Pack-Lieutenant Rakt Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I'm planning on running a sorceror as my only HQ in an upcoming 1,750 point game, with wings and personal icon to deposite a few lesser daemons around, and Gift of Chaos to make use of my couple of spawn. However I could trim some points around my army and give him the mark of Tzeentch and Warp Time or Wind of Chaos or something, but that's a healthy points sink in one model. I'll be playing against Eldar, so with their strength 3 it's a 50% chance of spawndom when I get to grips with them, so as I've never used GoC before I'm definitely gicing it a go, but would an extra bit of sorcerous whammy help me out or would my points be better spent elsewhere? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Its really expensive, but yes its worth it. I run mine on Disk of Tzeentch for that extra attack in close combat (5 attacks, 6 on the charge with warptime and forceweapon) I run Warptime and Wind of Chaos. In combat he can warptime and forceweapon something. I've killed entire units with wind of chaos due to that reroll. Last game, I was able to drop the template so it caught 5 guys from an IG vet squad and 3 guys from the command squad. Killed almost everything I touched, and both squads ran off the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I second JamesI's Sorc make, though expensive its worthwhile to run it behind a raider or with a raptor unit to keep him alive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Yup Sorcerer with Disc, Warptime, Wind, and MOT is a killer. Expensive but dang effective with 4 MEQ kills on the charge and a good amount more from warptime. Put him in a unit of Raptors, lets say 8 with PF, 2x Melta Gun, and you choice of mark. and call it a day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Snips Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 If you are playing Eldar, he will most likely be running a Farseer that will shut down your Sorcerer. Having to roll three dice takes you from about an 82% success rate to a 50% rate. It is a real gamble to run psykers against Eldar armys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 That is true, if someone is running Eldar I usually try to get something in CC with the farseer ASAP. It doesnt matter if it kills him or not, just that he cant use his powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 MoTz is not worth it on a sorc IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 MoTz is not worth it on a sorc IMO. Agreed. Its a much cheaper upgrade on a Daemon Prince and frankly they're just as good. Warptime/Wind of Chaos is nutty but why not put it on a safer platform. As for the Warptime/Force Weapon trick, why not just use a Slaaneshi Daemon Weapon instead? Here is the numbers against a SM Captain/Master (non charging) Sorcerer = 4 attacks @ WS5 (RR) = 3 hits @ S4 (RR) = 2.25 wounds @ 4++ save = 1.12 wounds - chance to fail 2 psychic tests Slaaneshi Lord = 7 attacks @ WS6 = 3.5 hits @ S4 = 1.75 wounds @ 4++ save = 0.88 wounds - chance of rolling 1 For my money they're equivalent considering you have to pass 2 psychic tests vs a 1/6 chance of the Daemon Weapon rebelling. Then factor in the I6 vs 4++ save and the fairly big point difference and I say its a wash. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Sorcs are not the most competitive choice. The best way to run them is just mos and lash. If you are going to use a sorc other than this you want to go all the way though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbreaker Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 If you are playing Eldar, he will most likely be running a Farseer that will shut down your Sorcerer. Having to roll three dice takes you from about an 82% success rate to a 50% rate. It is a real gamble to run psykers against Eldar armys. If you do end up with that kind of spirit stone you can be assure that farseer is about 20-30 points more than your sorcerer will ever be... As I do play Eldar from time to time I know that whenever I make a list my farseer(Really, they're mandatory) end up costing 180-ish points... 180pts of hack-n-slash doom that will eat pretty much anything. :D But that's without the Runes of warding(3 dice for you thingy) which is expensive as heck... I'd rather have just Runes of witnessing instead(3 dice, remove highest for me, pretty much auto-pass on psy-tests). Mostly since it's cheaper and the times I fight chaos(I do from time to time) choosing the Runes of warding isn't really worth it. Sure, the sorcerer casts his stuff as normal and only gets perils 16,7% of the time but really... If he's in a rhino against me he's gonna feel the pleasure in acupuncture anyway... No need to throw out points making him useless that in turns make your character cost more than a LR... So go for it, MoT is a great thing, even though I've just glanced over the rules for most of the stuff in the CSM dex I can assure you that MoT is well worth it on a Sorcerer. :P Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2086924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Best way to run a sorc IMO is, unmarked with wings and doombolt, decient hth, and a useful shooty power and cheap, leaving lots of pts for the rest of the army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2087051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack-Lieutenant Rakt Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Thanks for the input folks. I've just found out that I'm playing Dark Eldar - will I have similar concerns using my psychic powers as I would with normal Eldar? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2087233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbreaker Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Thanks for the input folks. I've just found out that I'm playing Dark Eldar - will I have similar concerns using my psychic powers as I would with normal Eldar? No, not as far as I know... Every time I've played them there have been no such thing as 'Psychic powers'. Good luck, and just for the heck of it you should run a slanneshi prince. :lol: Eat them souls. :D Dark Eldar has no stones. Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2087268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I'm playing Dark Eldar - will I have similar concerns using my psychic powers as I would with normal Eldar? No they don't have the anti-psych stuff eldar have. Thet have 1 thing (don't remember the name) that they let out of the box and any psycher has to take a test or take a hit (str.6 I believe, or maybe it's autowound ?). But it's a 1 use thing, you probably won't see it b/c most DE players don't take it b/c it's just not that useful. Playing against DE you will eather win big or lose big. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2087288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack-Lieutenant Rakt Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Cheers Chillin! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2087343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azulz Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 That is true, if someone is running Eldar I usually try to get something in CC with the farseer ASAP. It doesnt matter if it kills him or not, just that he cant use his powers. A GW employee told me that farseer could still cast doom and guide while locked in combat....where could I ref the fact that he cant? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2089725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 That is true, if someone is running Eldar I usually try to get something in CC with the farseer ASAP. It doesnt matter if it kills him or not, just that he cant use his powers. A GW employee told me that farseer could still cast doom and guide while locked in combat....where could I ref the fact that he cant? The eldar codex and/or FAQ is the only place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2089728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'm playing Dark Eldar - will I have similar concerns using my psychic powers as I would with normal Eldar? No they don't have the anti-psych stuff eldar have. Thet have 1 thing (don't remember the name) that they let out of the box and any psycher has to take a test or take a hit (str.6 I believe, or maybe it's autowound ?). But it's a 1 use thing, you probably won't see it b/c most DE players don't take it b/c it's just not that useful. Playing against DE you will eather win big or lose big. Nah its a bit worse than that its removed from play so even eternal warrior on a DP won't help... but yer the nearest psyker has to take a Ld test at -1 (if within 12) or (+1) if over 24 away. If they pass it goes on to the next nearest and so on until one fails. Not normally a huge problem in itself, but if a sneaky dark eldar has managed to arrange his army so your taking multiple leadership modifiers he has a decent chance of 1 shot booming your sorcerer with the cruicible of malidiction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2089863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Against Dark Eldar a Tzeentchian Sorcerer would probably be one heck of an asset. Give him A disc, Warptime and Gift of Chaos and prepare for some serious fun. Dark Eldar armies often tend to rely on one of two or sometimes three deadly squads to beat you in close combat. Their Initiative is through the roof and since their transports are all open-topped, they're able to disembark after movement, run (due to Fleet) and then assault you. The squad that you want to watch for most is the Archon and his Retinue of Incubi. The Incubi themselves are no pushovers with a high WS and 2 S4 power weapon attacks per model with an Initiative equal to any of your non-Slaaneshi HQ choices. To top it all off they're protected by a 3+ armor save, so be prepared for a real beatdown if these guys get into close combat. However, the Incubi aren't half as deadly as the Archon himself, who'll probably be tricked out with combat drugs and a shadowfield, allowing him to artificially boost his stats in the assault phases with a slim chance of wounding himself, and a brutal 2+ Invulnerable save that ceases to function once its failed. If you do it right, you need only move your Tzeentchian Sorcerer within 6" of the Archon to attempt Gift of Chaos. If it works, you'll have managed to remove what is probably the single most dangerous independent character in the game as a threat since Invulnerable saves don't help against Gift, though the Incubi will still be a problem. I can't remember if the Mark of Tzeentch allows you to cast the same power multiple times per turn or not, nor am I able to recall if Gift of Chaos counts as a shooting attack. If you are able to use it twice a turn though, be sure to do so, as the less angry Eldar you have to fight in close combat the better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2090817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azulz Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That is true, if someone is running Eldar I usually try to get something in CC with the farseer ASAP. It doesnt matter if it kills him or not, just that he cant use his powers. A GW employee told me that farseer could still cast doom and guide while locked in combat....where could I ref the fact that he cant? Anyone know the answer to this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2091049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbreaker Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee324/roban365/random/EldarBLHA.jpg So no, unless the psychic power section says that psychic powers can be cast in combat... But he doesn't need LoS however... Evil~ This is not against the rules I hope... The misinterpretation seems to come from Doom's "The Farseer can target any non-vehicle unit within 24"" and Guide's "Nominate one Eldar unit with a model within 6" of the Farseer." ~Edit: For the English language! Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2091065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azulz Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Wow ok thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2091235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Something that's another matter, slightly different but I felt like I should point out here. When looking up force weapons I noticed that the rulebook says that, at base, each psyker is allowed 1 psychic test per player turn. So without Mark of Tzeentch you can still perma-warptime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2091320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Something that's another matter, slightly different but I felt like I should point out here. When looking up force weapons I noticed that the rulebook says that, at base, each psyker is allowed 1 psychic test per player turn. So without Mark of Tzeentch you can still perma-warptime. Yep. I've faced Princes of Nurgle with eternal Warptime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2091326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sezar Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 So can you, on a Tzeentch Sorceror, use Warptime + Force Weapon on your turn, and still use them both on your enemy's turn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176472-sorcerors-with-the-mark-of-tzeentch/#findComment-2118770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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