New to 40k forums in general~

[Might Iquisitor Lord Bob]

Greeting fellow Inquisition players.

 

I come to you today with heavy concerns. While I'm not one much for forums and "stealing" other peoples army lists, i often think myself to be a relatively good tactician in my own right and usually field sound tactical solutions.

 

So i venture off to a new game store that opened in my area, to aquire new combat experiances. Well lets just say this experiance, brought me here looking for tactical review and collaberation. Firstly I'll lay out my list, at 1850 level, and explain my tactical reasoning for my choices.

 

HQ1: Total: [418]

Cannoness: Blessed Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Cloak of St. Aspira, Litanies of Faith, Mantel of Ofilia. [136]

Retinue: VSS Celestian w/ Eviserator + Plasma Pistol, 8 Celestians with Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, and Imagifier. [209]

Repressor w/smoke: [73]

The Cannoness "Phaith" has served me well in several incarnations, from stopping the almighty assault terminators and personally cutting down several platoons of guardsmen, she almost never lets me down.

 

HQ2: [460]

Grey Knight Grand Master: Sacred Incense, Demon Hammer, Psycannon [215]

Retinue: 5 Grey Knight Terminators w/ Incinerator(1) [245]

Much like the Cannoness, Grey Knight Grand Master "Murphy" has only on occasion let me down, but is more often one of my most reliable shock troops able to knock damn near anything i want off an objective.

 

Elite:[280]

Inquistor "Timmy": Shotgun & Familiar [27]

Landraider w/ smoke [253]

Sadly Timmy is here for his Land('s) Raider. Not much else, he never gets to ride in it and normally has to hide somewhere during Kill point games. The Grey Knights normally jump in his ride first turn.(We had the general agreement that land raiders from any codex have the same transport capacity.)

 

Troop1: Battle Sister Squad(10): VSS With Eviserator and bolt Pistol, Imagifier, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer [191]

 

Troop2: Battle Sister Squad(10): VSS With Eviserator and bolt Pistol, Imagifier, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer [191]

Pretty standard stuff here, w/out a transport they lack a lot of punch and ability to deliver the holy cleansing flames, however they have been marginally effective as screeners, supporting and intercepting forces attacking the guard platoon often planted on an objective.

 

Troop3: Inducted Guard Platoon(combined):[175]

Command:Vox, 3x Gernade launchers.[50]

Squad1:Autocannon & Vox [65]

Squad2:Autocannon[60]

Once again nothing to crazy here, fairly standard "small" guard platoon do great on sitting on an objective and shooting like crazy to keep things away. "First rank, fire! Second rank, fire!" Has downed many Marine squads comming for my objectives.

 

Heavy: Exorcist [135]

I love this baby, As far as medium armor removal you simply do not get much better, and with a Land Raider out there and some Grey Knights bringing attention, this baby tends to fall a bit lower on target Priority lists.

 

I've had mostly good luck with this list, some lists however have given me troubles. Firstly I'll bring up the list that obliterated me and caused me to come here for tactical review. It was a standard space Marine list, using Vulkan Ha'Stan, 6 basic marine squads (flamer and multimelta) 10 strong each inside a rhino with no upgrades. Additionally, and this is what really put a hurting on me, 3 Drop pods total, 2 of them had Stearngaurd squads each with 5 melta guns, and 5 combi meltas. One of them had Vulcan with them. I dont even know what was in the other drop pod because by the bottom of turn 2 my forces were so depleted i simply threw in the flag.

 

The Turns went, as near as my Terrible memory can recall as follows:

Turn1, Top(me): I pack in my Grey Knights, move 6 inches and pop 2 rhinos with lascannons, Destroying one. Move my Repressor 12, and pop smoke, Shoot 1 Exorcist missle(first sign of the dice gods abandoning me this game) and blew the storm bolter off one rhino. Shot off 2 Auto cannons from my Guard platoon and immobilized another Rhino.

 

Not horrible in my opinion stopped some of the forward assault.

 

Turn1, Bottom(Him): Both Sternguard squads and drops pods both land on target, squads get out, combat squad and pop my land raider, 2 Grey Knights, Exorcist and Repressior (all Destroyed or wrecked). Then uses 3 Marine squads freshly deployed from Rhino's to pepper my Cannoness and a near by Battle sister squad. Dice gods once again telling me that its not my day... i have 5 battle sisters left in one squad and the Cannones and VSS left from the other(Cannoness with one wound).

