those with particular proficiency are allocated to crew some vehicle almost exclusively, though these usually take the form of TH gunships, or LR and Preds. They are still drawn from the Battle company however. In larger engagements, where the whole company's strength is needed, the crew can be drawn from one of the Reserve Companies, each of whom specializes in certain vehicles. In the case of the SW, I would say that if you're using a whole GC, then the crew would be drawn from the Great Wolf's company. The Wolves have no reserve companies, so I'm only guessing at this. The maximum crew for any SM vehicle, with the exeption of the SH flyers, is 2, A driver and a Gunner. The SM vehicles use a lot more sofisticated targeting equipment, and are able to interface directly with the vehicles systems, due to the use of their Power Armor. That's why they don't need as many crew members as the IG. You can find all of this info in the varius EA books, Codex from previous editions, and the BL novels. Sorry if I was a little long-winded, and hope this helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Additionally there are Marines attached to the Armory that aren't techmarines such as Chronus. It's possible and probable that vehicles sometimes or perhaps even are often crewed by marines specifically in service to the Armory. But that's just a hypothesis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Well.... theres always William King- who has Ragnar wishing to be a thunderhawk pilot once he becomes a Grey Hunter. Id say the pilots are all Astartes... why let the best of the best be transported by anything less? Ship crews I can understand... you need thousands to run it, but a thunderhawk could use the improved reaction speed and stamina. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growler67 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Models/Space%20Wolves/DSC01749.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Models/Space%20Wolves/DSC01747.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Models/Space%20Wolves/DSC01748.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 my line of thought has always been the crew of SW tanks are those wolf brothers whose packs become too depelted from constant war. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 in one of the novels it describes ragnar having the choice of becoming a bloodclaw (or grey hunter i cant remember) or joining the pilots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runepriest2007 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 The first codex we have states that all vehicles have Grey Hunters for Crew, and I would presume, gunners. Makes sense, IMHO. Runepriest Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewi Sant Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 The way I see it Grey Hunters crew fast attack, transport veh and thunderhawks and long fangs man my predator and other heavy options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Yeah it does make sense that GH pilot our vehicles, but I've seen a fair few gunners modelled/painted with admech shoulders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Yeah it does make sense that GH pilot our vehicles, but I've seen a fair few gunners modelled/painted with admech shoulders. I did that too, doesn't mean they aren't still Grey Hunters just cause they got a Cog on the shoulder, you could just consider it a pack marking or symbol that these Grey Hunters are gunners and drivers rather than members of a particular Pack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewi Sant Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 When I add more transport options I'm planning on giving that particular vehicle driver/gunner/commander the same pack marking as the troops he his is moving about the battle field. In really life the driver/gunner/commander providing intermit support to there dismounts have all been troops on the ground at some stage in the careers and understand the TTP's used, as well as conducting training together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Who exactly pilots and operates weaponry in the Space Wolves Rhinos,Preds,Thunderhawks,Raiders,etc..? I have a decent amount of Wolves and was pondering building creating a whole Great Company (one of the smaller ones, say 200-300strong) and the thought occured that since each company has basically all it's own ships and vehicles, if they're manned by Grey hunters then a significant amount of those 200-300 would simply be in vehicles.. 2 in Speeders, 2 in Rhinos/Razorbacks, atleast 2 in preds, probably 3+ in Raiders etc.. So is there any definate fluff on who mans their vehicles or anyone have any suggestions? Codex Space Marine 4th Edition and the Imperial Armour books do indicate how many crew the various vehicles. Although they do, sometimes, conflict. While it is not Codex Space Wolves, I believe they would have similar if not exactly the same crew numbers. Rhino/Razorback 1 Predator (all variants)/Vindicator/Whirlwind 2 Damocles (from Imperial Armour 2) 3 Land Speeder 2 Land Speeder Tempest 1 Land Raider (most variants) 2 (IA2) or 3 (C:SM) Thunderhawk 4 (pilot,c-pilot, gunner, and navigator according to IA2) I pulled out what I had and quickly compiled this list for you. Should be of help. PS Greetings and salutations from your friends in the Unforgiven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Once they become a GH they have the option of staying with a squad, becoming a wolf scout, training to become a rune priest if the is any talent, or becoming a vehicle operator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Once they become a GH they have the option of staying with a squad, becoming a wolf scout, training to become a rune priest if the is any talent, or becoming a vehicle operator. Depending on where their talents lay of course. If I remember correctly, Wolf Scouts are selected for their more solitary nature (do not play well with others). The talents necessary for other "occupations" are pretty much self-explanatory. PS Greetings and salutations from your friends in the Unforgiven, again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for the info ^^ I know none of this is even remotely affects how I play or how I'll build the rest of my army, but is just one of those things that got stuck in my head so had to ask heh.