need help choosing chaos squad sizes

[chosonofchaos]

i am in the process of creating my army list and am wondering how big my squad sizes should be

 

i have 35 chaos marines and 2 options

 

1: 2 squads of 10 marines with heavy bolter, plasma gun,aspiring champion and chaos icon

1 squad of 10 marines with flamer, melta gun, aspiring champion and slaanesh icon

5 man squad combined with 5 possesed

 

 

2: 2 squads of 8 marines with melta gun, plasma gun, aspiring champion and chaos icon

1 squad of 8 marines with 2 heavy bolters and aspiring champion

1 squad of 10 marines with flamer, melta, aspiring champion and slaanesh icon

 

can someone help me decide which one to use or come up with anothe one.

 

thanks :)

[Brother Nihm]

1: 2 squads of 10 marines with heavy bolter, plasma gun,aspiring champion and chaos icon

Heavy bolters and plasma don't synergize that well (it could be worse though!), most importantly it makes the squad stationary to benefit the most from said weapons, something you may want to avoid in 5th ed. as it's almost all about mobility now.

 

1 squad of 10 marines with flamer, melta gun, aspiring champion and slaanesh icon

Champions are best of using powerfists, the IoS is wasted on such a fellow. Also, while I understand the flamer/melta viewpoint I usually go with dual melta or dual flamers.

 

5 man squad combined with 5 possesed

Drop these and get fists and rhinos for your CSM instead.

 

 

2: 2 squads of 8 marines with melta gun, plasma gun, aspiring champion and chaos icon

That squad is illegal as you need 10 models to purchase a second special weapon.

 

1 squad of 8 marines with 2 heavy bolters and aspiring champion

As above.

 

1 squad of 10 marines with flamer, melta, aspiring champion and slaanesh icon

See my comments on your first option.

 

Personally speaking, a general rule of thumb is if your squad will see CC: make it 10 man strong, add a p-fist champ and an icon of whatever-fits-your-army/fluff-best and put two melta guns in there and last but not least, mount them in/or have them run behind: a Rhino.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[IronWinds]

Go one ebay, it is rather easy to find chaos special weapons, get some more meltas and flamers.

 

I would say three squads.

 

10man, champ w/ Power weapon or fist, an Icon, 2 special weapons*

10man, champ w/ Power weapon or fist, an Icon, 2 special weapons*

10man, champ w/ Power weapon or fist, an Icon, 2 special weapons*

 

*either 2 of the same, or the melta/flamer combo.

 

And buy some rhinos.

 

On the special weapons I prefer all meltas, or all flamers, but my rhino squads work in teams of two where one has meltas and the other flamers. So I always have a tank busting squad nearby. For my army that works better. If you aren't going to be running them in teams they are better off with either dual plasma, or melta/flamer combo.

[chillin]

What Iron winds said.

Neither of your options were very good.

[travh20]

I never give my CSM squads heavy weapons, that is not what they are built for. Either give them flamers or melta guns. Oh, and of course Rhinos.

[Paulochromis]

If vehicles are in short supply, then an objective-sitting squad of 15 CSM with appropriate icon (Tzeentch, or maybe Nurgle) is worth considering.

If vehicles abound, then 5-man squads of rhino-mounted infiltrating dual-melta+dual-flamer Chosen are nice.

 

Cheers, Paul.

[CavPathfinder]

Go big - 10 man squads, 5 dudes can get blown of the table by one large blast template.

Be fast - add some rhinos, drop the heavy bolters.

what do you want from your Asp Champ? if it's just for the extra attack, is 15 pts worth that? take him only if you need the crushing power of the Power Fist, or the Armor Penetration of Melta Bombs.

Icons - do you have terminators or daemons deep striking? if not Chaos Space Marines have some of the best base line stats.

who are you going to be fighting? hordes = flamers, armor = meltas

[chosonofchaos]

i have come up with a new option

 

1 squad of 10 with aspiring champion(power fist and plasma pistol), 1 flamer, 1 melta gun and icon of slaanesh(for extra initiative when in close combat), the rest will have bolt pistols and chain swords, all mounted in a land raider

 

2 squads of 10 with aspiring champion(power weapon and plasma pistol), 1 plasma gun, 1 melta gun and icon of chaos

 

1 squad of 5 choson with aspiring champion(power weapon and plasma pistol), 2 plasma guns, 2 heavy bolters and icon of nurgle(this squad is used to infiltrate and hold a position with heavy weapons and teleport my terminator squad and lord behind enemy lines)

 

please tell me if this one is any better than my original

 

thanks :P

[chillin]

The squads of 10 are better. But....

Lose all the plaz pistols, worst spec weop in game.

If you are going to pay for IoS, I would give that champ a PW to take advantage of Int.

The squads w/ IoCG shoud both have PF champs. Never mix plas and melta gun, one is for double tap, the other for fire and assault. 2 plaz in one squad, 2 melta in the other.