 

Turn2, Top(Me): Dismayed i'm not quite ready to give up the goat yet, i push my Battle Sister Squad forward and dump holy flames on the marines, a plasma pistol bolt and a melta shot. The cannones and VSS Celestian move up and dump there pistol rounds into another squad, The infantry Platoon decimates one combat squad and the battle sisters cause the other combat squad from that pod to fall back. They grey knights go after Vulkans squad pepper it with holy flame and psycannon before dual assaulting both squads. The Cannoness and her Celestian charge as do the 5 Sister strong squad remaining and Grey knights, whiping out most of the Stern Guard (i made the mistake assuming Vulkan was fearless), losing 1 Grey Knight To Vulkan and another to a standard Marine (go go dice gods), i still win combat. The Cannoness Surges takes down 4 marines and the VSS gets downed before ever taking a swing, but they fail leadership and break off, with the Cannoness in pursuit. The 5 battle sisters lost combat, but hold on with the VSS holding the battle.

 

Turn2, Bottom: The lone survivor from one of the sternguard squads moves in and pops a Bolt pistol into my platoon, 2 of the squad from the back move up and close range on my guard platoon. one squad is occupieing the middle of the field in a rhino waiting for something useful to do. cannoness survives shooting, and the turn rapidly goes into assaults. The lone Stearngaurd assaults the platoon, somehow surviving but dealing no casualties, Vulkan cuts down the remaining greyknights short of the Grand Master, Vulcan still has no wounds and the grand master has 1.

 

It was at this point i conceded the game. Vulcan was going to kill the Grand Master (Hits on 3's wounds on 2's Vs a 5+ INV save and hitting on 4's wounding on 2's Vs a 3+ INV save). The cannoness would of cut down the last squad but was on her own now, and needed to do alot of foot slogging to get to the marines on the other side of the board, 2 squads of marines were about to dump twin linked flammer death on my gaurd platoon as soon as it was out of close combat, leaving me effectively with a cannoness, 1 faith point, litanies, and one full battle sister squad to combat Vulkan and 4 full 10 man Marine squads.

 

I admit i had A LOT going bad for me this game, Dice gods being one of them. That happens and i dont blame it exclusively. The main thing as this was a 4x4 playing field, and secondly his list was designed to cripple current 5th edition armies that are transport heavy, plus has enough template weapons to deal with hordes. I'm not sure what was in that other drop pod but i'm going to guess something to the effect of an iron clad with hurricane bolters and heavy flamer with hammer. Also i was vastly out numbered witch is always bad when going up with marines.

 

A long post I know, but I feel it was necessary to outlay the tactical nuances of the battle as it transpired. Can anyone offer any suggestions to my list that will make it more Viable vs. these types of armies.

 

Also i have difficulty dealing with Fast assault armies such as Chaos berzerkers(dual prince's with lashes of coarse) and Orcs in Battle Wagons and on bikes. so any input that can help better round out this list would be greatly appreciated.

 

IQ Lord Bob.

[Chengar Qordath]

Welcome to the Inquisition!

 

If you don't mind a bit of feedback on your list, there's a few things that bear pointing out. First off, you should probably check out the rule update for Imperial Armor 2 (available here) since the new rules have a Repressor as costing 50 points with smoke launchers as standard, and the Inquisitor Raider also has smoke launchers as standard.

 

For the GKGM, I've never been a big fan of giving him a Daemonhammer; his Nemesis Force Weapon is already an insanely powerful weapon and comes completely free of cost.

 

As you've said, your Battlesister squads need transports. I'd seriously advise finding something you can afford to trim out of your list to give both squads Rhinos or Repressors. Imagifiers might be a good choice for trimming; lots of people say they aren't worth their cost (your experience may differ though). I'm also not a huge fan of Eviscerators on a WS 3 Battlesister Superior, (Celestian Superiors are another matter due to Holy Hatred) but as before you might have found them more worthwhile than I have. Also not a big fan of Plasma pistols on Eviscerator-equipped VSSs; the pistol generally does not do enough damage to justify killing the risk of killing a model that costs over 60 points with all it's wargear because of a single "Gets Hot" result.

 

Exorcists are great. If you can, fit another one into the list.

