Sgt Rafen Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hi guys, I'm currently in the process of adding a PAGK squad to my BA army and I'm not to sure the best way to take them at 155 pts, can anyone give me a sample squad? I would prefer no special weps as they will be doing close range fire support and CC support. Thanks :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 There's only 1 PAGK unit you can build for that many points: a bare-bones minimal 5 man unit. Give the Justicar melta bombs and you're at 155. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2089475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The problem is, PAGK really don't get effective until you have a few more bodies in there. The general consensus is that 8 men is good for a versatile squad, and 6 with 2 psycannons is a nice "mini purgation" fire support squad. Also, more bodies is generally better than fewer. 5 PAGK will most likely not make any significant impact on a battle, and will die as easily as any vanilla combat squad. My suggestion? If you can't allot at least 200pts to a PAGK squad (preferably 225), you're better off taking something else instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2089583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Adding them to a BA list would mean you need them at maximum combat effectiveness to be viable. That is 6 at the very, very, very least, and even then I'd be looking at taking probably 2 special weapons. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking squads smaller than 7 or 8 unless they were in a LR because they die just as quickly as 15 pt marines from ranged fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2090079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Well, I think 5 with 2 psycannons -- 200 pts -- would make an excellent home objective holder in any Imperial army, BA included. Sure, having a 6th model in there is nice, but 5 is enough to do the job required, especially if the objective is somewhat back in your deployment zone in a bit of cover. I used exactly this unit in a team tournament (essentially Adepticon-style) just this last Saturday and it was never killed. The shrouding really is a game winner at 30+ inches. People didn't like it one bit. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2090136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Rafen Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thanks for the replies guys, I'll attempt to try to get some extra points free for a 7 man PAGK squad or the 5 man squad with 2 psycannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2090356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well, I think 5 with 2 psycannons -- 200 pts -- would make an excellent home objective holder in any Imperial army, BA included. Sure, having a 6th model in there is nice, but 5 is enough to do the job required, especially if the objective is somewhat back in your deployment zone in a bit of cover. I used exactly this unit in a team tournament (essentially Adepticon-style) just this last Saturday and it was never killed. The shrouding really is a game winner at 30+ inches. People didn't like it one bit. <_< This is true if you are intending to use them to sit back and hold an objective, but in a Marine army, even one as expensive points wise as BA, a standard Tactical squad would do the job much better for very close to the same points, no? And I am unfamiliar with using GK as allies, do the PAGK units still retain their Troops status? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2090649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Rafen Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well in the BA codex a 5 man tac squad can only take special weps and if I were to make a 10 man squad the cost would go over 155 or even 200 :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2091097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well, I think 5 with 2 psycannons -- 200 pts -- would make an excellent home objective holder in any Imperial army, BA included. Sure, having a 6th model in there is nice, but 5 is enough to do the job required, especially if the objective is somewhat back in your deployment zone in a bit of cover. I used exactly this unit in a team tournament (essentially Adepticon-style) just this last Saturday and it was never killed. The shrouding really is a game winner at 30+ inches. People didn't like it one bit. ;) This is true if you are intending to use them to sit back and hold an objective, but in a Marine army, even one as expensive points wise as BA, a standard Tactical squad would do the job much better for very close to the same points, no? And I am unfamiliar with using GK as allies, do the PAGK units still retain their Troops status? Check out the allying rules in the DH codex, SamaNagol. Allied Inquisition units take up the same force org slots in the army to which they are allied as they would have in their codex. I would also argue that there aren't very many units that would be as good as a PAGK unit with psycannons for holding a home objective. The reason is they make an excellent firebase that puts out decent dakka at a reasonable price. It's a reasonable price because they have the shrouding, which outright denies a significant amount of firepower that would otherwise be coming their way. They also present a significant assault threat, even with just the Justicar, 2 vanilla GKs and 2 psycannon GKs. Few people really wish to tangle with STR 6 melee weapons on a Marine platform, especially when 1 of those "marines" has a STR 6 power weapon with a terminator's amount of attacks. Since you can't shoot the GKs off the table, you'll have to assault them. Not a fun proposition for most enemies, especially considering how far they'll have to come just to even get there. If you're playing your army correctly, pretty much nobody should even be able to get to your GKs anyway. But if they do, hey, they're GKs! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2091127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I find people don't have much problem shooting Grey Knights even with the Shrouding. Especially when it comes to disembarking Troops from transports with lots of boltgun shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2091586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I think the idea is that, in a Blood Angels army, the vast bulk of your own army should meet the enemy head-on somewhere in the middle of the board. Therefore, they shouldn't ever get a chance to get right up next to your PAGK in the backfield. Obviously, something could go wrong, but that's the plan. So if all goes accordingly, the only chance your enemy should get to kill the PAGK is from afar. If they roll through your main forces and make it back to the PAGK, you probably have bigger problems to worry about than that one squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2091660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Rafen Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Rarely my army gets steamrolled, (except by orks) and I have been thinking what troops choice should I leave to guard my home objective, so it appears a 5 man PAGK squad it is! Although I may only find the points for 1 psycannon ;). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2091772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Not really worth it at that point, unfortunately. At around 175pts you could instead get a tactical squad with a heavy weapon, and benefit from the 5 extra wounds. Part of the appeal of the PAGK squad is that it allows you to take 2 heavy weapons in the same squad, making it a nice little firebase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2091860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 i gotta agree with aidoneus on this one. HE says he hates orks and ive faced these guys and there is some T4 4+ 4++ guys and a psycannon wounds 2+ and ignores saves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2092128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Rarely my army gets steamrolled, (except by orks) and I have been thinking what troops choice should I leave to guard my home objective, so it appears a 5 man PAGK squad it is! Although I may only find the points for 1 psycannon <_<. I agree with Aidoneus completely. If you can't afford the 200 pts to take the unit correctly, it probably isn't worth your while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2092230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Rarely my army gets steamrolled, (except by orks) and I have been thinking what troops choice should I leave to guard my home objective, so it appears a 5 man PAGK squad it is! Although I may only find the points for 1 psycannon <_<. I agree with Aidoneus completely. If you can't afford the 200 pts to take the unit correctly, it probably isn't worth your while. I agree as well; 155 points of Grey Knights aren't worth their cost; if I were BA player I'd rather spend those points of beefing up or adding other BA units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2092238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Rafen Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks for the replies everyone and I have decided that while I did find the points for it, I will probably only use the 5 man 2 psycannon squad in friendly games as it invovlves replacing Dante which is a cornerstone of my current list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2092770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't blame you. Dante kicks mighty ass! Good hunting. Come back with some reports of your exploits with the GKs when you do use them, however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2094426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Rafen Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Will do! And I'm sure they wont dissapoint :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176758-effective-pagk-squad-at-155pts/#findComment-2094515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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