Let's talk about melta bombs

[thade]

When I was sketching out my army and buying the parts to build it, before I'd even seen a gaming table, I put melta bombs on every sergeant, thinking they would be fundamental in taking down vehicles out on the field. Now I've not only seen quite a few of the more experienced posters on these boards talk unfavorably about said-bombs, but now I've seen it for myself:

 

A power-fist can give me 2-3 attacks which will very likely need to be 4+ (even vs a walker), and at Str 8 that 1d6 will crack anything that's AV12 or lower...which is the rear armor or better on almost any tank I've seen, save a LR. (The LR worries me with my current list, as the only other thing I have that could feasibly take it is a MM dreadnought.) I'm not sure I'd want my tac squad going toe-to-toe with a LR in the hopes that either a fist OR a melta bomb would crack it (or, more to the point, that the squad would survive long enough to crack it and not be cut down to only the sergeant).

 

A melta-bomb gives me one attack at which I need a 6 vs a walker (seems a little silly to me) or a 4+ otherwise...but it's still one attack. Seems like 5 pts wasted to me. Koremu (in another thread) mentioned melta bombs were for bunker busting...I almost feel like those five points may be pushed somewhere else on the list, and I could reduce the cost of virtually all of my marine squads by 5 points...or I could just kit up a special vanguard which is just five vets with storm shields and melta bombs for vehicle hunting.

 

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on melta bombs, positive or negative.

[Koremu]

For reference, I do take them, just not on every Sergeant, and I definitely prefer Power Fists for cracking vehicles.

 

Most Land Raiders are always going to be moving at least 6", probably 12", especially if they know you have Melta Bombs, so they are next to impossible to take down in CC anyway (which is the point of using a Land Raider, to be fair).

 

The places I do take them are on the occasional spare veteran in a Command Squad or Vanguard Squad, as a useful backup to the rest of the Squads anti-tank CC work with THammers and PFists.

 

If you absolutely one hundred percent have to take out a Land Raider in close combat, use a Chainfist. Accept no substitutes, it's the very best there is!

[thade]

If you absolutely one hundred percent have to take out a Land Raider in close combat, use a Chainfist. Accept no substitutes, it's the very best there is!

 

I can only put Chainfists on standard terminator squads and ironclad dreads, right? I think I'd like to find another way to take out LRs. =) Still, it's looking like I will def pull meltas out of most of my squads in favor of saving some points.

[Jezroth]

personnelly I'd olny give melta bombs to chew up a few spare points cause I mostly use either meltaguns or power/chain fists where possible

My sternguard squad has 4 out of five as combi- meltas the other is a combi-flamer

[Koremu]

If you absolutely one hundred percent have to take out a Land Raider in close combat, use a Chainfist. Accept no substitutes, it's the very best there is!

 

I can only put Chainfists on standard terminator squads and ironclad dreads, right? I think I'd like to find another way to take out LRs. =) Still, it's looking like I will def pull meltas out of most of my squads in favor of saving some points.

You can put a Chainfist on a Captain or Chapter Master too. Doing so and then adding him to a Terminator Assault Squad has served quite respectably in the past.

[Grey Mage]

Of course if your going to be CC close why not just take a meltagun or combi-melta *in most cases*.

[DemetriiTZ]

The only real use I've found for meltabombs is on squads who plan on camping objectives. A meltabomb will crack open a skimmer flying fast for a cover-saved Tank Shock, whereas a meltagun will only manage to sneak past the cover-save half the time. You'll land a S8+2d6 on the back armor, and you'll have a 50% chance of grounding it. If you went 2nd, you'll still have a further shot at dragging it down. So yeah, the 5 points is decent insurance for objective campers against a skimmershock, and not much else. There have been times when meltabombs saved me, but those times have been very few.

[Justicar Valius]

if you don't like takin a 100 point captain to give him a chainfist feel free to ally in a brother captain with one. At few points less than a captain for the guy and fist with the abilty to deepstrike, take another weapon and fearless is quite horrible. There is also the shrouding, the abilty to take an "old style" psychic hood at a fair amount of points, the shrouding and a free stormbolter. problem is with the cheapness you pay for a 1 wound character. Good alternative if your busting armour but a lot more expensive than melta bombs!

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

I also find meltabombs a cheap alternatives to PF's for a first turn charger, like scout bikers, LSS squads or shrike/infiltrated squads.

[HERO]

If you're punching a vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

 

That's what Meltaguns and combi-meltas are for.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Sometimes downing a tank in assault is the best course of action. Some tanks get weird upgrades and rules against shooting/melta. Plus Meltas won't auto hit non-moving targets.

[Giga]

I don't like meltabombs.

