Tips against Imperial Guard please

[Jamumools]

Hi there guys. I'd like your assistance please in preparing for my game this week which is my first one against Imperial Guard, and against a very strong player.

 

Effectively what should I be looking out for/what should my kill priorities be? I'm not too up on his army but know that he has at least 1 Leman Russ, has some sentinels, a squad of psychers, at least one infantry platoon and some ratlings.

 

My army, which I'm not looking to change for this battle as it's supposed to be a take-all-comers list, is as follows:

 

Chaplain with Jump Pack

10 Assault Marines, 1 power fist and 2 flamers

10 Tactical Marines, 1 plasma gun, 1 plasma cannon

8 scouts with snipers & 1 missile launcher

1 land speeder squadron with 2 tornadoes (multi metla and flamers) and 1 standard (heavy bolter)

1 land speeder typhoon

5 shooty terminators with 2 chain fists and 1 typhoon missile launcher

3 dakka preds (autocannon and heavy bolters)

 

My initial thoughts were to target the command squads to stop him giving orders - if my predators eat through marines they should have no trouble with 5 guys with toughness 3 even if they have a 4+ cover save... But are the orders that effective? Would I be better off just mowing down his infantry squads? My speeders will come into their own as they can either tank hunt or wipe out infantry squads.

 

Anyway, what is the general consensus for tactics vs Guard?

 

Thanks

[Koremu]

The orders are a pain. Taking a leaf out of Horus' book and going for the command decapitation works well.

 

You should make a point of readig through the IG codex and noting how the rules work regarding deploying Infantry formations as one unit - they are a bit odd at time.

 

When Assaulting IG Infantry, don't be scared to get into massive pile-up combats involving multiple units. The phrase "you lose combat by 27" is a glorious thing to behold.

 

Remember that STR6 Instant Kills T3 multiple wound models, including IG Heavy Weapons teams.

[Warp Angel]

Guard cannot win hand to hand in most situations. As a previous poster said, don't be afraid to get into hand to hand. And don't be afraid of lasguns. They have NOTHING in their army outside of a couple units that can have melta bombs and maybe a special character or two that can hurt an ironclad dreadnaught in hand to hand. Their powerfists have a very limited number of models that can take one, and they're only S6. Amusingly enough, that same ironclad is immune to the vast majority of guard shooting.

 

General rule of thumb 1: 18 lasgun shots/basic hand to hand attacks to average 1 Marine dead. (1/2 hit, 1/3 wound, 1/3 failed save = 1/18). Ironclads ignore even those odds.

 

Guard have crap leadership in most situations. Ld 8 for elite squads and squads with living sergeants. That's still a 1/6 chance of failing leadership rolls. Heavy weapons teams have a 7 leadership. That's a 1/4 chance of running like a little girl. All this is before you hit them with negative leadership modifiers. Without orders, guard cannot recover from being reduced below 50% of their starting numbers. Command squad (usually) and heavy/special weapons teams have very small squad sizes and are easy to break or just plain wipe out.

 

General rule of thumb 2: Force leadership checks as often as practical, this often means targeting the small squads.

 

Guard tanks have rear armor 10. Believe it or not the krak grenades that you have standard are very good for taking out tanks. Remember to use them, especially if you're out of melta weaponry. Leman Russ are slow and will often not move (50% glance or pen for each marine), or almost always move 6" or less (25% glance or hit).

 

General rule of thumb 3: Remember your !!!!KRAK!!!! grenades. Everyone has them.

 

There's the possibility for a ton of low AP template weapons in a guard army. These things crush unprotected infantry, and some of them may not let you get a cover save. Stick to your transports until it's time to lay down some hurt and stay dispersed. Generally these tanks have weak armor and aren't going to be moving much. They make fine targets. Another common tactic is to stick a command squad in a chimera, loaded with special weapons, and use it as an armored bunker filled with hurty shooty bitz. It makes a fine target, especially when combined with GROT 5 below.

 

General rule of thumb 4: Kill the template weapon and mobile bunker tanks, and minimize the damage they do to you.

 

Guard officers provide orders, which magnify the effectiveness of guard infantry in a variety of ways, or they provide leadership auras or other benefits. If it is an independent character attached to a squad or a command squad (which has no independent characters, even though it might have a multi-wound model), it's probably worth killing.

 

General rule of thumb 5: Kill the leaders.

 

And one more thing: Guard love cover. Their 5+ armor save means they die quickly to bolter fire, or any shooting out there short of ork and guard basic weapons, really.

 

General rule of thumb 6: Burn the bastards.

[Koremu]

I think your rule #3 should read KRAK grenades Warp Angel <_<

 

And Leman Russ have AV11 on rear now, don't they?

[Warp Angel]

What do you mean, Koremu, it does say KRAK grenades.*

 

And only the "demolisher" class Leman Russ have AV11 rear. All the more reason to remember KRAK grenades.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* it says it now, anyway.