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Once they become a GH they have the option of staying with a squad, becoming a wolf scout, training to become a rune priest if the is any talent, or becoming a vehicle operator. Depending on where their talents lay of course. If I remember correctly, Wolf Scouts are selected for their more solitary nature (do not play well with others). The talents necessary for other "occupations" are pretty much self-explanatory. PS Greetings and salutations from your friends in the Unforgiven, again. Greetings and welcome from the Fang. Id have to say your comments are spot-on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for the info ^^ I know none of this is even remotely affects how I play or how I'll build the rest of my army, but is just one of those things that got stuck in my head so had to ask heh.. Same here. I like knowing the background to Nth degree. Almost an@l about it. PS This Unforgiven does hearby challenge you at the alehouse. I will buy the first round and you get to tell me some lies about Space Wolf prowess on the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmellon Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Who exactly pilots and operates weaponry in the Space Wolves Rhinos,Preds,Thunderhawks,Raiders,etc..? I have a decent amount of Wolves and was pondering building creating a whole Great Company (one of the smaller ones, say 200-300strong) and the thought occured that since each company has basically all it's own ships and vehicles, if they're manned by Grey hunters then a significant amount of those 200-300 would simply be in vehicles.. 2 in Speeders, 2 in Rhinos/Razorbacks, atleast 2 in preds, probably 3+ in Raiders etc.. So is there any definate fluff on who mans their vehicles or anyone have any suggestions? Codex Space Marine 4th Edition and the Imperial Armour books do indicate how many crew the various vehicles. Although they do, sometimes, conflict. While it is not Codex Space Wolves, I believe they would have similar if not exactly the same crew numbers. Rhino/Razorback 1 Predator (all variants)/Vindicator/Whirlwind 2 Damocles (from Imperial Armour 2) 3 Land Speeder 2 Land Speeder Tempest 1 Land Raider (most variants) 2 (IA2) or 3 (C:SM) Thunderhawk 4 (pilot,c-pilot, gunner, and navigator according to IA2) I pulled out what I had and quickly compiled this list for you. Should be of help. PS Greetings and salutations from your friends in the Unforgiven. I would have to disagree with your personnel count on the rhinos and razorbacks, they have 2, a driver and a gunner, hence the two marines in the box Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmellon Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Once they become a GH they have the option of staying with a squad, becoming a wolf scout, training to become a rune priest if the is any talent, or becoming a vehicle operator. Depending on where their talents lay of course. If I remember correctly, Wolf Scouts are selected for their more solitary nature (do not play well with others). The talents necessary for other "occupations" are pretty much self-explanatory. PS Greetings and salutations from your friends in the Unforgiven, again. Greetings and welcome from the Fang. Id have to say your comments are spot-on. wolf scouts can also be selected if they are the last members of their pack, because they way i read it, they wont be accepted in another pack. This makes sense because packs or formed within the first few weeks of training and by the time they are GHs they ahave been together for at least a decade. and wasnt it Sven who wanted to be a thunderhawk pilot, not Ragnar? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forseti Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 If I remember right when a pack is down to its last member they take lead of a blood claw pack, something about the old hardened warriors leading the new recruits.. *runs off to find his codex to double check* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewi Sant Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I would have to disagree with your personnel count on the rhinos and razorbacks, they have 2, a driver and a gunner, hence the two marines in the box I'm Sorry your wrong. Imperial Armour Volume 2, Clearly states that both Rhinos and Razorbacks have 1 Crew Member. Taking a look at a Rhino the seating plan, it denotes 9 Pax are positioned in the Troop compartment to the Rear, front R/H seat is taken by the driver and the front L/H seat taken by the Pack Leader. A Blood Claw is not promoted to Grey Hunter with out the say so of his Wolf Lord it doesn't matter if he is the only one left from his Claw. If you read the Ragnar books (3rd book I think) you will see Ragnar's Claw has been re-enforced with new Blood Claws, as he and Sven are the only ones left from the original pack formed in training @ Russvik. While Ragnar isn't the Pack Leader he does have some responsibility place on him, a 2i/c if you like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176014-sw-drivers-and-gunners/#findComment-2080803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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