[Gornall]

For one, if you're recalling his list correctly, he was running a 2000+ point list:

 

Vulkan =190

6 Tactical Squads with Rhinos =1230

20 Sternguard with Combis/Meltas and 2 DPs =670

 

That's 2090 right there without the 3rd DP. Mind you, 250ish points at that level won't completely make the difference, but it sure never hurts. Also, while Vulkan is a beast, you only need one hit to make it through with that Daemonhammer (I'd probably go Forceweapon, though) to turn him into goo. With alpha-strike drop pod lists, you want to use screening units (like your Sisters) as much as possible to keep out those pods outside of double dice range. Yeah, you might lose a Sister's squad or two to melta fire, but that's better than the alternative. That and you might have been too aggressive, as if you had possibly held back more, you could have taken out the Sternguard completely before his Rhinos made it into the fray. Just some thoughts.

[Might Iquisitor Lord Bob]

No i recalled his list right and accually pointed it up myself, he was WAY over pointed, even with the 3rd drop pod with a 100 point thunder fire in it it was still 2225, 375 points over the game limit. Witch would of been more troops on my side ideally. Teach me to not review army lists before the game. I feel less bad about loosing now. Anyhow, i still have issues with fast assault armies as mentioned in my main post. So additional help and recommendations would be great there.

[Justicar Valius]

No.1 Get rid of GM's daemonhammer.

 

That saves you a good 30 points. get rid of some other stuff and get EVERYONE a transport (sept GKT which can deepstrike behind a building and make a mess of your opponent and forget the guard)

[number6]

Your opponent spent too many points, but he could have dropped more than 500 and still thrashed your army. The reason is because your opponent is playing a synergistic 100% mechanized army. The army you fielded is a footslogging mishmash of unoptimized units. You really had no chance, even if the points were even, or even if your opponent had brought 300 pts less to the table than you did.

 

5th edition is really all about hybrid and 100% mechanized lists. You need to field such a list yourself, as it is both the only way to be competitive and the only way to counter competitive lists like the Vulkan list you faced.

 

Mount up everything that can be mounted up. That means GKTs have a transport dedicated for their use. Ideally that would be a GK LRC, but since you are playing WH ... get at least one chimera for your IG platoon and give one to the GKTs. While on that subject, exchange the GKT incinerator for another psycannon and let all 5 of your GKTs sit in that Chimera and shoot out the top hatch. Threaten an assault, but spend most of your time shooting. Give that Chimera a heavy flamer on the hull and you'll have a real beast in the midfield that nobody will want to touch.

 

Drop your Elite Inquisitor and his land raider. Spend those points on more mounted Sisters Troops units with meltas or more inducted IG. Or both.

 

One Exorcist is an easy target to eliminate and is not anything to fear. Three is something the opponent has to actually worry about.

 

I'd chop down the Canoness/Celestian unit so that it could fit into an Immolator. Give the girls meltas instead and let the Immolator do the flaming. I'd look to get a 2nd similar Celestian unit in an Immolator as well.

 

There's lots more that could be done to tune your list so that it's more competitive. But this is a good start. You need MUCH MUCH more anti-armour and mobility than you are currently fielding. Meching up and taking meltas is the way to go with a WH list.

[Might Iquisitor Lord Bob]

Excellent! I really appreciate the input provided thus far. Let me touch on a couple things and offer my counter arguments, or concerns about certain recommended changes thus far provided.

 

The first seems to be a general opinion to drop the demon hammer off the Grey Knight Grand Master... Upon review of the units applicable tactical purpose i agree with this, the hammer is only really there to deal with something annoying like an iron clad or even a standard pastern dread, however, i shouldn't be sending Grey Knight Terminators after such hard targets to begin with. If i wanted to cause Vulkan instant death i would just need for him to fail one invulnerable save... then bam force weapon attack. I kind of forgot that Grand Masters have that.

 

The second common suggestion is that the sisters need transports, i couldn't agree more. Just need to do some trimming to get there. It almost brought tears to my eyes when i saw that IA2 update and the reduced costs of Repressors, Land(s) Raider(with increased troop capasity), Rhinos and Chimeras with smoke launchers standard.

As for more individual Suggestions:

 

Chengar Qordath's Suggestions:

"Imagifiers might be a good choice for trimming; lots of people say they aren't worth their cost"

"I'm also not a huge fan of Eviscerators on a WS 3 Battlesister Superior"

"Also not a big fan of Plasma pistols on Eviscerator-equipped VSSs"

"Exorcists are great. If you can, fit another one into the list."