[Vaktathi]

Hi there guys. I'd like your assistance please in preparing for my game this week which is my first one against Imperial Guard, and against a very strong player.

 

Effectively what should I be looking out for/what should my kill priorities be? I'm not too up on his army but know that he has at least 1 Leman Russ, has some sentinels, a squad of psychers, at least one infantry platoon and some ratlings.

 

My army, which I'm not looking to change for this battle as it's supposed to be a take-all-comers list, is as follows:

 

Chaplain with Jump Pack

10 Assault Marines, 1 power fist and 2 flamers

10 Tactical Marines, 1 plasma gun, 1 plasma cannon

8 scouts with snipers & 1 missile launcher

1 land speeder squadron with 2 tornadoes (multi metla and flamers) and 1 standard (heavy bolter)

1 land speeder typhoon

5 shooty terminators with 2 chain fists and 1 typhoon missile launcher

3 dakka preds (autocannon and heavy bolters)

 

My initial thoughts were to target the command squads to stop him giving orders - if my predators eat through marines they should have no trouble with 5 guys with toughness 3 even if they have a 4+ cover save... But are the orders that effective? Would I be better off just mowing down his infantry squads? My speeders will come into their own as they can either tank hunt or wipe out infantry squads.

 

Anyway, what is the general consensus for tactics vs Guard?

 

Thanks

 

This all very much depends on what type of IG army you are playing against. However, above all, Do not try and outshoot the Imperial Guard. I can't tell you how often I see SM players make this mistake and end up with half a company's worth of dead marines by turn 3. With regards to what you listed as your opponent having, it looks like a fairly mix and match thrown together lot. Get in fast, get stuck in with everything you can, and let the odds work in your favor. Watch for the psyker squad as it can be annoying when paired with pinning weapons or forcing morale checks. Leman Russ tanks as always are a priority.

 

 

If you are playing against an infantry heavy IG army, assault as many units as possible, including tanks (krak grenades) with every charge move you make. killing officers is always a good thing but not quite as critical as most people make it out to be. flamers and the like will be your friend. This type of army will be the easiest for you to deal with.

 

Against a properly built mech IG army, odds are not going to be in your favor if the opposing general is playing it well, as your anti-infantry weapons will be wasted as you'll have nothing to shoot at but AV12 and AV14 hulls, and you'll need to drag the infantry out of the transports while they get to shoot at you from within. The officers are also much less critical here as they can't issue orders to units in transports (but given how much harder everything is to kill...). My mech IG list has yet to find an SM list it was really scared of (not to say it's invincible, but god can it burn down terminators, marines and rhino's, popping 3 Rhino's turn 1 and hitting each unit that comes out with a battlecannon and a flurry of multilaser and heavy bolter shots is not unheard of even with smoke cover). Always remember your Krak grenades.

 

remember that everything the IG player has is likely cheap and expendable (I don't think twice about sacrificing an infantry squad and a couple chimeras if I need to), so hit lots of stuff at once.

[Hellios]

You seem to be lacking in the anti-AV 14 for an all comers list XD with the exception of two multi-meltas in a speeder squadron which unless you can keep them from being exposed to fire or present a bigger danger aint that hard to take down.

 

You need to get into combat by the looks of it quickly... and engage multiple units if you can, also get into combat or destroy that Russ as quickly as possible they can make a mess of everything in your army - the predators and terminators (which they can still hurt), so yer remember cover is your friend and not just the guards.

 

It might be worth deepstriking the terminators rather than walking across (even if they have to take a round of fire) unless you can get them across taking less fire anyway.

 

Dakka preds can deal with the sentinels (i think?) if they prove to be a hazard its probabbly best you don't get in combat with those unless your going to fist them.

[glayvin34]

Cover, cover, and more cover. Those battle cannons can decimate half a squad in one shot, and there's that Heavy 20 gun, and plasma from everywhere, so your armor saves can be nonexistent or fall down due to the number of rolls you'll be taking. It might be interesting to note, though, that I once lost 7 of 10 assault marines, but the remaining 3 (sarge and 2 flamers) survived the whole rest of the game reaping a ton of kills and staying locked in combat to prevent being shot at. If they had been a full 10 man squad, they would not have been locked in combat and would've taken much las to the face.

 

I agree with Hellios on your all-comers list, you might want to give your sarges some meltabombs to be sure you can take out heavier armor.

 

In my experience, Dakka preds aren't great against sentinels, they've got 12 front armor so the HB is out and the AC needs a 6 to glance. Even on their 10 side armor you need a 5 to glance with the HB and a 4 with the AC. Taking Lascannons v. IG isn't a great idea, though, due to expense and the fact they can only cause 1 wound a round. You can deal with sentinels with krak missiles, though, and it looks like you've got plenty of those.

