yodaid764 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I did a custom model taking the storm shield from the Masters of the Chapter set and put it on the Chapter master with the Power Fist holding the helmet. While the model looks cool, I have only played one game with him. I had him embedded with a command squad. Overall I did poorly vs my Ork Opponent (though in retrospect, I learned after re-reading the rules he was either cheating or just didnt know the rules in several ways: i.e. not removing whole models with several wounds first, instant death from weapons with double or more toughness on those same Nobs etc). Bt I want some other input. Is a SM Captain with a P Fist and Storm Shield viable? No ranged attack unless I throw a aux grenade launcher on him. But that puts his points over 150. I plan on play testing it more when I have the chance. Just wondering if anyone else has tried this kit with any success. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 In answer to your question, I think a Captain with a PF and a SS is a fine idea; just make sure he has back-up in the form of a squad to at least soak hits for him, at best to make up for his weaknesses (i.e. a command squad with a lot of fire power, a tac squad, etc). i.e. not removing whole models with several wounds first, instant death from weapons with double or more toughness on those same Nobs etc). Most models, esp. orks, only have one wound to give for their country. =P The notable exception being HQs/Warbosses. What models did he leave on the board that you feel should have been removed? What were the circumstances? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ork Nobz have 2 wounds each and come in mobs of 10. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodaid764 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 The unit in question was a group of Nobz with a pain boy (medic equivilent IIRC). I have not played against Orks since 3rd ed. But there were several times where Pedro hit them inflicting 1 wound with his P Fist. Unless they had some special rule I dont know about, according to the main rule book the Nobz should have been one shot kills with it. Secondly, when the Tac Squad with Pedro inflicted wounds in HTH, he spread the wounds around so that after 3 rounds or so of HTH only 1 model died IIRC. Every other 1 had a wound on him, but I believe whole models should have been removed first. Plus someone else told him that Feel No Pain worked in that you got to re-roll your failed armor saves. (I was right there when he was told how it works according to this other guy.) I looked that up too. Wrong! But that was not my opponent's fault so I'm not making a fuss over that. I definitely want a rematch against this player so I can call BS on some of this and hopefully redeem myself. Overall it would not have changed the fact I lost badly. Just not being able to inflict enough damage to remove whole units in an Annihilation mission sucks! One other question however...he had a group of ork commandoz led by some special character that was able to flank or something. He had them walk in from MY table edge behind my lines. Now, I know I have been out of 40k since 3rd ed and things have changed...but never before could your models flank/inflitrate etc from an opponents table edge. Did I get screwed on that too?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Spreading the wounds around CAN be done if the models have different wargear, wounds are alocated to like groups (based on wargear) and do not flow over from one to the other, see pg 25 complex models, that should be combined with pg 26. Feal no pain grants a 4+ save in adition to armor, so if the nobs where 'ard (aka wearing 4+ armor) then treating it as a reroll of the armor save will make no difference (except that you cant use FNP vs something that causes instant death) The ability is called outflank, and lets you come from the sides, if he came from your table edge he was doing it wrong, If he come from the side right next to your table edge that is fine. Pg 94 has the rules for outflanking You are correct though, powerfist hits wounds should have killed the nobz right out. And they are required to take off unwounded models for instant death wounds if posible (but again this is only within "like groups" of wargear, if all his nobz had different wargear he could alocate that wound to a group that only has wounded nobz) Edit: The special komando leader is Boss Snikrot, and he CAN come in from any table edge, and can do so without rolling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Some good responses above re rules etc. The only thing to consider is, Nobz apart, you want to be using the advantage of your Independent Character's (IC) high Initiative (I5) when assaulting. To that end, many prefer to use Power Weapons (S4 with bonus attack for pistol), Lightning Claws (S4, no bonus atack, but with re-rolls) or a Relic Blade (S6, no bonus attack) with their captain. This way, you get to remove a LOT of the opposing squads models BEFORE they hit back. Of course, with Nobz, they 2 wounds means that they're still around (S4 isn't instant death). I like to make sure that the combination of the squad+the IC have both a high I/med-high S and a med-high I/high S weapon, eg Captain with Relic Blade (I5/S6) and Veteran Sergeant with PowerFist/ThunderHammer (I4/S8). In your case, you might want to look at giving the Command Squad some "fast" weapons, especially the Champion and/or the ability, through assault weaponry (eg meltagun=AP1, plasma pistol=AP2), to whittle the numbers down BEFORE the charge. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 That being said I think that a SS+PF wielding "Company Champion" *in name only* is a wonderful way to go. But if the command squad is all PWs or LCs and such then a PF or a TH isnt a problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ork Nobz have 2 wounds each and come in mobs of 10. Ah, so they do. So, this is news to me...if you have a squad of like-nobz and one of them takes a wound, then the next time wounds are dealt to that unit, the wounded one *has* to take another. Time for me to go back and read through the wound allocation rules again. @_@ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodaid764 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 The Nobz had variable wargear. 2 had big choppas. A few more had whatever regular CC weapons they come with, and the leader had a power claw/fist equivilant weapon. Either way, I believe there should have been several whole models removed over the 3 or so rounds of CC and not just indivudual wounds being spread out to avoid casualties which would have reduced the number of attacks coming back at my marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The Nobz had variable wargear. 2 had big choppas. A few more had whatever regular CC weapons they come with, and the leader had a power claw/fist equivilant weapon. Either way, I believe there should have been several whole models removed over the 3 or so rounds of CC and not just indivudual wounds being spread out to avoid casualties which would have reduced the number of attacks coming back at my marines. Your probably right, but remember that not only do they have the assorted melle weapons, but also several different types of ranged weaponry, as well as some generic wargear (boss pole, waaagh banner). It is common stratatgy to speficly equip each nob differently so that you can play "musical wounds" Tyranid warriors will also sometimes use tha trick, though thats about it as IIRC no other multiwound multi-model units have that level of wargear customization. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Sounds like a good (if annoying) trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightguy Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ork Nobs are able to masterfully abuse the wound allocation rules. 10 2 wound models can all be equipped with different gear meaning that excess wounds against one don't affect the others. It's legit if annoying. Watch out though if several have the same kit. If you have three with the same gear, they share wounds as normal. It has been correctly mentioned that a fist should be an instant kill against a Nob. Also note that the feel no pain USR cannot be used against AP1 or 2 weapons or attacks which don't allow armor saves. In this respect it is sort of like re-rolling on the ork's 4+ heavy armor, but not quite. In general Nobs are quite nasty, but also quite slow. They have low Inits and their best weapons are power klaws which put them at I1 just like a fist. Paulochromis has the right remedy. Relic blades, power weapons and lightning claws will strike first and ignore their saves. The orks do have a special character, Snikrot, which when bought as an upgrate to the Kommandos allows them to enter from your table edge. Not sure if it's automatic or if there is a roll, but it can happen. He's very popular in a build with two flamers and a power klaw in the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/177248-sm-capt-with-fist-and-shield/#findComment-2095897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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