 

-Imagifiers are kind of a waist in general, only have been useful once or twice when trying to pass the AP1 wounding rolls with less then like 7 or 8 units left just because the heavy flamer hit enough. But in general, its not really worth it, Already in the process of trimming those out.

 

-Eviscerators i will argue on, These have helped many times, usually in cutting down tanks after failed tank shock attempts. or to deal with that tank squadron that's been hammering you all game. Really would like to keep these as they are a wonderful utility, and being WS 3 isetn all that horrible you still typically need a 4 to hit space marines or dreads tanks that moved or 6's on ones that have.

 

-You may be onto something with the plasma pistols, as i used to field them in all my squads, actually one of the VSS popping herself in a game helped me cause Martyrdom was the only thing that allowed my Cannonness to finish off the assault terminators that game cause i had otherwise ran out of faith. While an odd quark yes, only reason i left it in the celestian squad was to give that squad additional "punch" before the assault.

 

-I'ld love to squeeze more exorcists into this list, and i'm working on it XD just need to trim down some of the slop.

 

Gornall's Suggestion:

"With alpha-strike drop pod lists, you want to use screening units (like your Sisters) as much as possible to keep out those pods outside of double dice range"

 

Viable strategy and doable with deployments i could simply deploy sisters outside of transports and then pack them back in after the drop pod assault happens.

 

Also if i know i'm facing a dropped list i can opt to keep a vast majority of my forces in reserves and bring them on later to reduce the massive impact the drop pods can have. I haven't faced vary many aggressive drop pod lists, so its something i'm going to need to work on.

 

As for number6... I'm not going to bother quoting your intire post as it was accurate, harsh but accurate but would like to debate a couple of the changes you recommend.

 

Going out of order because ... well its me XD... The Inquisitor and Land Raider. I really like using the Land Raider to transport the knights it keeps them mostly safe and even when you do crack the shell its not like you got anything nicer to play with inside. While your Chimera idea with the twin phycannons IS interesting, it does remove there primary use in my army as a surge assult troop as they will not be able to launch assaults quite as quickly as they had been before. That may however, be a bad thing as i may be trying to play my list a bit too aggressively. I don't mind dropping Timmy... he was only there for the Raider anyhow. Tho i may continue to bring him for a Callidus Assassin, but i also thought of using a demon hunter Inquistor over as an ally as well, giving him a psycannon and attaching him to the greyknights. Just a thought tho.

 

Exorcist have already been covered so next topic of Cannoness and Celestians. I did some thinking on this one, while your provided option works, and i've used it in the past(This list has been threw several incantations) this was trying to give the cannoness a few more ablative wounds so she could proper stomp standard troops. I had a slightly different idea tho, and that was to try to put her in with some Seriphim, changing her build slightly... well this is what i came up with:

 

Cannoness:[145]

Blessed Weapon

Brazier of Holy Fire

Cloak of St. Aspira

Jump Pack

Mantel of Ophelia

Book of St. Lucius

 

Seraphim(x7):[241]

2x Hand Flamers

Melta Bombs(all)

Brazier of Holy fire

Evisorator

 

 

A bit cheaper then the way i ran the celestians and packs a considerable punch with a lot of flame on something. As I've had great luck using my Cannoness as an assault unit i thought this might be a better way to push my army forward. Still unsure of what to do with that Evisorator tho, thinking about dropping it for a power weapon, but STR3 can make wounding a bit of a chore.

 

More advice and even the harsh criticism is more then welcome :P Thank you thus far guys.

 

Edit: i'm also thinking of trying to squeeze this little number in somehow.

 

Dominion Squad(5): [207]

VSS: Brazier of Holy fire, Combi Melta

2x Melta Guns

2x Flamers

Immolator

[Chengar Qordath]

Eviscerators on Battlesister VSS's are certainly a fine choice if you're getting good use out of them. I haven't, but you play against different opponents, lists, and players than I do so perhaps they're the right choice for you.

