Kahn Tatics?

[Duce]

Hey,

 

I was randomly pondering after reading Kahn's special rule of allowing dedicated transports to outflank. This got me thinking, landraiders appearing hopefully on a flank, rhinos with sternguard and tact marines, add that in with Drop pod dreadnaughts and a drop pod tactical squad to allow 3rd pod so ironclad an normal dread could drop first turn. Have people tried this type of tatic? and if so how has it worked out?

 

I did a search and found some small mentions of Kahn and his mention in the math hammer of reserves topic i think it was but ws curious who has attempted this style o list where if you get first turn you can have 2 dreads and hopefully a landraider with termies and a rhino appearing in the enemy deployment zone.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

If you are outflanking most of the army you probably don't want your dreads coming in 1st turn as they would be unsupported, potentially for several turns.

[Paulochromis]

I did a search and found some small mentions of Kahn ...

You'd find a lot more if you spelled Khan right ;)

Brother Tual and greatcrusade08 both ran lists with Khan on foot, discussed at length in the Codex SM Lists section and/or UM thread.

 

Cheers, Paul.

[DarkGuard]

I used to run a 1000pt list with Khan, a Command Squad with Company Champion, 2 Tactical Squads with meltaguns,power fists and Rhinos, and a 5 man Scout Squad with sniper rifles, and 3 bikes with 2 meltaguns with an MM attack bike attached (the days before I got my other 2 ABs).

 

Impressions? The psychological threat of Tacticals being able to attack up to 26" from their board edge is quite frightening and amusing at times. One of my friends told my opponent to deploy in the centre of the field, because of the fact that the Tacticals could be devestating.

 

IMO a Khan list is flexible in that it can be used in attack and defense. In one game I sent one Rhino Squad to lead the attack while the other dealt with a Sternguard Squad that had podded into my deployment zone. Khan and a Command Squad may be pricy but that's a lot of S5 I5+6 attacks, a few of which are power weapon, and Khan, who I feel is a little fragile, gets some cover from shooting and FNP. Also, the ability to have such a potent weapon launching assaults by turn 2 is a nice threat to have.

 

However, I feel that when using such a list, it is worth to divide your army into two parts, the part that will deploy, and the part that will outflank. With all your army outflanking, you are left to the whims of the Dice Gods and at times your army will come on in a blaze of glory wherever you want it, or in drips and drabs at places where you don't want it.

 

I would therefore say that because of this when using Khan you need to have a good firebase deployed on the table, including a troop unit, so you can claim and hold any objectives in your deployment, while having enough strong firepower to threaten the enemy, so your outflanking elements come in to mop up, take objectives, or help crack a particular strong enemy formation. Also, I would say it is also essential to use fast units when outflanking. By that I mean Tactical Squads in Rhinos, Assault Squads, Bike Squads (including Bike Command Squads), and , if you really want to, Terminator Assault Squads with a Land Raider (preferably the Redeemer) with Khan in that squad.

 

I would say that if you want to drop pod guys in, try and get a decent amount of models in first turn so they could do some damage and take some before your outflanking elements (and other Drop Pods come in).

 

If you were to ask about Moondraken, I'd say its a lot of points for something which will only work on its own, and Khan is too fragile to work on his own. The only reason to take it would be if you want to use Biker Troops (which would be very interesting with Outflank, although they probably wouldn't need it, so a normal Bike Captain would suffice there).

 

In conclusion, I'd say that Khan can either work brilliantly, or not too well. If you Outflank a lot of your forces, you're counting on luck a lot more than usual, something I don't like doing too much. At times it can be devastating, a dismantled an entire Blood Angels force that looked to be overwhelming my Scouts, but at other times dismal, such as when a Dark Eldar force dismantled me. It works better on smaller boards (like the 4 by 4 ones we use at my local GW), than the bigger boards that are suggested (6v4).

 

However, one final point. If you are ever in a team game, and your team mate has an army that won't be outflanking, deep striking, but deploying, a entire Khan army outflanking can be devastating. At my local GW we had a doubles tournament (1000pts each). My ally used a stand and shoot Dark Angels army, and I used my Khan list I listed above. With the Dark Angels being a solid firebase and taking objectives in our board half, I could come in at leisure and cause havoc in my opponents deployment zone. The combination was brilliant, with us winning 2 of our 3 games with ease (we still won the 3rd, but it was closer), and with us winning the tournament overall.

 

So I would recommend trying Khan and seeing if he works for you, but just remember that you will be putting a lot more risk into your reserve rolls. Good luck!

[ShinyRhino]

I feel like the real trick to using a Khan list is deciding what, if anything, will outflank. The crippling part is that you have to declare everything that will be outflanking during your initial deployment (when you declare reserves). No changing your mind later.

So, you have to take a look at the board, the terrain, placement of objectives, initial deployment method (Dawn of War? Pitched Battle? Spearhead?), and myriad other factors when deciding what will outflank.

If all of the objectives are near board edges, outflank fast-movers to grab them later in the game. If the objective are all on one side of the board, you're risking showing up 6' away from where you need to be. Of course, you have a 66% chance of showing up on the correct side. Your gamble to make.

Bikes and speeders can turbo-boost when coming on from an outflank move, so use it to your advantage to get deep into the board if you don't have a fat, juicy target for them within attack range.

 

Outflanking (and reserves in general) are great for Annihilation missions. Your surprise attacks from the flanks have a good chance of popping things like transports and low-numbers units. The longer your stuff is off the board, the fewer killpoints your opponent can rack up early. He'll be scrambling to make up points in turns 4 and 5.

[DarkGuard]

Of course, I feel it's worth a mention that the new Imperial Guard lists could be a nightmare through the Master of the Fleet (is it that). Reserve roll negative modifiers and doesn't he make he re-roll Outflank rolls? Could be tricky to play against them if you Outflank.

[Koremu]

Of course, I feel it's worth a mention that the new Imperial Guard lists could be a nightmare through the Master of the Fleet (is it that). Reserve roll negative modifiers and doesn't he make he re-roll Outflank rolls? Could be tricky to play against them if you Outflank.

Actually, the Master of the Fleet is hillariously bad in some situations. Keeping all your Troops choices off the board while your killer units make precision attacks, and then only having your Troops exposed for one or two turns? I can work with that.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Khan can be devastating if you plan for the randomness that Outflank brings. Before the game and after deployment, plan how you will use your units deployed on the board to set up his army just right so that your outflanking units will have the ability to make immediate gains. As the turns progress, identify which enemy units are the biggest danger to your outflanking units (Devastator squads with unobstructed LOS to the board edges, counter-assault units near the center of the board, etc.) and use your units on the board to eliminate them, thereby keeping your outflanking units from being a one-shot wonder. Identify the targets of your Outflanking units early so that you can be prepared for correct deployment from the board edge.

 

I used Khan in 'Ard Boyz, and by always having a plan for my Outflanking units and destroying the units that threatened them the most, I was able to get to Nationals. It's a gutsy list, as bad rolls for Outflank can really hurt ya, but always having a plan to counteract that definitely helps.

[metcalfedan]

Of course, I feel it's worth a mention that the new Imperial Guard lists could be a nightmare through the Master of the Fleet (is it that). Reserve roll negative modifiers and doesn't he make he re-roll Outflank rolls? Could be tricky to play against them if you Outflank.

Cough cough, Damocles Rhino, Cough cough. Should be able to counter this a little, and help against other armies too :(