Azulz Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 grotesques ability the "terrifying opponent" one what happens to fearless models...they fall back no matter what still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Fearless overrides Morale Checks. There is no such with the Grotesques. So yes, they run for the hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 What is the wording for the Dark Eldar rule? RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I think fearless wins. Terrifying oponent: Groutesques are horrible oponents to fight against. Any oponent beaten by them in close combat automaticly falls back without a leadership test being taken. Fearless: Fearless troops automaticly pass all moral and pinning checks they are required to make and will never fall back. Its close but I give it to fearless. Interestingly enouph though, synapse loses (as the test has to be taken for synaps to pass it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The Grotesque rule states that any opponent that loses against them automatically fall back, no tests or anything. Fearless overrides Morale Checks. Once again, no test is made, thus Fearless does not protect. Strangely, there is nothing in the DA FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 "will never fall back" has nothing to do with checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 ^^^ Agree. "Will never fall back" eliminates any prospect of falling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTang Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 While it's not asked, it'll work against units with just Combat Tactics and Caligar's God of War, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 No debate there at all GTang. Fearless vs. Grotesque ...well....I believe that you have two special rules without one having a clear over-rule of the other...To me this is a clear case of Diceing off for which rule wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanSpence Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 No debate there at all GTang.Fearless vs. Grotesque ...well....I believe that you have two special rules without one having a clear over-rule of the other...To me this is a clear case of Diceing off for which rule wins. Shouldn't codex (horribly out of date though it is) override BRB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I don't see the Issue it says will never fall back. Which has nothing to do with Automatically passes tests to see if the unit falls back but just a fullstop never falls back. ANother question... A dreadnought is beaten by Groyesques... is the dreadnought going to run away? as it normally never falls back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Come to think of it, I do believe that the actual rule in C:DE mentions Fearless models. Might be wrong though, haven't touched my DE since, oh, the 13th Black Crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The DE Codex does not mention fearless models, but there were a few other such rules during 3rd Edition where the rules did say that fearless models are not affected. For example, units losing combat against a greater demon would also have to fall back without taking a test, but it also said that models that never fall back or those that would otherwise automatically pass all tests would be exempt (3rd ed C:CSM, p. 9). I think there might have been FaQ entries around that time too. As the rules currently stand, by RAW the fearless unit swould have to fall back. Fearless = never falls back, Grotesque = must fall back. Codex trumps rulebook. But since I do remember how other such rules used to play out I would still exempt fearless units from that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Codes Dark Eldar, 2nd Ed. pg 8, “Terrifying Opponent: Grotesques are horrible opponents to fight against. Any opponent beaten by them in close combat automatically falls back without a Leadership test being taken.” As stated above, the Fearless USR on pg 75 of the BRB states, “Fearless troops automatically pass all Morale and Pinning tests they are required to take, and will never fall back.” In both cases, the standard rules for making Leadership/Morale checks are overridden in favor of the exception. In both cases the check is replaced by an automatic result, either pass or fail. So then we are left with the specifics mentioned in the respective exception. The statement in Fearless, “will never fall back” is pretty absolute. There’s nothing in the Grotesque rule at the same level, e.g. “Affected units will always fall back even if they have a special rule that allows them to automatically pass leadership checks.” By my read, Fearless trumps Terrifying Opponent despite the convention that Codex trumps BRB. -OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thantoes Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 While I agree with the idea that Fearless would trump grotesques could we also not look at it like this. Fearless kicks in when a leadership check is required. The grotesque rule seems to state that when it comes into play the leadership check is not allowed to be taken i.e. you dont even get to the stage of even thinking of a leadership test. If the leadership check is never allowed would the fearless even come into play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Again fearless has three main pionts before geting into gaining/losing fearless 1. Automaticly passes moral checks 2. automaticly passes pinning checks 3. Never falls back its point three that likely beats the groutesque rule. Also please note that fearlessness does not help against all leadership tests, only the affore mentioned pinning and moral checks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I'm in complete agreement with frosty and OMG - the "never falls back" language beats the Terrifying rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Never falls back. I think that is pretty straight forward. Terrifying Opponent: Grotesques are horrible opponents to fight against. Any opponent beaten by them in close combat automatically falls back without a Leadership test being taken The bolded part 'implies' that the unit would otherwise have to take a Ld test. And automatically is not nearly as strong a word as 'Never.' If it said 'will Always fall back without a leadership test' then we would have an illogical falsehood. Statement 1: Unit A must automatically fall back. Statement 2: Unit A 'Never' falls back. Unit A stays put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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