 

On your new thoughts, Seraphim with a jump Cannoness (or if you have the points to spare, a Living Saint) are a great choice. They have the mobility to ensure optimum template placement, a free Imagifier to help with DG rolls, and with an added HQ can usually mop up a squad in assault after ripping it apart with shooting. Last time I fielded that particular unit it crushed an SM assault Squad, a Command Squad and Captain, and then tore the heart of a Tac squad before finally dying. That unit will usually end up dead by the end of the game, but will more than earn its points back before passing on.

 

For the Dominions, I'd advise against mixing meltas and flamers. The two weapons don't really have compatible roles, and going for all the same provides much better results. Four Dominions with flamers are devastating to hordes (especially backed by the Immolators twin-linked heavy flamer), while four Dominions with Meltaguns are a near-guaranteed kill against vehicles. Mixing weapons produces a squad that does a mediocre job at both tasks.

[Might Iquisitor Lord Bob]

The Evisorators have served me vary well, however, I do doubt the usefulness of one on Seraphim. The hole striking last seems counter productive on a unit thats charging in guns and flames a blazing. Adding the Saint to this squad would be amazing, but i'ld either have to drop the cannoness or the Grey Knight Grand master, and i'm a bit worried about the potential faith point hit when she eventually does drop.

 

My Friend has has massive amounts of luck with that build of dominion allied to his space marines force. He keeps them inside the Immolator and shoots 2 weapons from the top hatch and moves onto the next target. If he's applying this wrong then yes it vary well might be better to just rock out the full melta gun unit of tank busters. As i think flamers are at least better covered now, or should be by the time this list gets fully revised.

[number6]

Going out of order because ... well its me XD... The Inquisitor and Land Raider. I really like using the Land Raider to transport the knights it keeps them mostly safe and even when you do crack the shell its not like you got anything nicer to play with inside. While your Chimera idea with the twin phycannons IS interesting, it does remove there primary use in my army as a surge assult troop as they will not be able to launch assaults quite as quickly as they had been before. That may however, be a bad thing as i may be trying to play my list a bit too aggressively. I don't mind dropping Timmy... he was only there for the Raider anyhow. Tho i may continue to bring him for a Callidus Assassin, but i also thought of using a demon hunter Inquistor over as an ally as well, giving him a psycannon and attaching him to the greyknights. Just a thought tho.

I figured you chose the LR as the GKT ride. Here are the reasons why I think the Chimera is a better choice for your particular list.

 

A WH list based around Sisters is a shooting army. And it can be a really really good one; shooty sisters are extremely dangerous when mech'd up. The only issue is that the shooting is all short-ranged. On top of that, Sisters, even with Faith, just aren't all that hot in assault. There are very very few matchups where Sisters can get away with assaults as a key part of their offensive strategy. Usually, assaults are just for clean-up of depleted enemy units or as an emergency stopgap to bog down some enemy unit that is too dangerous and getting to you too quickly (this is all that Faith is really capable of doing for you in assaults).

 

GKs/GKTs bring two elements that complement Sisters beautifully. Firstly, they are a solid assault unit. And GKTs remain the game's most fearsome terminators. Secondly, GKs/GKTs with psycannons bring much-needed firepower range.

 

You don't really want or need for GKs in a Sisters list to go out of their way to engage in assaults. You want them to threaten assaults. Just keep them near your sisters to intercept enemy units, to countercharge into a fight that your Sisters got caught up in, or to do the clean-up duty instead of the Sisters after enemy units have been depleted with shooting. GKs can help with that shooting in a way that Sisters can't. And putting GKs in Chimeras only increases the firepower and mobility available to the unit.

 

GKTs are particularly suited to this task because they maintain full psycannon shooting power and assault potential on the move. 5 GKTs with 2 psycannons in a Chimera pump out nine STR 6 shots and six STR 4 shots every turn. The heavy flamer on the hull discourages enemy infantry from approaching too close (as if the GKTs themselves weren't threatening enough). Stick this unit in the midfield near your approaching Sisters, and just tear the enemy apart in both the shooting and assault phases as required.

 

With the points savings from dropping the Inquisitor and his land raider, you can afford the GKT chimera and Rhinos for your Sisters and still have points left over.

 

If you still want an Inquisitor, make good use of him. Take a Malleus Inquisitor, a multi-melta servitor, and two mystics and put them in either a Chimera or Rhino and stick them in the midfield just like you would with your GKTs. Use this as a multi-melta bunker and discourage deep-strikers at the same time. You could probably get both of these units for the price of your =I= + land raider and still yet have a few points left over.