[Clone]

I played a Guard army the other week. I had a Chaplain and the exact same Assault Squad set up as you and they ripped through 4 Guard Squads with ease. First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire can be a pain, it gives lasguns an extra shot but considering my 11 man squad took about 30 shots and only 1 marine died, I don't think you should worry about it too much especially as that very squad was subsequently wiped out in the next turn by my Assault Marines.

 

Get those Speeders and Terminators in close as quick as you can. You could Deep Strike your Termies in close and position them so they are using something large to hide them from most of your enemies Line of Sight, i.e. a Tank or mass of infantry, less hits on your expensive Termie squad the better and next turn they could be in close combat with said Tank and watch the Chainfists and Power Fists get to work. I'd do the same with your Speeders, to support your Termies and give the enemy more units to worry about. Get rear armour on those Leman Russ's with the multi melta and watch the tank fry. Admittedly, I found sniper scouts aren't much use against Guard, wounding on a 4+ with BS3 isn't good against T3 at all. Also, if you can find the points I'd add another Multi Melta to the other Speeder in your first Speeder Squadron, it'll help against that Leman Russ. Those Predators will rip through Guard squads, make sure you target the juiciest squad you can see, i.e. Command Squads, Heavy Weapons Teams. If you have Rhino, make it a Dedicated Transport for your Tac Squad, if not, I'd say replace the Plasma Cannon with a Missile Launcher, its free and its better at killing armour whereas you don't really need S7 AP2 small template against Guard, they'll still die easily to Frag Missiles, also a flamer would be nice vs T3 or against Ratlings which are only T2 and the flamer ignores cover saves and is AP5 so they don't even get an armour save, basically hit a Ratling Squad with a Flamer and they are dead. That Typhoon will be awesome at infantry killing, its Frag Missiles are S4 so count as defensive weapons, good for keeping mobile and killing troops.

 

Also, Flamers, Boltguns and Boltpistols are awesome against Guard. I cannot overstate that fact.

[Vaktathi]

I played a Guard army the other week. I had a Chaplain and the exact same Assault Squad set up as you and they ripped through 4 Guard Squads with ease.

You don't need an assault squad with a chaplain to do that, it's monstrously overkill. A charging 10man tac squad can take on 4 Infantry squads simultaneously and win by 4 on average, forcing all 4 units to test Ld at -4.

[Clone]

I played a Guard army the other week. I had a Chaplain and the exact same Assault Squad set up as you and they ripped through 4 Guard Squads with ease.

You don't need an assault squad with a chaplain to do that, it's monstrously overkill. A charging 10man tac squad can take on 4 Infantry squads simultaneously and win by 4 on average, forcing all 4 units to test Ld at -4.

True, it may be overkill but I prefer the mobility of Jump Packs, but nothing strikes fear into to the heart's of my enemies like a Chaplain charging with a full squad of Assault Marines.

[Vaktathi]

True, it may be overkill but I prefer the mobility of Jump Packs, but nothing strikes fear into to the heart's of my enemies like a Chaplain charging with a full squad of Assault Marines.

If I'm playing my CSM's or Eldar, I'll be a bit intimidated. They can be a scary unit against such armies, however if I'm playing my IG I've got a big lovely target for my LRBT's and Vendettas that's paying a boatload of points for extras that aren't really needed.

 

SM's protected in Rhino's are really one of the most solid units to use against IG armies.

[travh20]

I agree with Vaktahi about the mech IG lists. They can be brutal. At 1000 points I run 3 vet squds with a heavy flamer, a flamer and a melta gun, all in chimeras with multi lasers and heavy flamers. Also 2 armored sentinals witl plasma cannons, a bane wolf with a hull HF and a LR battle tank with 3 HB's. That is a lot of firepower for 1000 points. For 500 more points he can add 2 or 3 more AV 14 tanks or a giant gunline infatry platoon to back up the mobile list and guard his objective. It almost seems impossible to defeat such a list. I suggest taking metla guns and rhinos and rushing up as fast as possible.

 

Oh, and watch out for the bane wolf. Template that wounds on a 2+ and is AP 3! it is also fast so can move 12" and fire the chem cannon. Take it out first priority or you will have a squad of dead marines somehwhere.

[Clone]

True, it may be overkill but I prefer the mobility of Jump Packs, but nothing strikes fear into to the heart's of my enemies like a Chaplain charging with a full squad of Assault Marines.

If I'm playing my CSM's or Eldar, I'll be a bit intimidated. They can be a scary unit against such armies, however if I'm playing my IG I've got a big lovely target for my LRBT's and Vendettas that's paying a boatload of points for extras that aren't really needed.

 

SM's protected in Rhino's are really one of the most solid units to use against IG armies.

Fortunately for me I had two Rhino's packed with 10 man Tac Squads, melta guns and multi meltas. My opponent chose to worry about them before my Assault Squad. In fact one Tac Squad took down his Vendetta on the turn it entered play.