Need a rules interpretation...

[Alrich_40000]

Hey everyone.. I'm pretty new to the game. I have bought a crapton of Space Marines and am looking to begin building my army. I've not played a game yet but I feel I have a good academic understanding of the rules and the Codices. After glancing through the Marine Codex I thought about getting a Land Speeder Storm or two for my force.

 

Looking through the vehicle's rules and special equipment, I noticed something and I wanted to see if anyone had thought of this or encountered it. The Storm comes with the Teleport Jammer to interfere with deep striking and items that help prevent scatter. If you read the sentence carefully it says that "Teleport Homers, Chaos Icons, and similar items that prevent deep strike scatter do not function within 6" of the Storm."

 

:huh:

 

Did that just say that Chaos Icons don't work near a Storm?

 

Looking at it from a writing and grammar standpoint, if you drop out the "Teleport homers" and "similar items that prevent scatter" parts, the sentence reads "Chaos Icons do not function near the Storm." So it doesn't say that Icons keep their other benefits but lose the teleport homing feature, it says that the Icons flat-out no longer function. Does that mean that Scout Speeders are a great anti-Chaos vehicle?

 

I'm looking for some veteran players' expert opinions, so thanks for the help guys!

[gmsniper]

You would have a pretty hard time convincing someone that their Chaos Icon loses its other abilities.

 

What other abilities does a chaos icon have?

 

Super disceting of the English Language to find a rule that better suits your needs is something I have a major problem with in this game.

 

Droping out phrases from a rule as written (RAW) is changing the rule......

The thing to remember is that the rule specifically states preventing deep strike scatter, that is what it prevents not other abilities.

[greatcrusade08]

Is it not enough to gaurantee Ds'ing units scatter?

 

When i played a khorne daemon army, i used the LSS as screens, which often meant i got another turn of shooting with some of my units.

 

 

Gc08

[OwlandMoonGuy]

Hello Alrich & welcome to the B&C:

 

The overall tendency in 40K rules is that they just fall one or two words short of being absolutely clear. Certain players sometimes use that to their advantage but that doesn’t excuse the rules from being ambiguous enough to allow them to do so. At the same time you do need to leave a little room for contextualization.

 

So in context, the rule here relates to enemy war gear that reduces or negates the random nature of the scatter die when Deep Striking. So despite the fact that the statement says that Chaos Icons, “do not function” we need to keep it in the realm of scattering after a Deep Strike and that’s it.

 

That’s an interesting catch as I’ve never heard of anyone seeing that statement before. It certainly would be a tough sell to convince a Chaos player that their Mark of X god stopped working altogether because a speeder just flew by.

 

-OMG

[Grandmaster damion]

If you aply ultra strict RAW the whole icon stops working so yes the mark goes away (if it says does not function all abiltys turn off not just one)

 

HOWEVER this is a bit of a git thing to do and I DO NOT support this thinking and would never play it this way I just want us all singing from the same sheet as to what the rule actualy says so we can agree on what tweeks and houserules are needed.

 

in this case I think the icons other abilities should still be in affect

 

 

Cheers GMD

[nighthawks]

agreed that the icon overall continues to work, and I'll add that RAW supports the case, as whole sentences must be considered, not words selected piecemeal in order to make the case for an argument, particularly one that is outside of the declared scope of the item's rules.

[Kadaeux]

RAW suggests that it would not function at all.

 

RAI may be different.

 

HOWEVER as a Chaos Player (as well as Ultramarines, Necrons, Tyranids, Orks and Eldar player) I WOULD in this case play it RAW.

 

If the object can disrupt Chaos Icons teleportation functions that means the jammers can in some way interfere with the Psyker crap of an Icon and would, logically, extend to other psychic-related abilities of the Jammer.

 

But thats just a personal opinion, I wouldn't force that ruling on anyone else (unless they were willing to use it against me in which i'd expect the same courtesy extended with role reversal)

[Grandmaster damion]

As I read it RAW, the wargear does not function therefore all functions stop; as an analogy lets say an icon is a mobile phone, the 'god power' is calls and the 'no scatter' is texts right? Well then, if I turn the phone off you would have no access to calls or texts, correct?

 

Now the RAI is a different matter I fully believe they intended to only turn off the ability to not scatter but worded it very badly

[Isiah]

The sentence should be read in the context of ALL the words together. Jamming beacon rule only alludes to teleport homers, chaos icons etc that have the ability to "prevent deep strike scatter" not working – ie the preventing of the deep strike scatter bit ceases to function.

 

All other aspect of the icons, ie mark-granting, continues to function as normal. Not least because these other aspects have nothing to do with preventing scatter – the primary beacon function after all.

[Grandmaster damion]

Which would be fine if they had not included the fraze 'do not function' this is an absolute statement it now no longer works in its entirity as they forget to include a qualifiyer that it only effects the 'homing function' they just told us that the wargear in efect turns of taking all benafits with it

 

As another point of view where does it state that you keep the other function?

 

 

I will restate that this is not how I would play it nor what was intended its down to bad language/grammer