[jeffersonian000]

Number6, 2 psycannons pump out 6 S6 shots, not 9. For 9, you need to attach a BC Hero to an elite dual-psycannon GKT squad.

 

SJ

[number6]

Number6, 2 psycannons pump out 6 S6 shots, not 9. For 9, you need to attach a BC Hero to an elite dual-psycannon GKT squad.

 

SJ

You're forgetting the Chimera's multi-laser. :lol:

[Might Iquisitor Lord Bob]

So after taking all sujestions into consideration i have revised my 1850 list. Thank you for the imput you have provided, it has been vary helpful and has helped me open my mind, even just a little bit. So here is what i've revised my list to thus far, further input and sujestions would be helpful if you see anything else that may improve the overall effectiveness of the list.

 

HQ1:[145]

Cannoness ---> Attached to Seraphim.

Blessed Weapon, Brazier of Holy Fire, Cloak of St. Aspira, Jump Pack, Mantle of Ophelia, Book of St. Lucius

 

HQ2:[404]

Grey Knight Grand Master

Psycannon, Sacred Incence, Stormshield.

Retinue:{4x Grey Knight Terminators} Psycannon.

 

Elite1:[188]

Daemon Hunter Inquistor

Psycannon, Targeter

Retinue: Multi-Melta Servitor, Heavy Bolter Servitor, 2x Mistic, Sage

Transport: Chimera

 

Troops1: [221]

Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Heavy Flamer Melta & Melta Gun

VSS: Brazier of Holy Fire & Combi Melta

Transport: Represser

 

Troops2: [221]

Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Heavy Flamer Melta & Melta Gun

VSS: Brazier of Holy Fire & Combi Melta

Transport: Represser

 

Troops3:[295]

Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon. 2 Infantry Squads(10), 1 Command Squad(5).

Transports 3 Chimeras (Using Command Squad Chimera for Grey Knights)

 

Fast Attack1:[241]

Seraphim(7) w/ 2x Hand Flamers & Melta Bombs

VSS: Brazier of Holy Fire & Eviserator

 

Heavy1:[135]

Exorsict

 

Total: 1850

 

Can't Wait to play test this ;)

[number6]

Much improved. ^_^

 

The major issues is that you look to be short of anti-armour solutions. One multi-melta, two melta guns, and a smattering of S6 shots and a lone Exorcist aren't going to cut it at 1850 pts. Unless I am missing the autocannons, lascannons, and meltas you've put into your IG?

 

I would favor inferno pistols on your Seraphim for exactly this reason. You've got plenty of ways to hose infantry down, either with shooting or assault. But you need more anti-armour power for sure, I think

[Inquisitor Fox]

HQ2:[404]

Grey Knight Grand Master

Psycannon, Sacred Incence, Stormshield.

Retinue:{4x Grey Knight Terminators} Psycannon.

Not trying to be a stickler, but isn't this an illegal equipping? Or rather, it's legal, but you'd lose your Nemesis Force Weapon?

 

The Psycannon is a two handed weapon, the Nemesis Force Weapon is one handed, and the Stormshield is one handed. Grey Knights are bound, by Codex language, to having just two weapons, one of which may be two handed. Ergo, this combination doesn't fly. Especially if you want to keep your Nemisis Force Weapon.

 

Just a thought :sweat:

[jeffersonian000]

Number6, 2 psycannons pump out 6 S6 shots, not 9. For 9, you need to attach a BC Hero to an elite dual-psycannon GKT squad.

 

SJ

You're forgetting the Chimera's multi-laser. :(

 

Yep, I forgot the Multi-Laser.

 

SJ

[ArmouredWing]

So after taking all sujestions into consideration i have revised my 1850 list. Thank you for the imput you have provided, it has been vary helpful and has helped me open my mind, even just a little bit. So here is what i've revised my list to thus far, further input and sujestions would be helpful if you see anything else that may improve the overall effectiveness of the list.

 

HQ1:[145]

Cannoness ---> Attached to Seraphim.

