Brother Captain or Grand Master?

[ASDF_]

Hey guys, in my 1500 point list, I was deciding whether I should have a Brother Captain or a Grand Master as an HQ choice.

 

I would have either one of these two:

 

1. Brother Captain with Psycannon with An elite Brother Capatin with Psycannon and 3x GKT's with 1 Psycannon

 

2. Grand Master with Psycannon with 3 GKT with 1 Psycannon

 

Which would be better and why?

 

Thanks.

[SamaNagol]

That's an enormous points sink at 1500pts and I wouldn't advise either, personally.

[Aidoneus]

I agree with SamaNogol. That's approaching 1/3 the points of your entire army for, honestly, not all that impressive a unit. You'd be much better off simply devoting fewer points to HQ.

 

If you're dead-set on the shooty GKT squad, my recommendation is to simply buy a BC with psycannon and give him a 3-man retinue with another psycannon. It's 254pts, and reasonably effective. Another option would be to eschew psycannons altogether and put a GM with Storm Shield and 3 or 4-man retinue in a Land Raider/Crusader. That would be more expensive, but still not as much as your GM build, and it would be more effective than either of your builds due to concentrating on CC.

 

Personally though, I like to go minimalistic with my GK HQs. I usually take a simple BC and either give him a psycannon and throw him in a mini-purg squad, or leave him bare or give him a Storm Shield and throw him in a vanilla PAGK squad. If you rely on Raiders and PAGKs with incinerators, a Storm Shield BC goes especially well with them. Any of these builds give you the benefit of costing very few points (anywhere from 61-91pts), and thus saving plenty of room in the list for other units.

[SamaNagol]

I would say at 1500pts, if you are going to go 2 units of PAGK, 1 GKT, then you need that GKT unit to be CC oriented with an Incinerator and a GM. If you are going 3 PAGK troops then go for the BC with a Psycannon and put him in the mini purgation squad. I find at 1500pts you really do not have room to plash the cash on extravagancies. You need as many bodies in those taxis as possible.

 

Personally with the 3 LR list I would either go with:

 

BC: Psycannon

 

5 GK inc Justicar

2 Psycannon

 

7 PAGK inc Justicar

2 Incinerators

 

7 PAGK inc Justicar

2 Incinerators

 

3x Godhammer Pattern Land Raider w/ Extra Armour

 

Or if you want to be more assault directed:

 

Grand Master

3 GKT Retinue w/ Incinerator

 

6 PAGK w 2x Incinerator

 

6 PAGK w 2x Incinerator

 

Land Raider Crusader

 

2 x Godhammer Pattern Land Raider with Extra Armour

 

Either way you arent getting much change out of 1500pts. In tournament settings I will probably put Sacred Incense on the GM. Maybe even a Psychic Hood. I wouldn't bother on the Brother Captain though.

[ASDF_]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I like the GM list last posted though. Would a third GodHammer in that list do fine, or is the Crusader necessary?

[SamaNagol]

It's just role specialisation. Something which is going to be rolling up close to drop off Assault units should take advantage of the fact that it is pretty useful shooting from close up. LRC will be best suited for that role.

 

Whereas the BC list with the purgation squad is going to be kiting and keeping a bit of space between itself and the enemy only disembarking when the odds are in your favour. You want to retain your mobility and take out the big threats from afar before they can pop you. GHLR will be better suited for that role.

 

The difference isn't huge, but it is the same principle as taking the GM with the GKT because you are angling towards assault and the GM is the superior HQ for that role.

[jeffersonian000]

The question on which to take should be based on: do I want to assault or do I want to stay at range? If it's ranged, stay with a Brother Captain; but if it's, assault, the GM + retinue looks great on paper and has that cool 3rd Ed Force Weapon rule.

 

However, compare these two GK Hero builds:

 

GM + 4x retinue GKT w/ 1x Incinerator (344pts)

8 bolter shots + 4-5 Incinerator hits

12 power weapon attacks, 17 on a charge, 4-5 can allow for an outright kill

 

HQ BC w/ Psycannon + 4x elite GKT w/ 2x Psycannons (345pts)

4 bolter shots + 9 Psycannon shots

12 power weapon attacks, 17 on a charge, no force weapon

 

Both groups have the same Weapon Skill, the same number of attacks in close combat, yet the GM is more survivable in close combat will the BC+GKT squad is better at ranged dakka and can do pretty well in close combat due to being two separate units during an assault.

 

Something to think about.

 

If I were to take a GM at 1500pts, I'd field this list:

 

(359pts)

GM w/ MC-NFW + retinue (4x GKT w/ 1x Incinerator)

 

:Troop: (186pts)

Justicar w/ frag grenades + 5x Knights w/ 1x Incinerator

 

:Troop: (186pts)

Justicar w/ frag grenades + 5x Knights w/ 1x Incinerator

 

(259pts)

GK LR Crusader w/ Smoke, Light

 

(255pts)

GK Land Raider w/ Extra Armour

 

(255pts)

GK Land Raider w/ Extra Armour

 

1500pts on the nose, 20 models, 7 kill points, etc.

 

SJ

 

*1st edit was because the forum ate part of my post. 2nd edit was for parts that were still missing after the 1st edit.

[SamaNagol]

It also ate your third LR? lol You also need to remember the GM is the only model in that list who gets to strike at I5, compared to the I4 BC.

 

That 4th GKT in the retinue would be at the expense of any wargear. I'd have to see what sort of setting I would be taking that list into.

[honersstodnt]

consider taking stern at lower points levels... he has 1 wound less than a grandmaster, sure, but you get 2 very useful psychic powers for free, not to mention the ability to re-roll one failed roll with him. with his retinue, he can't be targeted anyway, so he's not significantly less survivable than a normal GM.

[jeffersonian000]

I fixed the fix needed for the first fix. ;)

 

SJ

[Thaelion Hexis]

I will almost always use a Grand Master in 1500+ games. Occasionally in 1000pt, but not too often. I want the Initiative and power to be able to stand against enemy characters. Otherwise, unless I manage to get a dreadnought in there, that character will quite easily eat through my slower units. It is a huge investment, but cunningly moved, he can make all the difference.

 

I speak, of course, only from personal experience

[ASDF_]

I also had another question:

 

If i ordered the GKT boxed set (which I did), it says it includes a Brother-Captain. Can I use the Brother-Captain as a Grand Master? Or should I buy the Brother-Captain Stern model?

 

Thanks.

[Thaelion Hexis]

That Brother Captain in a fine model to use as either HQ. It stands out a little from the rest of the squad with it's extra detail. Grey Knights are a secretive chapter, their leaders need not be over blown glory seekers like their lesser marine brethren. I use that model myself, with the addition of a psycannon ( back when we could order a single one) and Stern's sword hand.

[SamaNagol]

Seeing as they don't make a Grand Master model you can use anythign that looks suitable. The GKT BC or Brother Captain Stern are both suitable for use as an HQ.

[ASDF_]

@ Marshal Paul:

 

Does it matter whether or not I use the Stern's hand, or are either NFW's legal and would still count as the Force Weapon that the GM has? Was just checking.

[SamaNagol]

In the codex it says NFW takes on many forms. You could have a Nemesis Force Walking Stick if you so desired.

[ASDF_]

Nice. Thanks <_<