 

They're cheap, yeah, but most units that can take them are the same units that I don't really want to use for close combat to begin with.

 

Assaulting transports (land raiders included) in general I find isn't such a great idea a lot of the time - I much prefer destroying the transport with shooting, and then assaulting the occupants.

 

Hence, meltaguns and multimeltas (on attack bikes, bikers, sternguard, land speeders, etc.) are the best way to take out transports. Close combat should, IMHO, be the last resort.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

I don't like meltabombs, especially vs. raiders.

You kill the raider, whatever was inside charges and kills you into lots of tiny bits.

 

If you're punching a vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

 

That's what Meltaguns and combi-meltas are for.

I support this viewpoint wholeheartedly.

[bystrom]

I don't like meltabombs, especially vs. raiders.

You kill the raider, whatever was inside charges and kills you into lots of tiny bits.

 

If you're punching a vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

 

That's what Meltaguns and combi-meltas are for.

I support this viewpoint wholeheartedly.

 

If you're using melta guns, you shoot the raider (most likely using the Melta rule, so you're within 6"), next turn, whatever was inside charges and kills you into lots of tiny bits.

 

I don't see the difference?

 

I guess you're shooting the vehicle, then using other units to destroy the occupants? That's about the same as charging the raider with several squads and blocking all exits, though this would be more difficult.

 

How does the rules work for emergency disembarkation? If the embarked squad (Emb. squad) can't do anything for the rest of the turn (the assaulting squad's (A. squad) turn), then the Emb. squad would be able to function normally in their own turn, thus charging, thus making the emergency disembarkation moot? Is this a correct interpretation?

[Giga]

If you're using melta guns, you shoot the raider (most likely using the Melta rule, so you're within 6"), next turn, whatever was inside charges and kills you into lots of tiny bits.

 

I don't see the difference?

Or, you shoot the land raider. Then you shoot the occupants with the rest of your army. Then you assault whatever has survived and wipe it out. Unit-synergy, and all.

[thade]

If you're punching a vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

 

That's what Meltaguns and combi-meltas are for.

 

I kill most of my vehicles with missile-fire (believe it or not) and my single lascannon, but more than a few fall to my assault teams with their power fist or thunder hammer (I have yet to build a second thunderhammer serg). VS the back armor on most vehicles in the game, a veteran's 2-3 attacks (or in the case of my duel-wielding vanguard, 3-4) with a power fist are pretty deadly.

 

EDIT: I find it funny that I started this post, and now, several games later, I am responding to it as if I know something. :) I don't put meltas on my tac squads anymore...only on my assault squads if I have points to spare and I have a LR to kill.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

If a squad kills a transport in shooting, it can charge the former occupants in that assault phase.

[chapter master 454]

I say never leave home without them on tacticals. It makes the opponent alot more jumpy about bring their more powerful tanks close so that creates a 12" fear bubble (18" if you have shrike, he gives you fleet), and so far I remember one game where one of my two land raiders was actually chasing another land raider round the board (I mean like on in it's rear arc with the min 1" between) firing it's MM in an attempt to slow it down while in the process recieveing some MM too. Eventually it was brought to a grinding halt when one of my tacticals got it with a lucky melta bomb. Imagine if you will a marine doing his best epic throw! While it didn't kill it set up for lysander and 4 other chainfists, so thats 12 auto-hitting chainfists plus auto-hitting lysander. I doubt I need continue.

 

Melta bombs are by far the one upgrade I consider useful for my troops, I have a strong reliance on armour and I hate to be out-done by it so I always pack melta bombs and not girly fairy wands that are called 'power fists' or 'power weapons' (the latter appears on ocassion when I ain't feeling well and fielding troops). If a walker or tank has gotten to the range of my infantry charging then something has gone wrong and needs a fix, a proper melta bombing. Meltaguns are just too unreliable and to quite frank, I don't use troops for attack.

[thade]

That was my opinion originally, but my opponents of late have the "You have to roll a 6, I'll bet on those odds" mentality. So the 20ish points I save there I've put to uses other places in recent games. I haven't yet missed them. When I do, I'll reconsider. -_-

[Thantoes]

Personally I only put them on my power weapon armed sergeants and then only if I have the points to spare. Seems to work reasonably well.

[eyescrossed]

Or, you shoot the land raider. Then you shoot the occupants with the rest of your army. Then you assault whatever has survived and wipe it out. Unit-synergy, and all.

With what? Lascannons fail miserably at cracking LRs, and even with a Multi-melta you will be in charge range next turn.

Of course, shooting the unit inside to bits helps, but then you're only focussing on them.

[Giga]

With what? Lascannons fail miserably at cracking LRs, and even with a Multi-melta you will be in charge range next turn.