Blessed Weapon, Brazier of Holy Fire, Cloak of St. Aspira, Jump Pack, Mantle of Ophelia, Book of St. Lucius

 

Troops1: [221]

Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Heavy Flamer Melta & Melta Gun

VSS: Brazier of Holy Fire & Combi Melta

Transport: Represser

 

Troops2: [221]

Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Heavy Flamer Melta & Melta Gun

VSS: Brazier of Holy Fire & Combi Melta

Transport: Represser

 

Fast Attack1:[241]

Seraphim(7) w/ 2x Hand Flamers & Melta Bombs

VSS: Brazier of Holy Fire & Eviserator

 

Heavy1:[135]

Exorsict

 

Total: 1850

I'm going to chip in here on the Sisters stuff as, well, I know more about them than GK's.

 

Firstly, your canoness needs some tweaking. If you're going to run her with the Seraphim then I'd have to advise dropping the brazier and looking at getting some points for an inferno pistol. The thing to remember with the canoness is that she's got an excellent BS but it's wasted if you've got no ballistic weapons. The brazier is ok where you want some extra 1 shot templates but I'd have to say that it's not a good place to put it on a canoness. For 5 pts more you get the inferno pistol which can be used repeatedly, can cut through armour and also instant kill T4. For me the choice between the brazier and IP is a no brainer. It also gives you an additional anti armour weapon which can be brought to bear. I'd also be tempted to give her frags & meltabombs to turn her into a truly effective all rounder (anti armour/anti character).

 

The battle sister squads lack the single essential piece of wargear available. Book of St Lucius. They really shouldn't leave home without them as the unmodified Ld is invaluable. In regards to their special weapon loadout I used to think the best way to field battle sister squads was as all rounders, but I've found over the last couple of years that they really excel when they are specialised, either running 2 meltaguns or flamer & hvy flamer as the squad loadouts.

Your vets don't look too bad on first appearances they've got a good all round loadout which can be brought to bear on most opponents. However, the squads are vulnerable to the likes of dreadnoughts etc and you'll have to work to keep them out of reach of those types of units otherwise they'll lock you in close combat and whittle them away untill there's nothing left. Kraks are an option but will only give you protection from standard dreads, the likes of ironclads will remain unscathed.

The other thing is that your transports will need smoke launchers at the very least to give them a chance of surviving through the first turn.

 

The Seraphim need some attention. Hand flamers are ok but twin linked inferno pistols make them a fearsome proposition to deal with enemy armour. Also drop the meltabombs, they're expensive and are quite literally hit and miss. Use the points elsewhere.

 

The main thing I would say is don't look to euqip your squads as jacks of all trades, it's true when they say that they're master of none and as such you'll find that they will underperform when going after different types of target. Maximise your types of firing, either templates against infantry or meltaguns against armour, that way you'll stand a better chance of having your units acheive the results you're looking for.

 

Oh yeah, last thing, try and double up on your exorcist. If you have 2 or more you sstand a better chance of evening out any bad rolling that may occur. In the event that both roll good then they'll obliterate whatever you target.

[Might Iquisitor Lord Bob]

Thank you for all your input thus far, even on the revised list. I'll cut to the chase and try to make my postings a bit shorter as they've been rather long. Here are my thoughts on the sujestions thus far provided:

 

Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen said:

Not trying to be a stickler, but isn't this an illegal equipping? Or rather, it's legal, but you'd lose your Nemesis Force Weapon?

 

The Psycannon is a two handed weapon, the Nemesis Force Weapon is one handed, and the Storm Shield is one handed. Grey Knights are bound, by Codex language, to having just two weapons, one of which may be two handed. Ergo, this combination doesn't fly. Especially if you want to keep your Nemisis Force Weapon.

 

Just a thought

 

Spot on, working back and forth between the 5th edition codices and 4th, i forgot that nuance of the wargear outfitting. Was trying to get him a 4+ inv save as it would be much better when he does wind up in close combat. I'll either have to drop it or scrape xx points from somewhere to get him an "Icon of the Just".

 

ArmouredWing, i'm not discrediting anything you said here, as alot of it makes scence. However, i'm not going to change the seraphim/cannoness out-load JUST yet. The tactics i have in mind for her are mostly for crowd control so the excess flamer templates are there for that. I included the melta bombs for vehicle hunting, while not quite as reliable as the Inferno pistol on raw accuracy, there is 7 girls with bombs, even on a dread STATISTICALLY one should hit. The inferno pistol and frag on the cannoness does warrant some serious consideration however she is at her war gear point cap. so some shifting of stuff would be required.

