Daemon Prince with only wings?

[Night Lord Dred]

I was wondering what people thought of a cheap 130 point Daemon Prince.

 

Previously I was running the Nurgle, Wings and Warptime Prince, but decided to drop the Nurgle to play a fluffy Night Lords list. Then yesterday I thought of the idea of dropping Warptime as well for a few reasons:

 

-Warptime does not work on vehicle damage rolls

-I find myself not using it because I dont want to overkill a squad and get shot by bolters the next turn

-The Prince most of the time gets shot down before he even reaches combat (it's quite obvious people are scared of it). Having it at 130 points is more justifiable.

-Hoods and Eldar preventing it

-Obviously I can buy something else with the points.

 

I was wondering what others thought about this idea of a near naked Prince.

 

Thanks.

[chillin]

I think it's do'able. esp if you are kinda using him to pull fire off rour rinos anyway..

The eldar and hoods shutting down psy pwrs has crossed my mind too. You could give him jsut doombolt, he could maybe take a few MEQ's out at 18" b4 he dies. And if it gets shut down, it's onlky 10 pts lost.

Have you tried winged lord ? I haven't used a DP in quite a while, for some of the very reasond you discribed.

[the jeske]

the question is . when you take a slow moving hth unit that does stuff only in hth [unlike a dread or wright lord] , how is it going to draw fire away from rhinos when rhinos are moving faster [bigger treat to the enemy army] ? it would be like having a GD on the table from the start. Not viable in normal games. maybe in something like planet strike , when you know your the defender and dont really move that much .

[Night Lord Dred]

In my non-tourny 2k chaos list, I run a Lord with a jump pack and dual lightning claws and he runs with my raptors. He actually costs 140 points, more than this prince would funny enough. I use him purely for fun though and to fit the fluff, as I feel he doesnt pull his weight when I could buy another cheap scoring squad of marines as support. The rest of my list though I generally keep the same.

 

Doombolt is actually not a bad idea. I never even considered it.

 

 

 

Jeske - the Prince is winged. Why would it not be moving 12"?

[the jeske]

I was wondering what others thought about this idea of a near naked Prince.

this. got me a bit distracted.

 

 

anyway . if you plan to run wings and no psychic power then khorn is the way to go . at least you get an extra attack. the thing with DPs or chaos HQs in general is , that if your not taking a nurgle one or a lash one , then it doesnt really matter what you take . Its the sad truth.

Any way what are you buying for those points of 2x warp time ? one extra termicid termi extra armor . the codex has so few options , that there isnt much stuff to trim and and when you actually want to start buying stuff its 105 or 150 pts [termicid , two oblits , 10 man naked camper unit, NM blast master 5 man camper etc].

[Night Lord Dred]

Fleshing out troops. Because of an extra 5 points, Ill have 30 left over now. That's 2 marines (2 more wounds), or a raptor + doombolt, a melta, etc.

 

My list is focused on having many cheap but dangerous units. 8 mech, 50 MEQs, meltas everywhere kind of a thing. Im really trying to squeeze every point out of the list, and thus far most units have been useful. However, I just find myself not using warptime, so I figured Id ask and see opinions.

 

EDIT: Also to add, the reason for no marks is purely for fluff. Im trying to play a competitive Night Lords list.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

A prince with just wings works just fine. They are still very damaging and have pretty much the same performance vs vehicles. But i'd still stick with warptime. There is nothing else you can buy with the same number of points that is as useful.

 

-Warptime does not work on vehicle damage rolls

-I find myself not using it because I dont want to overkill a squad and get shot by bolters the next turn

-The Prince most of the time gets shot down before he even reaches combat (it's quite obvious people are scared of it). Having it at 130 points is more justifiable.

-Hoods and Eldar preventing it

-Obviously I can buy something else with the points.

 

- Sure, but it works on the hit rolls still which can allow the prince to destroy tanks that have moved which is something fists arn't going to be able to do.

- Even with it the max you are going to kill is 5 guys on the charge, and even that probably won't happen. If you are overkilling squads then your real problem is sending him after units that are too small, or too easily broken.

- This used to happen to me a lot. Now it never does. If your prince is getting shot down it means you are not protecting him right, and that your list is lacking sufficient threats for there to be real target saturation. In my lists my opponent is going to need to deal with the two defilers and the templates of doom my noise marines squads are packing before they can spare firepower for the prince.

- This happens, but you still have over a 50% chance of getting it off. And its going to be a fairly small number of people who have these things overall.

