Predator Configurations

[Grey Mage]

The primary targets for any long-ranged anti-tank vehicle are going to be Rhinos, Land Speeders, Dreadnoughts, IG artillery vehicles, and other vehicles with AV 10-12. Autocannons perform acceptably against all these targets.

Unless Im playing against marines, chaos marines, tau, grey knights or tyranids.

 

Marines Im going to want to take out predators, vindicators, landraiders and dreads- most of wich are AV 13-14. Chaos Marines I find its just Preds and Vindicators....

Grey Knights it will almost always be Land Raiders.

Tau and Tyranids both have alot of high toughness targets where the autocannon starts to do well, and then encounters a low armor save and stalls. Against tau its a potential glancing hit or two against their battle tanks, but not as good as a TLLC, though yes its significantly cheaper. Still, primary tank thread is AV 13 for tau, or 2+/3+ saves for suits.

 

And Br.Pat: A lascannon has a 4+ to affect AV 13.... all you need is a 1 to keep it from firing the next turn. Everything else is just gravy :).

[Chengar Qordath]

The autocannon is supposedly very good at popping light vehicles... on paper

 

A rhino however has AV 11 at the front. That would mean a 4+ to just glance and a 5+ to penetrate. Whilst the lascannon glances on a 2+ and penetrates on a 3+. I prefer one 3+ to two 5+. Anyone up for mathammer?

Two Autocannon shots with a 1/3 chance to penetrate each vs. One Lascannon shot with a 2/3 chance to penetrate sounds pretty close to me.

 

Of course, the autocannon also has the virtue of being substantially cheaper than a Lascannon.

[Grey Mage]

The autocannon is supposedly very good at popping light vehicles... on paper

 

A rhino however has AV 11 at the front. That would mean a 4+ to just glance and a 5+ to penetrate. Whilst the lascannon glances on a 2+ and penetrates on a 3+. I prefer one 3+ to two 5+. Anyone up for mathammer?

Two Autocannon shots with a 1/3 chance to penetrate each vs. One Lascannon shot with a 2/3 chance to penetrate sounds pretty close to me.

 

Of course, the autocannon also has the virtue of being substantially cheaper than a Lascannon.

The lascannon has the advantage of being able to penetrate AV 13 and 14.

[chapter master 454]

I take in one list two preds, one is an AC&LC sponsons the other is a TLLC&HB sponsons. The two are yet to let me down in what I do with them, with the AC and LCs I can sit back at 48" (remember autocannons are 48" which is a great boost which helps and is for some reason forgotten by most) and pummel ether heavy infantry to the ground or punish any light tank that strays out (it is the designated light tank destroyer, will engage any other armour the autcannon can also potientally effect) which so far it does well with 2 lascannons and 2 autocannon shots. Better to overkill than underkill. The second takes less light armour and mainly provides cover fire for my men or area denial. Perosnally Preds like the tri-las and dakka in my opinion while nice are just not grade A to what it can do. However mine tend to keep running because I have also a vindicator, 2 venerable dreds (AC/DCCW), a tactical squad and a MotF with 5 tech servitors coming at them plus the hellfire from my conversion beamer on my other MotF with 2 Plasma cannon servitors plus other stuff.

 

Use preds right and they will clean clocks, use them wrong and their clock shall be thoughly cleaned out with a melta bomb.

[Fetterkey]

The primary targets for any long-ranged anti-tank vehicle are going to be Rhinos, Land Speeders, Dreadnoughts, IG artillery vehicles, and other vehicles with AV 10-12. Autocannons perform acceptably against all these targets.

Unless Im playing against marines, chaos marines, tau, grey knights or tyranids.

 

Marines Im going to want to take out predators, vindicators, landraiders and dreads- most of wich are AV 13-14. Chaos Marines I find its just Preds and Vindicators....

Grey Knights it will almost always be Land Raiders.

 

Can you explain your target priority? Mine goes fast transports, other fast vehicles, transports, other vehicles, as this is the order in which vehicles are good at actually winning the game. In Kill Point missions, you want to pop the weaker transports anyway because they're easier points, and in Victory Point missions, you still want to pop the transports so you can kill the squishy troops inside and prevent them from getting in their short effective range.

[Grey Mage]

The primary targets for any long-ranged anti-tank vehicle are going to be Rhinos, Land Speeders, Dreadnoughts, IG artillery vehicles, and other vehicles with AV 10-12. Autocannons perform acceptably against all these targets.

Unless Im playing against marines, chaos marines, tau, grey knights or tyranids.

 

Marines Im going to want to take out predators, vindicators, landraiders and dreads- most of wich are AV 13-14. Chaos Marines I find its just Preds and Vindicators....

Grey Knights it will almost always be Land Raiders.

 

Can you explain your target priority? Mine goes fast transports, other fast vehicles, transports, other vehicles, as this is the order in which vehicles are good at actually winning the game. In Kill Point missions, you want to pop the weaker transports anyway because they're easier points, and in Victory Point missions, you still want to pop the transports so you can kill the squishy troops inside and prevent them from getting in their short effective range.

Depends on their transport to battle tank ratio. If they only have a single transport, well Ill probly pop it out of hand. If however they are a primarily mobile army I prefer to open by stopping the tank that is the largest threat to my own forces. For instance, as a wolf player my first priority would probly be a LRR, followed by vindicators, followed by dreadnaughts and then transports. As an example.

 

If I have little armor, I prefer to take out the threats to that armor before anything else. So if my main AV is a pair of dreads and a predator then Im going to want to take out enemy predators, railcannons, and MM attack bikes first off... and then downhill from there.

 

But having a set priority of targets is nearly impossible for me. The wide variety of army styles, per codex, from all codices, and then added into several mission types means I find it better to decide my priority each game afresh. The above are trends I have noticed. If an opponent hasnt created a balanced list the best thing I can do to give myself an edge is to remove whatever few units are helping them keep the basics *firepower, staying power, speed, flexability*. So as above- if an army has but one transport its best to pop it early, before they can use that bit of speed, allowing me to perhaps capitalize on their slowness.

 

The exception to this is tough units- unless the unit also fulfills a primary roll I find it best to ignore the tough unit tell later and wittle down their soft units quickly, giving me a pts advantage over them that I can hopefully capitalize upon when I go to take out the tough unit.

[Jaarl Stormfang]

The autocannon is supposedly very good at popping light vehicles... on paper

 

A rhino however has AV 11 at the front. That would mean a 4+ to just glance and a 5+ to penetrate. Whilst the lascannon glances on a 2+ and penetrates on a 3+. I prefer one 3+ to two 5+. Anyone up for mathammer?

Two Autocannon shots with a 1/3 chance to penetrate each vs. One Lascannon shot with a 2/3 chance to penetrate sounds pretty close to me.

 

It's actually a noticeable difference, but only for the chance to penetrate, not to destroy. With multiple dice rolls its easier to work out the chance it won't happen, then reverse it, otherwise mistaken maths leads you get conclusions like an assault cannon has 133% chance of a hit, which of course isn't true.

 

 

Chance that a lascannon hit doesn't penetrate is 1/3

Chance that neither shots of an autocannon penetrate is 2/3 * 2/3 = 4/9

 

 

Taking reciprocals, lascannon penetrates 66% of the time, autocannon penetrates at least once just 55% of the time. If you want to know logically why it's different when it seems it should be the same, it's because the autocannon effectively "wastes" some of its chance to get at least one pen, in order to have the potential to have 2.

 

When you take into account the destroyed result the autocannon will catch back up because there's an 11% chance (here's where the difference came from) it gets 2 penetrating hits so 2 rolls on the damage table.

 

So if you really, really want to force a pen roll on that AV11, use the lascannon. Otherwise, use the autocannon. It's cheaper for the same effect.

 

 

EDIT:

Thought I'd also throw my 2 cents about target priority. For me it's the quishiest thing that will cause me the most amount of damage, soonest. (late damage is worth less than early damage, as it leaves more guns firing longer) MM attack bikes very high on the list, land raider redeemer very low on the list.

[minigun762]

So, I've seen tons of posts and lists advocating the use of the "Dakkapred" (Autocannon turret, heavy bolter sponsons). Some of these also advocate adding a pintle-mounted storm bolter. I've also seen several posters advocate the tri-las Predator.

 

Why are either of these tanks considered good at all? To me, it seems that the lascannon turret is drastically overpriced and the Dakkapred is markedly inferior to the Whirlwind or Thunderfire.

 

My current thinking is that the best deal for the Predator is the Combi-variant.

AutoCannon/LasCannons.

Use it to target enemy transports, walkers, light vehicles, MCs or heavy infantry (usually in that order)

 

Everything has a 48" range so remaining static isn't much of a drawback.

 

This kind of unit is especially helpful for Loyalists, who don't have access to Obliterators (and who have cheaper Predators).

[Koremu]

So, I've seen tons of posts and lists advocating the use of the "Dakkapred" (Autocannon turret, heavy bolter sponsons). Some of these also advocate adding a pintle-mounted storm bolter. I've also seen several posters advocate the tri-las Predator.

 

Why are either of these tanks considered good at all? To me, it seems that the lascannon turret is drastically overpriced and the Dakkapred is markedly inferior to the Whirlwind or Thunderfire.

 

My current thinking is that the best deal for the Predator is the Combi-variant.

AutoCannon/LasCannons.

Use it to target enemy transports, walkers, light vehicles, MCs or heavy infantry (usually in that order)

 

Everything has a 48" range so remaining static isn't much of a drawback.

 

This kind of unit is especially helpful for Loyalists, who don't have access to Obliterators (and who have cheaper Predators).

I was using one of those last night as it goes. It's nice because it outranges Bright Lances :D

[Grey Mage]

Sad story of the eldar- PHNOMENAL COSMIC POWER!Sad story of the eldar- PHNOMENAL COSMIC POWER!

 

itty bitty range.

 

itty bitty range.

[ChainsawDR]

Only played one game with my Ac & LC sponsons pred - but it was MVP. Cheap at 120pts, first lascannon hit & penetrated but didn't damage - however my second shot blew up the enemy vehicle (two attempts at the vehicle damage chart compared to the one of the TLLC). It also drew fire and survived and when I did lose a weapon my opponent had to chose between an AC or 1 of 2 LC's. They chose one LC and the next turn my other LC blew up the offending vehicle.

 

The TLLC version is pricier, and in my opinion is too many eggs in one basket - just hope the combi-pred survives the new SW codex! Can't rate it highly enough, but it needs something like a vindicator to add template fire to the army.