 

With loosing the Storm Shield on the Grey Knight Grand Master the sisters will get there books back. It was one of the last things i cut as this list has gotten fairly trimmed down So doing that is going to involve no small amount of difficulty. With my Seraphim being outloaded heavly with flame templets shifting the girls to dual meltas and dedicating them to the objective of tank hunting is an idea, but i'm currently unsure of how well that will work with the tactics i have planned. I'm going to need some more play testing and tactical revision before going ahead and making that change. As for dealing with dreads, well they're in transports and should never have to directly deal with them. I used to have evisorators in each squad for just such an eventuality, however they ended up getting cut because points became so tight. This does cause me to want to steer a bit more to the dual melta out-load some. Once again something i'm simply going to have to playtest as tactics often change the applicability of various war gear.

 

As for smoke launchers if you looked at the pointing you'll notice i used IA2 updated rules, witch gives sisters of battle cost reduced rhino's repressiors, chimira and updated land raider profiles all with searchlight and smoke launchers standard equipment. Believe me if they weren't i would of found the points somewhere to get the launchers on them.

 

If i can somehow chop another 135 points out of this list threw more tertiary review and playtesting you bet your holy bolter there will be another exorsist in there. Believe me i want it in there, just gotta get it there somehow.

[ArmouredWing]

Thank you for all your input thus far, even on the revised list. I'll cut to the chase and try to make my postings a bit shorter as they've been rather long. Here are my thoughts on the sujestions thus far provided:

 

ArmouredWing, i'm not discrediting anything you said here, as alot of it makes scence. However, i'm not going to change the seraphim/cannoness out-load JUST yet. The tactics i have in mind for her are mostly for crowd control so the excess flamer templates are there for that. I included the melta bombs for vehicle hunting, while not quite as reliable as the Inferno pistol on raw accuracy, there is 7 girls with bombs, even on a dread STATISTICALLY one should hit. The inferno pistol and frag on the cannoness does warrant some serious consideration however she is at her war gear point cap. so some shifting of stuff would be required.

 

As for smoke launchers if you looked at the pointing you'll notice i used IA2 updated rules, witch gives sisters of battle cost reduced rhino's repressiors, chimira and updated land raider profiles all with searchlight and smoke launchers standard equipment. Believe me if they weren't i would of found the points somewhere to get the launchers on them.

 

If i can somehow chop another 135 points out of this list threw more tertiary review and playtesting you bet your holy bolter there will be another exorsist in there. Believe me i want it in there, just gotta get it there somehow.

No probs at all Bob. My bad on the IA stuff, I'm too used to playing codex and rarely use IA stuff in my lists now.

 

Just a couple of things to think about though. I've always been a massive fan of Seraphim and used to regularly play lists with 3 full squads using them for anti armour duties rather than exorcists. Over the years I've developed a system where I look at the average cost of each sister in a unit with a view to understand how many points I'm looking at losing each time I fail a save in a squad and with this in mind adding meltabombs to an already expensive and reasonably fragile squad means that you'll lose your points quicker. Seraphim are great but they die as easily as any other sister and due to their fearsome reputation they will draw the lions share of the fire making them take more wounds and forcing more saves. If nothing else you need to consider dropping the meltabombs and using the points somewhere else. They come with Kraks as standard which will be effective against anything other than AV13 or better, so we're talking ironclads, LR's and that type of thing. Now, this is where it gets a little more complex, where in a normal sisters squad you need to be concerned about getting locked into CC with dreads with no 'get out of jail' card (kraks, meltabombs, eviscerator) Seraphim don't have the same problem because of their hit & run rule. Yes, they'll probably have a couple mashed but they can jump back out in the opposing players turn giving them the opportunity to either get away or fire back into the target. Additionally when you buy meltabombs you equip the whole squad but you've already got the vet geared up with an eviscerator meaning that you're also wasting the cost of a further meltabomb on the vet who has a better option when fighting/attacking vehicles in CC.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say again is that you're trying to make this squad capable of dealing with all eventualities but by their nature they should be equipped as a specialist unit. Weighing them down with lots of wargear for different functions does not make them more effective, just more expensive and costly when they die. If I was to field them as crowd control then I'd drop the meltabombs and maybe even the eviscerator. If you really feel the need to stick some CC anti armour then go for one or the other but remember, if you're firing at infantry then you'll not be able to attack the armour and vice versa.

 

Good luck with it.