thade Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 At 3 melee attacks each it's either +2d6 to penetrate (which seems a guaranteed pen as a dread ccw is str 10), or +1d6 to penetrate (which again at str 10 is also very likely to crack the armor) with the bonus of +1 on the vehicle damage chart. I guess if my opponent fields multiple land raiders I'll want to sport the chainfist, but I'm thinking the seismic hammer is a better idea over all. Honestly my hope is to use some magnet magic to make both fists interchangable so I can try them both. Anyone have any experience with either/both of these weapons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezroth Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 basically I'd go with the seismic hammer for the same reason even for a land raider as theres still a 50% chance to hit (roughly depending on how far they move) and 50% chance to damage it one way or another Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakus40k Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Just FYI, you get a full arm for each option...you don't have to magnetize anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Just FYI, you get a full arm for each option...you don't have to magnetize anything. orly? @_@ ...they...they pop on and off politely? =D That's like a dream. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 So kinda like the normal dreadnaught... well heck, I hope we have them in the new SW codex then :(. As for SH vs CF Id say the Hammer wins for me. Striking at initiative with a bonus on the damage table seems IMHO far superior on a walker that is already strength 10. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I agree that the Hammer is generally the better weapon; most of the time a Chainfist's extra penetration is overkill on a Dreadnought, and the Hammer's +1 to vehicle damage and ability to strike at initiative will usually be more valuable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If I recall I crunched the numbers vs AV 14 and the chainfist came out way ahead, I'll crunch vs other AV later, its late now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If I recall I crunched the numbers vs AV 14 and the chainfist came out way ahead, I'll crunch vs other AV later, its late now. Not surprising that the Chainfist comes out ahead against AV 14, but the only vehicles with rear armor 14 are Land Raiders and Monoliths and Monoliths don't allow bonus dice. The vast majority of vehicles are rear armor 10 with the occasional 11 thrown in; in those cases the Chainfist's extra penetration dice are overkill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If I recall I crunched the numbers vs AV 14 and the chainfist came out way ahead, I'll crunch vs other AV later, its late now. Not surprising that the Chainfist comes out ahead against AV 14, but the only vehicles with rear armor 14 are Land Raiders and Monoliths And fortifications. The Ironclad is supposed to be for bunker-busting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I can see where the Chainfist would be useful in Planetstrike games but otherwise I take the Hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I don't have C:SM so i would like to know if you could take both? That would ruin me as i field multiple raiders. yeh That ironclad would ruin my raiders to find loads of sterngth 6 guys to hit on its AV13 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Can't take both; the codex specifies that the seismic hammer is standard wargear and it may be *replaced* by the chainfist. The dread can take an additional DCCW though, giving it 4 attacks on the charge, all with one of those two devestating hits. Str 6 = you can't hurt my dread? With my vanguard flying right behind my dread, and the techmarine on its ass? I'll take those odds. ;) EDIT: egregious math error corrected. @_@ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Actualy its 4 attacks on the charge id you take the aditional DCCW. Anywho % chance to kill per hit from AV10 to AV 14 rounded to the nearest % Seismic hammer 50/44/36/28/19 Chainfist 33/33/32/30/28 % chance to weapondestroy/imobilize per hit from AV10 to AV 14 rounded to the nearest % Seismic hammer 33/33/28/22/17 Chainfist 33/33/33/32/30 % chance to stun/shake per hit from AV10 to AV 14 rounded to the nearest % Seismic hammer 17/22/19/17/14 Chainfist 33/33/34/34/33 So as you can see, the hammer is difinitively better vs AV 10 and 11 (and the monolith), and the Chainfist is difinitively better vs AV 13 and 14. Vs AV 12 its can be debaited either way, the hammer having a better chance to kill, but the Chainfists increased chance to imobilize/weapon destroy gives it a better overall chance to do something (aka not wiff) Notes: Remember you hit the FRONT armor of enemy walkers The Seismic hammer has no bonus vs superheavies The chainfist provides no bonus vs the monolith If you are running the aditional DCCW you can (likely) choose to strike with it at I4 with no bonuses without losing the bonus attack. less than 2% of the worlds population is naturaly redheaded, red is the most popular color of hair dye. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I don't have C:SM so i would like to know if you could take both? That would ruin me as i field multiple raiders. yeh That ironclad would ruin my raiders to find loads of sterngth 6 guys to hit on its AV13 S6 can't hurt AV13. Rolling a 6 on a D6 would only give a S6 model a total of S12. The Ironclad could just wade in unharmed. Ah. AV13. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 I don't have C:SM so i would like to know if you could take both? That would ruin me as i field multiple raiders. yeh That ironclad would ruin my raiders to find loads of sterngth 6 guys to hit on its AV13 S6 can't hurt AV13. Rolling a 6 on a D6 would only give a S6 model a total of S12. The Ironclad could just wade in unharmed. Ah. AV13. Shh. Don't spoil the surprise. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I don't have C:SM so i would like to know if you could take both? That would ruin me as i field multiple raiders. yeh That ironclad would ruin my raiders to find loads of sterngth 6 guys to hit on its AV13 S6 can't hurt AV13. Rolling a 6 on a D6 would only give a S6 model a total of S12. The Ironclad could just wade in unharmed. Ah. AV13. Shh. Don't spoil the surprise. <3 Lol. I shan't mention the two Heavy Flamers. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2095935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If I recall I crunched the numbers vs AV 14 and the chainfist came out way ahead, I'll crunch vs other AV later, its late now. I ran the numbers thinking only about Planetstrike, and THIS. Since initiative doesn't matter much against a building, the CF is the better bastion popper. In other contexts, though, the SH certainly has its merits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2096129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muctar Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 No guts, no glory! +1 Seismic hammer for the kill! You don't want your IC tied up too long in combat with another walker, and if you assault a vehicle it's because you need it gone for tactical reasons, or the kill point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177244-ironclad-dread-seismic-hammer-vs-chainfist/#findComment-2096370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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