Chaoszilla vs Raider Rush

[minigun762]

I came across this in another forum and it left me scratching my head.

 

How would a Chaoszilla army fight a Land Raider Rush force?

 

Figure at 2k points you're looking at 2 DPs/3 Dreads/3 Defilers vs 3-4 Land Raiders probably full of TH/SS Terminators whenever possible. Without Obliterators and Termicide, those Raiders WILL get through and hit your lines, so you have to deal with them after they get the charge.

 

The best I could come up with was sacrificing a Walker to the initial charge, then using dakka/counter charge to knock out the Terminators and Land Raider, but thats a pretty iffy plan really.

[Draeden]

Make it more zillary....?

 

3 Havoc Squads. All with Champions mixed in.

 

3 Summon Greater Daemons.

 

Havocs with Lascannons/Multimeltas pop the raiders, Greater Daemon marches onwards to counter charge the contents.

 

Or at least that's just one idea.

[Zeller]

Lascannons on the defilers and dreads.

 

WoC on the DP.

 

3 3-man bike squads with PF and 2 Meltas. Drive by, pop a raider, run away to the next one so those silly terminators have to sit there and look dumb or move up under your 3 defilers. I'd imagine this also working best if your dreadnoughts have TL-HB and ML. Then again, looking at this I'd also imagine the opponent would disembark his termies from the hatch nearest your bikes when hit tank explodes. Keep the bikes cheap them. Perhaps no AC and no PF.

[the jeske]

you know how many turns it take for a bs3 lascanon , that is not linked to have a good chance, of destroying a single LR [and a LR rush army runs 2]?

you cant take havocks because you already filled the hvy support slots with 3 defilers.

 

the small melta bike squads are not an options , because there is just no points to buy them . if someone makes a zylla list and can buy 3 bikes with fist champ etc its better to pay less points and buy termicid .

 

dreadnought can not be a good anti tank , because you cant control them . you dont know if on the turn you need them to shot , you roll a 1 or 6 and do nothing [at best]. a zylla list runs hth dreads with 2ccw . defilers have enough problems with anti tank anyway they dont need shots from melta at close range from their own army.

 

 

Now to what can be done . Make them not want to disembark . LR rush builds will run 2 hth units supported by HQs etc , but there is something in 2 DPs and 3 defilers [and any dreads that are not crazy] that makes even assault termiantors rething charging. move in a big wave , ork style runing with the defilers [unless you get a free shot at a troop choice not in cover] with the DPs behind . If your opponent cant get out of his LR out of fear that his hth units will die , then his list doesnt work and when that happens you have a chance to win. Another options is ignoring the LR units[ but still moving as one wave] and go after the rhino squads and support units.

[chillin]

3 Havoc Squads. All with Champions mixed in.

 

3 Summon Greater Daemons.

 

Havocs with Lascannons/Multimeltas pop the raiders, Greater Daemon marches onwards to counter charge the contents.

 

First off that's 3 HS choices.

Where are your pts for DP's, dreads, and defilers coming from ? And I'll guess you'll have 2X5 naked csm's as troops ?

[Uprising]

3 Havoc Squads. All with Champions mixed in.

 

3 Summon Greater Daemons.

 

Havocs with Lascannons/Multimeltas pop the raiders, Greater Daemon marches onwards to counter charge the contents.

 

First off that's 3 HS choices.

Where are your pts for DP's, dreads, and defilers coming from ? And I'll guess you'll have 2X5 naked csm's as troops ?

 

Also you can only 1 GD.

[Corpse.]

Return with a superior land raider rush.

 

3 Cheap termi units, maybe as termicide with 3 land raiders as transports.

 

Use 3 more land raiders as heavy support.

 

Fill troops and a cheap HQ, not required to give a 90 pt lord anything because of the make of the army.

 

Have 6 land raiders in 2k like I see two guys always push to have in 2k.

 

280 for 9 termies, 1320 for 6 raiders, and then fill 90 with a cheap lord, then add in 20 marines hanging out in/behind the raiders. When loyalists break away from the balance theme and shoot for a really one sided tactic or theme then chaos can really show its colors by either rivaling it, or out-performing it.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Return with a superior land raider rush.

 

3 Cheap termi units, maybe as termicide with 3 land raiders as transports.

 

Use 3 more land raiders as heavy support.

 

Fill troops and a cheap HQ, not required to give a 90 pt lord anything because of the make of the army.

 

Have 6 land raiders in 2k like I see two guys always push to have in 2k.

 

280 for 9 termies, 1320 for 6 raiders, and then fill 90 with a cheap lord, then add in 20 marines hanging out in/behind the raiders. When loyalists break away from the balance theme and shoot for a really one sided tactic or theme then chaos can really show its colors by either rivaling it, or out-performing it.

 

Except that the loyalists have multi meltas on their raiders. And they have hammer terminators which will smash our raiders.

[minigun762]

I appreciate the help but most people seem to focus on adding new units to the army.

I was going more for, how would I best fight this army with the army I described (in this case a Chaoszilla one).

 

Jeske has tossed out a good game plan I think, try to overwhelm them with targets in HtH combat and force them onto the defensive.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I appreciate the help but most people seem to focus on adding new units to the army.

I was going more for, how would I best fight this army with the army I described (in this case a Chaoszilla one).

 

Jeske has tossed out a good game plan I think, try to overwhelm them with targets in HtH combat and force them onto the defensive.

 

One of the main advantage of a LR rush army is that they have a lot of control over when, and where they put their units. The easiest way to take this away from them is to have it so that they don't want to be assaulting you. Keep your forces together so that they can all support each other. Assault terminators will eat your walkers, but you can have the advantage of having a lot of different units involved in the combat and force them to spread attacks out.

 

I know this is a bit abstract, but i hope it gives some ideas.

[Corpse.]

Except that the loyalists have multi meltas on their raiders. And they have hammer terminators which will smash our raiders.

Well, every turn they move their raiders to get closer, just means more turns our raiders get to fire at them with little resistance. Range accounts for something when mobility means reducing firepower.

 

 

Minigun, I think its more a state of scenario, and pitting army type A versus army type B. While you cant exactly versus them and say for certain which one is the absolout victor, they are both decently refined armylists that stand a near equal chance. Remember, you have tols of monstrous critters and str10 DCCW's to smash raiders, so I believe the raiders would want to remain still and their terminators (kill 3 terminators, make back the cost of a dreadnought) its a somewhat unfair advantage where ranged firepower is key for loyalists.

[Raven Angel]

What kind of Rush, 2, 3 , or 4? See at 250pts as a DT or HS choice their is a little flex and they don't have to carry termies any more. the HS ones will carry any squade you want to protect from the start now. Also what if he plans to blow by you and take an objective and use the LR as a bunker? In the past as a DA player you could pretty much be sure my LRs had termies in them but under the current rules you are just as likly to find a tac squad ready for a special job. The new codex has given SM alot more flex with their LRs then we have ever had before. Exactly how you will counter this will depend on how you opponet intende to do with them. I love the moble bunker concept for protecting a scoring unit or 2 which I now have the points for if I leave 1 of the termi squads at home.

[The_Crippster]

have your dreadnought close combat weapons hit the land raiders

 

 

XD

[SamaNagol]

Thunder Hammers smash Land Raiders? Ok :lol: