Mantinel Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hello! I've been quite successful handling every armies more-less but Demons give me big troubles. I've tried few lists and thought about pretty much every possibility but can't find any good list to take them down at 2000 points. My opponent plays the following: - two squads of Bloodcrushers, all different equipment for better wound allocation - two Nurgle Demon Princes with wings, def. grenades, a lot of gear - they cost about 215 points - the Bird I cannot remember name of, its the Theenez Lord of change I think - one squad of demonetess - two squads of those small demon troops - shooty - one squad of those ugly rending horses My Bloodclaws are really ineffective against the demon princes (def grenades), horses (rending, lots of attacks, high ini) or bloodcrushers (power attacks, lots of em'). Grey Hunters are bad against everything except the small troops. Dreadnoughts are crappy against princes or Bird quite good vs. crushers or horses, but still not enough attacks to do more than stall them. Terminators are too expensive and they get shattered by the amounts of power attacks. To summarise - Wolves are great in close combat, but unfortunately nearly every our boon gets countered by Demons, that are I must admit, better in it. Could you help me make a list that would be effective and suggest some tactics and/or your game experience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177043-killing-the-demons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Folks will need to know what you are running and missions you are playing. For example he seems light in the troops dept. Are you playing objectives? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177043-killing-the-demons/#findComment-2093219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roguemarine Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 the problem with playing against daemons is that if you are playing an all comers list you will be hard pressed to beat them. What i have found to combat this is ALWAYS PLAY WITH A LAND RAIDER............daemons have a hard time dealing with these, and if you play with a LRC or LRR you can cram a big unit of blood claws into it with a character, let one of your grey hunter units take a charge then counter with that unit...for the fateweaver, you just have to either ignore him and pray or shoot the crap out of him and pray. The other course of action is to use the LR unit to go around his nasty units and hit his troops if it is an objective mission. The fate weavers aura is only 6" from him so he can't cover everything. if you take a venerable dread, try to get him on one of the DP's...eventhough they will get a few glances or pens on you, hard to kill should keep you alive long enough tying him up. As for the blood crushers...i don't really have an answer for them. besides playing with SS termies you don't have many options. if you play with rhinos in your army use them as moving walls. never put them in charge range of the blood crushers until there is no other choice. Also, the only unit that should be allowed to go off on their own would be the land raider unit, everything else needs to be close together to support each other. The reason being he can deepstrike in a clump to split your army up. Hope some of these ideas work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177043-killing-the-demons/#findComment-2093255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thought i said it before if one comes with defensive grenades than let him charge you. With Stormcaller you'll get first and you get youre bonus attacks. Also don't forget that against dreads the prince with grenades won't get a Strength bonus, often overlooked but it does state it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177043-killing-the-demons/#findComment-2093545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Nostromo Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 My favourite trick for daemons is to let them charge you...BUT... use a big unit of Blood Claws with a Rune Priest casting storm caller or otherwise in cover to take the initial charge. Daemons don't have offensive grenades and so you will attack first in most cases. A successful counter-attack will mean little will survive. If they refuse to charge, they hate higher strength multishot weapons like assault cannons and heavy bolters as they will inevitably fail some invunerable saves. Templates are also good (they are pretty good against everthing aren't they?) so whirlwinds and vindicators can work and are reasonably expendable as well. Go for the daemon princes first as they are a real pain. As with all armies with lots of power weapons (eldar, dark eldar, daemons), try to isolate bits of their force and annihilate them as even just a fraction of a unit can be a real pain if they deliver a successful charge. Roguemarine also makes a good point... besides daemon princes, daemons don't deal well with Land Raiders. Nearly all LR weaponry is real effective at stripping wounds off DPs too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177043-killing-the-demons/#findComment-2093555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn the Fell-Handed Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hello! I've been quite successful handling every armies more-less but Demons give me big troubles. I've tried few lists and thought about pretty much every possibility but can't find any good list to take them down at 2000 points. My opponent plays the following: - two squads of Bloodcrushers, all different equipment for better wound allocation - two Nurgle Demon Princes with wings, def. grenades, a lot of gear - they cost about 215 points - the Bird I cannot remember name of, its the Theenez Lord of change I think - one squad of demonetess - two squads of those small demon troops - shooty - one squad of those ugly rending horses My Bloodclaws are really ineffective against the demon princes (def grenades), horses (rending, lots of attacks, high ini) or bloodcrushers (power attacks, lots of em'). Grey Hunters are bad against everything except the small troops. Dreadnoughts are crappy against princes or Bird quite good vs. crushers or horses, but still not enough attacks to do more than stall them. Terminators are too expensive and they get shattered by the amounts of power attacks. To summarise - Wolves are great in close combat, but unfortunately nearly every our boon gets countered by Demons, that are I must admit, better in it. Could you help me make a list that would be effective and suggest some tactics and/or your game experience. Ok. You seem to be using the wrong tools for the job in somne ways. For example, you do not run dreads vs Grreater daemons or even princes, unless its like 2v1 in your favour, just because 2D6 armour pen, and often warptime will screw you over. Against princes/ GD's, use WG termies with TH/SS, as the 3++ will make a mockery of them often, and th eTH will hit hard enough. Blood Claws are good vs things like Daemonettes, and I shall explain why. Daemonsettes str Toughness 3 for both. They will hit like a ton of bricks. Mkae sure you charge bloodletters if they are in a position to charge you to stop them getting furious charge off. Also, vs flesh hounds, Claws do a good job in my experience, I play a 9 man pack with WGL, and I killed about 20 with karanak. Remember, Daemon saves are fairly abysmal; the only edge being they almost always get it (bar specialist weapons), so things like Bolters/heavy bolters/flamers are good, just by causing a load of wounds. If you need to stop a daemon squad advancing, then use dreads. The daemon list lacks anti armour in most squads up close. I won a game just because his last 2 squads were locked up fighting a dread. Dreads also a good way of dealing with Skulltaker, as the rending is reduced and no instakillingness. Vindicators are also good, but like someone aid, a LRC will make a mockery of this army. Even a redeemer will be good (possibly even more so with the win flamers) Ultimately, try stuff out, make new lists and develop strategies :nuke: Hope this helps Bjorn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177043-killing-the-demons/#findComment-2093651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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