Rapid fire issues

[Vissah]

Mate with 19 shots against 10 Orcs they would be dead.

If they had some left they have a chance of running and if they charge they cant do much with those few numbers anyway.

[icallitsoda]

One thing we're overlooking in this thread is the fact that there should be more than 10 orks in that squad, points-wise.

[Grey Mage]

One thing we're overlooking in this thread is the fact that there should be more than 10 orks in that squad, points-wise.

 

30 orks- 180pts.

10 Marines- 170pts.

 

Assuming we start at about 30' out. If the marines get 1rst turn we fire a frag missile and hold our ground, likely killing 2 orks.

 

Orks move forward 9". Done.

 

Marines fire 9 bolters, killing 3 more. The Frag missile again kills 2.

 

Orks move forward 10" Done.

 

Marines rapid fire 18 shots, killing 5, frag missile again kills 2.

 

16 Orks charge the marines, who go first anyways- and 12 attacks makes six hits or 3 wounds, most likely 3 dead orks. 13 orks makes 52 attacks, 26hits, and 13 wounds, of wich we have 4 dead marines. Marines lose by 1 and likely hold.

 

It stays pretty even, point for point marines and orks are actually really close, you just have to use them right.

[Gideon999]

Yep. Real life example :

 

I have two armies, marines and orks. I was playing against my wife, and had a full tac squad with flamer and plasma cannon with her having a 20 strong mob (2 rokkits and nob with claw). I moved up to flamer range and tore into them with rapid fire (using the cannons bolt pistol as well since I moved).

 

16 bolt shots

+

1 flamer shot

+

AP value too high for the orks to get saves

+

Reasonable luck with the dice

=

The only ork left standing was the nob.

 

I can only imagine what he was thinking to himself after that round of shooting. Needless to say he ran the heck away after that....

[travh20]

Driving 12" and unloading my tacticals and the rapid firing 16 bolt shots (7 rapid fire bolters, 1 BP from sarge, 1 from HW marine) is one of my favorite tactics, especially agaisnt weak T 3 opponents. If I can I drive close enough to get the flamer in there too.

 

Now if you have sternguard with special ammo would rapid fire seem a bit more attractive to you?

[Frosty the Pyro]

On a small note, it is almost always better to charge orks than to rapid fire them, however vs anything with a higher initive than you rapid fire is almost always the beter solution. It can get complicated when their initive is equal to yours. unless you have special rules (such as furious charge) or wargear (such as power weapons), , your marines are always going to be more leathal rapid fireing and then getting charged, than pistoling then charging. Boltguns are more acurate than punches against any foe WS 4 and up, And they have AP, so cover may also effect this, but if they have cover there is a good chance you would need to take a difficult terain test and miss the charge, which is definatly worse. So what it comes down to is does the increase in the enemies leathality from chargeing worse for you than the reduction in your leathality from rapid fireing.

 

Of course this is in a vacume, in a real fight you also have to consider the target unit decideing to charge a different target, as well as multi assults and other units fireing, does charging put you to close to OTHER enemies, would they have to charge though cover, how long is that pizzaman going to take, we're hungry here, are their better targets for you to shoot at, what is that cat doing to your dreadnaught, luck of the dice, if you shout waaaagh at me one more time I will slap you, that guard player 5 tables over says hes shooting me with his artillery, and I am in range, Oh hey the new girl genius comic is in, wait can you do that? let me look it up, Etc

[yodaid764]

First off, while reading these "situations", my first thought is "Why is there a 10 man tac squad without ANY special or heavy weapons?" Hell, in this edition they are FREE in some cased depending on your weapon choice.

 

Bolters are fine the way they are. They have always been STR4 since 1st edition. The ability to shoot twice at 12" is awesome or once at 24" is nothing to dismiss. Most ork armor wont stand up to a bolt gun and your only real issues is the law of averages. You only have a 50/50 chance to wound orks with said bolt guns (unless you have my dice rolls from last weekend where at best I had a 30% wound ratio).

 

Grey Mage has it right....tactics! What works in some cases wont work in others. You have evalutate the situation, make a decision and then execute. If all does not go well, evaluate what was supposed to happen, what did happen and how you can do better next time.

 

But looking at exactly what you presented in your situations I would say shoot the hell out of them to reduce their numbers and attempt to get them to fail a morale check. With any luck, they will fail, fall back and give you more breathing room to continue to shoot them up or turn your attention to another target.

 

 

On a side note, I would be tempted to smack any marine player I came across who took NO special or heavy weapons in a full 10 man tac squad. I cant imagine a single situation where you would not want the extra firepower or versatility.

[Grey Mage]

Well.... I can think of a reason, but I play space wolves... so sometimes its just a special or a plasmapistol... or just mellee weapons.

[minigun762]

Or just make it easier on yourselves and play Chaos. ^_^

Uber Grit + 2 specials = pretty much makes the choice for you.

If you have Plasma, 90% chance you're rapid firing.

If you have Melta/Flamer, 90% chance you're charing.