Newbie Question - True Grit and Charging

[seydlitz]

Really new to DH... Could someone explain the True Grit special rule? Also, and perhaps related, I was told that GK's do not get an extra attack for charging... is this true?

 

Thanks in advance

[JamesI]

Welcome to the B+C!

 

With true grit, grey knights in power armor have the +1 attack for 2 weapons at all times. But, they don't get the bonus attack for charging, its a trade off to be able to count your stormbolter as a close combat weapon.

[number6]

Technically, JamesI, it's the other way around. PAGKs can't take advantage of True Grit when they charge. (The fluff portion of the rule states that the stormbolter is too unwieldy.) However, they are still allowed to take the +1 Attack bonus normally granted to all charging models.

 

The end result is that PAGKs nearly always have 2 attacks (Justicars nearly always have 3 attacks) regardless of whether they charge or are charged.

 

The only time this won't be true is if your PAGK unit charges a unit that has defensive grenades, denying the PAGKs their +1 attack bonus. In these (rare) cases, the PAGKs only have 1 attack each (the Justicar would have 2 attacks). But in subsequent rounds of close combat, True Grit would take over.

[Archon_77]

Technically, JamesI, it's the other way around. PAGKs can't take advantage of True Grit when they charge. (The fluff portion of the rule states that the stormbolter is too unwieldy.) However, they are still allowed to take the +1 Attack bonus normally granted to all charging models.

 

The end result is that PAGKs nearly always have 2 attacks (Justicars nearly always have 3 attacks) regardless of whether they charge or are charged.

 

The only time this won't be true is if your PAGK unit charges a unit that has defensive grenades, denying the PAGKs their +1 attack bonus. In these (rare) cases, the PAGKs only have 1 attack each (the Justicar would have 2 attacks). But in subsequent rounds of close combat, True Grit would take over.

 

 

This actually came up for me yesterday in my first ever "for reals" game with my Termies. We interpreted it to mean that my terms got 3 attacks in CC, and my GM got 4. . . were we reading it correctly?

 

Even won and everything :D, but I hope I got it right....

[number6]

This actually came up for me yesterday in my first ever "for reals" game with my Termies. We interpreted it to mean that my terms got 3 attacks in CC, and my GM got 4. . . were we reading it correctly?

 

Even won and everything :(, but I hope I got it right....

GK Terminators aren't wearing power armour -- they're wearing Tactical Dreadnought "Terminator" Armour -- so they don't get to benefit from True Grit. Thus, GKTs follow all the normal rules for infantry and close combat. Your GM has 4 attacks base, your BC has 3 attacks base, and GKTs have 2 attacks base. Add one to those numbers when you charge and only when you charge.

[Tom James]

Technically, JamesI, it's the other way around. PAGKs can't take advantage of True Grit when they charge. (The fluff portion of the rule states that the stormbolter is too unwieldy.) However, they are still allowed to take the +1 Attack bonus normally granted to all charging models.

 

The end result is that PAGKs nearly always have 2 attacks (Justicars nearly always have 3 attacks) regardless of whether they charge or are charged.

 

The only time this won't be true is if your PAGK unit charges a unit that has defensive grenades, denying the PAGKs their +1 attack bonus. In these (rare) cases, the PAGKs only have 1 attack each (the Justicar would have 2 attacks). But in subsequent rounds of close combat, True Grit would take over.

 

This is for close combat only right? For ranged combat I've been interpreting the rules as rolling 4 dice for the Justicar (2 attacks with an assault 2 weapon) and 2 dice for each of the regular GK (1 attack with an assault 2 weapon).

 

Is that right?

 

I need to start actually playing instead of just painting things. Haven't played a game since 2nd ed.

[SamaNagol]

Whaaaaat? Since when has the number of close combat attacks had any relevance to the number of shots you fire with a ranged weapon?

 

<DELETED BY THE INQUISTION>

[number6]

This is for close combat only right? For ranged combat I've been interpreting the rules as rolling 4 dice for the Justicar (2 attacks with an assault 2 weapon) and 2 dice for each of the regular GK (1 attack with an assault 2 weapon).

 

Is that right?

 

I need to start actually playing instead of just painting things. Haven't played a game since 2nd ed.

Shooting is indeed a totally different thing. Every ranged weapon has its own profile, and you follow that for when you wish to shoot no matter who is carrying that weapon. The number of attacks on a model's profile are for close combat attacks only.

[SamaNagol]

lol all I said was buy the rule book and read it. Even going back to Rogue Trader the attack profile never had any bearing on shooting.

[Tom James]

Shooting is indeed a totally different thing. Every ranged weapon has its own profile, and you follow that for when you wish to shoot no matter who is carrying that weapon. The number of attacks on a model's profile are for close combat attacks only.

 

Thanks a bunch for that clarification! Like I said, haven't played in a long, long time. I've only made a preliminary reading of the main rulebook, because I wanted to have the army fully painted before I start playing much.

[Brother Swas]

Still, reading the rule book is the way to make a good army. How can you decide what units you want when you don't know what they do? I'd suggest reading cover-to-cover before writing an army list, personally, but many people make do with a single reading of the most important chapters (Moving, Shooting, Assault, Vehicles).

[Archon_77]

This actually came up for me yesterday in my first ever "for reals" game with my Termies. We interpreted it to mean that my terms got 3 attacks in CC, and my GM got 4. . . were we reading it correctly?

 

Even won and everything :D, but I hope I got it right....

GK Terminators aren't wearing power armour -- they're wearing Tactical Dreadnought "Terminator" Armour -- so they don't get to benefit from True Grit. Thus, GKTs follow all the normal rules for infantry and close combat. Your GM has 4 attacks base, your BC has 3 attacks base, and GKTs have 2 attacks base. Add one to those numbers when you charge and only when you charge.

 

 

Ah.... thank you number6. I thought things might be amiss when that unit took care of three ork trukks and about 30 boyz + nobs.

[number6]

Ah.... thank you number6. I thought things might be amiss when that unit took care of three ork trukks and about 30 boyz + nobs.

Oh, that kind of performance is not unreasonable. Ork Trukks are the flimsiest vehicles in existence. And if you can get the charge in on Orks -- especially mobbed up Orks benefitting from Fearless -- then GKTs can really REALLY clean house. They'll inflict a ton more wounds on the Orks and then the poor li'l greenskins will have to take a crap-ton more for losing the combat. 5 GKTs can -- with only a little bit of luck -- entirely wipe out 20-30 Boyz in one go. Nobs are only a little more difficult than that to remove.

[Archon_77]

Ah.... thank you number6. I thought things might be amiss when that unit took care of three ork trukks and about 30 boyz + nobs.

Oh, that kind of performance is not unreasonable. Ork Trukks are the flimsiest vehicles in existence. And if you can get the charge in on Orks -- especially mobbed up Orks benefitting from Fearless -- then GKTs can really REALLY clean house. They'll inflict a ton more wounds on the Orks and then the poor li'l greenskins will have to take a crap-ton more for losing the combat. 5 GKTs can -- with only a little bit of luck -- entirely wipe out 20-30 Boyz in one go. Nobs are only a little more difficult than that to remove.

 

 

And here I thought I was just lucky :P. Great game though, and a good example of why pure GK is more viable than people think. The key to the game was simply that my oppenent KNEW I was playing GK and thus massively underestimated me, relying upon his "better" (re: More up to date) Ork units to be able to crush me with no thought given to movement and tactics.

[Bucky]

Also remember that true grit only works with storm bolters. So a GK with a incinerator does get +1 attack on the charge and is only at 1 attack when he is charged.