Of course, shooting the unit inside to bits helps, but then you're only focussing on them.

This is the way I usually go about destroying my regular opponent's Khorne LR, and dealing with the occupants (Kharne + a bunch of zerkers);

 

I drive my LR (with vulkan and termies inside) close to his LR (into assault range). Disembark vulkan + termies. Then I drive my speeders, or attack bikes, or sternguard with meltaguns, into the 12" range for the melta (sternguard into the 6", obviously). If I can, I place the speeders real close to the land raider, into heavy flamer range. Generally, I have 6 multimeltas present + the multimelta and lascannons on the LR.

 

Depending on preference and situation, I shoot either with the sternguard, attack bike, or speeder meltas into the LR. Usually, 3 twinlinked meltas should be enough to at least wreck the raider. If not, I use the next unit etc. The point being, by the time speeders and bikes have shot their meltas, the raider is usually destroyed and Kharne & co have disembarked into charge range for Vulkan. This is the redundancy at work - a full multimelta attack bike squadron should take out a LR, but I bring one or two other units to support it, just in case I roll bad dice or opponent rolls good cover saves (if he has any). :)

 

Then I shoot the passengers with vulkan's heavy flamer, leftover meltas (if they aren't needed elsewhere), landraider armaments, speeders heavy flamers if they're close enough and didn't have to shoot at the LR, and whatever other firepower I can spare. Usually by the end of the shooting phase, there are kharne + 3 or 4 dudes left. Vulkan & termies charge in. Vulkan usually kills 2-4 zerkers on the charge before they get to swing and if I'm lucky Kharne helps me out and kills one or two berzerkers, as well. Kharne usually kills one termie. Termies insta-kill kharne.

 

As you can see, when popping land raiders & killing the occupants, I get my HQ, my termies, my own LR, and two other anti-tank units to work together to do it. Someone might say it's bad to focus 80% of my army like this, but in my opinion, that's unit synergy - especially in important moments, such as taking off the beasts head.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, at times I'll have horribly bad dice and won't be able to destroy the LR. At this point I'll usually charge the LR with my termies and vulkan, surround the exits, and do my best to at least immobilize it (which is something I usually succeed at, even with bad luck). This means kharne & co can't disembark in the following turn. I might get my vulkan and termies charged by another group of zerkers, but oh well, that's when vulkan gets to tarpit them for a few turns and slowly take them out. :P

[chapter master 454]

That was my opinion originally, but my opponents of late have the "You have to roll a 6, I'll bet on those odds" mentality. So the 20ish points I save there I've put to uses other places in recent games. I haven't yet missed them. When I do, I'll reconsider. ;)

 

I'm someone who tends to not use power swords or power fists, so melta bombs are often a good replacement and since I get 3 for one power sword I find it a good deal. Three squads get a benefit instead of one. I haven't used them much to tell the truth but more from just putting in the min scouts than actual 'not upgrading', I do however feel your opponent will get jumpy, land raiders can only fire once when going 12" so that reduces their firepower GREATLY since most land raiders get to the max K value in kill hammer when moving no more than 6" among enemy lines. But don't come crying when you do reconsider :)

[I AM THE AWESOME]

That was my opinion originally, but my opponents of late have the "You have to roll a 6, I'll bet on those odds" mentality. So the 20ish points I save there I've put to uses other places in recent games. I haven't yet missed them. When I do, I'll reconsider. ;)

 

I'm someone who tends to not use power swords or power fists, so melta bombs are often a good replacement and since I get 3 for one power sword I find it a good deal. Three squads get a benefit instead of one. I haven't used them much to tell the truth but more from just putting in the min scouts than actual 'not upgrading', I do however feel your opponent will get jumpy, land raiders can only fire once when going 12" so that reduces their firepower GREATLY since most land raiders get to the max K value in kill hammer when moving no more than 6" among enemy lines. But don't come crying when you do reconsider B)

 

When moving 6", K1 increases. You can fire more weapons.

 

But when moving 12", K2 and D1 increase, while D2 decreases (all good things). You can apply what firepower you do have better, and not only are you more survivable in CC, but you also have a greater chance of staying away from the nasty stuff.

 

At least, that's how I read it.

[Inquisitor Gabriel Lupus]

Generally I don't equip many models with melta bombs, but it is a useful failsafe for my Marine Captain (who has twin lightning claws) and his command squad (power swords). Thing is, if you have powerfists (or even better, chainfists) melta bombs are a bit pointless.

 

Basically, if you want to concentrate on negating armour saves in combat (hence power weapons) and therefore have no anti-vehicle close combat defence, then melta bombs are useful to save them against dreaded dreadnought attacks, or opportunist tank hunting.