 

 

The real argument against taking warptime, which you actually havn't mentioned, is that you are making as much as 8-12 psychic tests for it per game. Thats an almost definite perils wound at some point. But even with this, i still say its worth it.

[IronWinds]

You could always counts as why it has a mark. My bionic DP has a bunch of sensors and such that count as his MoS, +1I.

 

 

I always run warptime on my prince as well. So here are my arguments for it.

 

-Warptime does not work on vehicle damage rolls

-I find myself not using it because I dont want to overkill a squad and get shot by bolters the next turn

-The Prince most of the time gets shot down before he even reaches combat (it's quite obvious people are scared of it). Having it at 130 points is more justifiable.

-Hoods and Eldar preventing it

-Obviously I can buy something else with the points.

 

-Makes them easier to hit, and most compentant players move their tanks at least a couple inches just for that bonus.

-You are might want to look at how you are running things. Mine 'never', never like 10/10 times, never gets killed before getting into hth. I don't know what the rest of your list is, but with a mech army you have a lot of things that can protect him.

-I don't fight a lot of eldar or people with psychic hoods so it is not a huge issue for me, but even if it was, it doesn't always stop it.

-There are other things you can buy, but I can't think of anything for 25pts that has the rewards that warptime can offer.

[Night Lord Dred]

Thanks for the replies

 

Believe me, I definitely have enough running up the board with him. People go out of their way to shoot him, which is fine by me because everyone else gets up the board with minimal problems.

 

There is no way to protect him 100% of the time because he is taller than a rhino. A 4+ cover save does nothing to prevent bolter fire unfortunately. Remember he's T5 because I can't take nurgle.

 

For vehicles moving, yes, it can help, but I feel I have enough shooting on the board to deal with the 6+'s.

 

 

 

I did do the counts as thing, but it still doesn't feel right to me. I've changed my list heavily piece by piece making it a little more fluffy, and now Ive gotten to it be a 100% Night Lords list. Theres no doubt warptime is great if you finally get into the right situation, but Im starting to notice without that T6, it's biting the dust a lot quicker.

 

I am reconsidering Warptime, but I just think back to him getting blasted by everything and not even making it into combat.

[Zhukov]

Any way what are you buying for those points of 2x warp time ? one extra termicid termi extra armor . the codex has so few options , that there isnt much stuff to trim and and when you actually want to start buying stuff its 105 or 150 pts [termicid , two oblits , 10 man naked camper unit, NM blast master 5 man camper etc].

This here. I always have this when I make a 'super competative' list for chaos, always got just enough points left for some upgrades on princes. In general I think one benefits more from prince upgrades compared to 1 or 2 extra bodies.

 

But if you are not going for a standard chaos list setup, than maybe you will have more points left for taking something like extra termicide/oblits whatever. I do think Princes with only wings are still VERY viable.

[Cale]

As the Jeske said, if you're going to take a prince with just wings, take the Mark of Khorne on him, too. An extra swing for a minimal cost, it's a very good upgrade.

[minigun762]

As the Jeske said, if you're going to take a prince with just wings, take the Mark of Khorne on him, too. An extra swing for a minimal cost, it's a very good upgrade.

 

I agree 100% but the OP doesn't want to use any marks or count as.

 

For my money, I'd do Doombolt. Same cost as MoK and all you need to do is knock out 1 Marine and you've made your points back and with BS5 that should be easy.

[Corpse.]

You can do what I do with counts as.... Put the mark on the side of the base since anything glued to a model is part of the model. Even if its the "base of the model" its still a part of it.

[Dezartfox]

I take a prince with MoK and Wings, cheap, good fire magnet (I have three rhinos full of zerkers) and can do a lot of damage if he gets there!

[CavPathfinder]

Daemon Prince with just wings, I think that's a good way to go.

recently I've been playing small skirmishes 500-1200pts. And have been using a Daemon Prince with just wings. I use him specifically to hunt armor (been playing a bunch of Imperial Guard, with lots of tanks, lately). He's worked fabulously. If he makes it to the target, yatzee. If he sucks up incomming for a few turns, my other units aren't taking that fire, 130pts to make sure my main force gets into Close Combat, win-win in my book. we're bumping up to 1500pts, so now I'll be taking two Daemon Princes with wings.

[Possessed Marine]

I run my DP with wings. he comes in handy if someone drop pods a dread. one game my buddy dropped a dread and took out my raider, then my DP ripped the dread apart

[Sanctjud]

Without wings is functional, but he ends up stuck in one role: counter-charge.

 

With wings, he's so much more, for not alot of points...why shoot youself in the foot?

 

My 7 Cents.