Flechette Dischargers in Squadrons

[igotsmeakabob!!]

So I assault a squadron of Tau Piranhas with 10 tactical marines, and all three vehicles in the Squadron are armed with Flechette Dischargers. Because of the way 'wound' allocation works in squadrons, I'm attacking all three even if I can't get into base to base with all three. Am I taking 10 4+ wounds or 30? Even if I WERE in b2b with all three, would I be taking 30?

[veidin]

If Im not mistaken he gets 6" to move into your units on the initial charge as well, so he should be able to get all his units in range. If not then obviously after the assault pile in happens. I may be wrong on this tough.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

The what now?

"When engaged in close combat against a squadron,

enemy models roll to hit and for armour penetration

against the squadron as a whole. Damage results have

the same effect as described above, and are allocated

against the squadron at each Initiative value, in the

same way as a normal combat. As usual for combats

against vehicles, there is no defenders’ reaction,

combat resolution, pile-in moves, consolidation, etc."

 

That wasn't really the question, heh.

[JamesI]

I think you take wounds for the number of vehicles you get into base to base with, not the number int eh squad. But, this is at best my guess.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

So a player could purposely choose to attack a single vehicle, ignoring the other two, and gain the advantage of potentially damaging all three without suffering the Flechettes of all three?

[JamesI]

So a player could purposely choose to attack a single vehicle, ignoring the other two, and gain the advantage of potentially damaging all three without suffering the Flechettes of all three?

When you assault, you have to reach base contact with as many enemy as possible.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

It isn't too hard to make sure that your squad is only going to be in range of one of the vehicles in the squadron; just eyeballing it is enough.

[Legatus]

I think that situation is not properly covered by the rules. technically, the unit makes its attacks against all the vehicles in the squadron, so you could reasonably take that as every model is hit as many times as there are vehices with flechette dischargers in the squadron. On the other hand, while all attacks could technically hit all vehicles in the squadron, I cannot really accept that models that only have one single attack can be considering attacking more than one single vehicle.

 

My proposition would be this: Each model gets hit by as many flechette dischargers as it has attacks, since that is the number of enemy vehicles it could "attack" (i.e. hit). No model can be hit more times than the number of vehicles with flechette dischargers, naturally.

 

Edit: For example, when a Space Marine Captain with power fist charges a squadron of three piranhas with flechette dischargers, his 4 attacks could potentially destroy all three vehicles, so he counts as attacking them all. A Tactical Marine that charged could only harm two vehicles with his two attacks, so he would count as only attacking two vehicles. If teh Tactical Marine decided to use his krak grenades he would only get one attack, so he could only harm one vehicle and would only count as attacking one.

[gil galed]

Flechette dischargers in the Tau Codex state: "Any model attacking the... wound on a 4+". As you are assaulting the unit as a whole and thus attacking every model in it i would say yes, it activates each FD.

 

On that note yes you are taking 30 wounds on a 4+ not 10 on a 4+ because its an individual piece of gear per vehicle. The moral of this is don't assault tau vehicles.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Flechette dischargers in the Tau Codex state: "Any model attacking the... wound on a 4+". As you are assaulting the unit as a whole and thus attacking every model in it i would say yes, it activates each FD.

 

On that note yes you are taking 30 wounds on a 4+ not 10 on a 4+ because its an individual piece of gear per vehicle. The moral of this is don't assault tau vehicles.

That's how I'd interpret it.. but I like to have a number of different opinions weighing in here.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

2nd galed.

[Grey Mage]

Sadly I have to agree with the 30 potential wounds ruling... *sighs*.

[Steelmage99]

Im with the 30 hits.

 

All vehicles in the squadron can be hit and damaged, thus they are attacked. No requirement of being is base contact is mentioned.

[Hackbar]

Im with the 30 hits.

 

All vehicles in the squadron can be hit and damaged, thus they are attacked. No requirement of being is base contact is mentioned.

 

I think it may be even more harsh than just 30 hits. It sounds to me like each individual model has to roll a separate 3 dice to see if it takes wounds, so no wound allocation tricks to try and keep important guys alive.

[Grey Mage]

Im with the 30 hits.

 

All vehicles in the squadron can be hit and damaged, thus they are attacked. No requirement of being is base contact is mentioned.

 

I think it may be even more harsh than just 30 hits. It sounds to me like each individual model has to roll a separate 3 dice to see if it takes wounds, so no wound allocation tricks to try and keep important guys alive.

Huh? It ends up being the same either way.... 10 guys, 30 hits, each guy has to take 3 hits. You could still batchroll them, and would probly have to for the bolter boyz... and that would hurt.

[gil galed]

Im with the 30 hits.

 

All vehicles in the squadron can be hit and damaged, thus they are attacked. No requirement of being is base contact is mentioned.

 

I think it may be even more harsh than just 30 hits. It sounds to me like each individual model has to roll a separate 3 dice to see if it takes wounds, so no wound allocation tricks to try and keep important guys alive.

Huh? It ends up being the same either way.... 10 guys, 30 hits, each guy has to take 3 hits. You could still batchroll them, and would probly have to for the bolter boyz... and that would hurt.

 

especially as it counts towards combat resolution

 

i'm tempted to run a pirenha with flechettes for the sole reason of outflanking it then charging huge mobs againsts things like tyranids and orcs, it would be epic, although of course.... can a vehicle "charge" a unit...

[Frosty the Pyro]

No, vehicles cannot make assults (except for walkers which workas infantry in almost all ways).

 

Also there is no combat resoltion in an assult vs vehicles. See top right of pg 63

 

As far as BtB goes, no there is no BtB requrement, but it does say "any /model/ attacking the vehicle..." That means the model must be engaged. (btb or within 2").

 

That said it does say model, not unit, which to me means each model rols individualy. Also this does make me questoin weather all the flatchet launchers do go off, I am leaning toward yes from the squadren rules.

[gil galed]

Also there is no combat resoltion in an assult vs vehicles. See top right of pg 63

 

o yeh oops, the FD that count towards combat resolution are on a FW crisis suit, :lol:

[Reglor]

If you were assulting both a unit and a vehicle, wouldn't they count for combat resolution?

[Frosty the Pyro]

If you were assulting both a unit and a vehicle, wouldn't they count for combat resolution?

I dont think so, IIRC the rule for multi assults is to ignore non-walker vehicles for combat resolution purposes.

 

Let me check.

 

Yeap right there at the uper right of page 63 again, just below the first part. Ignore vehicles in multi assults.

[Hackbar]

Im with the 30 hits.

 

All vehicles in the squadron can be hit and damaged, thus they are attacked. No requirement of being is base contact is mentioned.

 

I think it may be even more harsh than just 30 hits. It sounds to me like each individual model has to roll a separate 3 dice to see if it takes wounds, so no wound allocation tricks to try and keep important guys alive.

Huh? It ends up being the same either way.... 10 guys, 30 hits, each guy has to take 3 hits. You could still batchroll them, and would probly have to for the bolter boyz... and that would hurt.

 

Again, if you're roling separately for each model (IIRC dangerous terrain tests are like this) then you're stuck with what you get. No wound allocation tricks to try and keep your powerfist sergeant alive: if his 3 dice roll 4s, he has to make 3 saves to live. This can work in your favor, too, as 3 wounds stacked on an expendable bolter marine is something you couldn't do with normal wound allocation, but the inability to reduce risk to important squad members scares me.

[Brother_Dan'l]

This has come up several times before and the general consensus has been that...

1) everybody gets hit a number of times equal to the number of Flechette armed vehicles in the squadron.

2) having it on a 5 ship of Piranha is beyond cruel when facing bugs and orks.

3) it's piece of wargear designed when the Tau could only field single vehicles.

4) it's a stupid hold over from 4th ed. that will probably be dealt with in the new Codex. Probably. :ermm:

[Frosty the Pyro]

2) having it on a 5 ship of Piranha is beyond cruel when facing bugs and orks.

 

I dunno, seems like a big risk as they each come with 2 drones. when the vehicle is damaged drones are treated as passengers, if the vehicle is killed they dissembark and become a new unit, and a new killpoint. That is a 6 kill point squad. Also 5 pirana with fletchets is 350 points, with 11/10/10 armor. Seams like a job for big shootas and dakka fexen (8 str 6 shots, imobalized counts as destroyed, even at ap- that will kill some fish).