The chosen squad is no good. IoN is too expensive, especially on a squad that small, you are paying 8 pts per guy for +1 T.

5 is too small, esp for infiltartors, they will be alive the turn they come on board and then dead in your opponents turn and your out 225 pts for 1 turn of 2 plaz and 3 pistols firing.

Forget about 5 man squads, they are too small to do anything and die too easy. You have 3 solid squads now, get rinos for them next.

just save the 5 left over csm's for when you get more csm's and can make a proper squad of 10.

[IronWinds]

Everything chillin said.

 

Don't mix plasma with any other special weapon. You can't assault after firing a plasma rifle, you can after a melta or flamer so meltas and flamers can work great together but not so great with plasma.

 

I wouldn't give champions plasma pistols. They can kill your champion, and he is the last guy in a squad you want dead. They are also 15pts, and you normally only get to fire them once or twice, and they don't double tap. For 5 less pts you can have a combi-melta. +1str, ap1, 2d6 vs tanks.... and 5pts cheaper, what is not to like? And against horde enemies you still have a bolter. You would likely only fire that plasma pistol once per game, just like the combi melta, but the combi melta packs a lot more punch, is cheaper, and won't kill your champion. And under the 4th edition codex taking a combi melta does not decrease your champions attacks :tu: .

 

1 squad of 5 choson with aspiring champion(power weapon and plasma pistol), 2 plasma guns, 2 heavy bolters and icon of nurgle(this squad is used to infiltrate and hold a position with heavy weapons and teleport my terminator squad and lord behind enemy lines)

 

Ok this needs special attentions. They are averaging 48pts per model, for that you can have a terminator with a combi plasma and a lightning claw and have pts left over. You could have 2 termicide squads 'each' packing nearly as much firepower as this squad and it would be cheaper.

 

My termicide set up

3 terminators, 2 PWs, 2 combi meltas or plasma, 1 heavy flamer, 1 chainfist 120pts X2= 240pts. Ok so its the same cost. More models, more firepower, better saves, better in hth, DSing.... same cost.

 

 

Save those 5 guys for the next squad you buy, they really don't have a place in your army right now... unless you go with a little annoying squad I have considered fielding. 5 chosen, missile/autocannon/or lascannon... nothing else, no champion, no PWs, no special weapons, just the tank busting gun. Infiltrate into terrain and to get shot at side armor. Not a very powerful unit, but quite annoying and will draw fire away from the rest of your army for the first turn :D . That is the only thing I would use the 5 marines for.

[chillin]

unless you go with a little annoying squad I have considered fielding. 5 chosen, missile/autocannon/or lascannon... nothing else, no champion, no PWs, no special weapons, just the tank busting gun. Infiltrate into terrain and to get shot at side armor. Not a very powerful unit, but quite annoying and will draw fire away from the rest of your army for the first turn :rolleyes: .

 

I actually tried this several times when this dex 1st came out (left over build from C:csm 3.5), with varying results. They did annoy the opponent, and pull some fire and/or resources off other units. Sometime they would even damage a vehicle. But to tell the truth an oblit is just as good if not better and less expensive. And as far as actually damaging/destroying a vehicle, termicide is much better and cost @ the same (the chosen's only advantage is that they can fire 1st turn).

[Important]

A chosen squad with Pfist, 4 flamers are really fun but can be a bit risky outflanking. When I do use them I usualy hang back at objectives. If it's kill points I put them in outflank reserve to keep them alive longer. And sometimes they actualy do something.

[chosonofchaos]

thanks for the feed back, its very helpful so i have come up with a new option

 

1 squad of 10 with aspiring champion(power weapon and bolt pistol), 1 flamer, 1 melta gun and icon of slaanesh, the rest will have bolt pistols and chain swords, all mounted in a land raider

 

2 squads of 10 with aspiring champion(power fist and bolt pistol), 1 plasma gun, 1 melta gun and icon of chaos

(whats wrong with plasma guns, you cant assault after firing bolters just like plasma guns so they will stay for now)

 

1 squad of 5 choson 2 plasma guns, 1 heavy bolter, 1 rocket launcher and icon of nurgle

(this squad is used to infiltrate and hold a position with heavy weapons and teleport my terminator squad and lord behind enemy lines and i know this squad seems like a waste of points but when playing a capture and control mission they could come in handy, its only 200 pts)

 

please tell me if this one is any better

[chillin]

It has the exact same mistakes as the other one, why would it be any better ?

The mistakes that Travh, Pathfinder, IronWinds, Nihm, and I have all pointed out to you:

melta and plaz in same squad.(if you can get the assault in you fire bp's not bolters, if you want plaz, that's fire, take 2 of them and make it a rapidfire squad)

A 5 man squad that cost 205 pts that can fire 2 plaz and 3 bp's once, and then be dead. (how are they gonna come in handy or hold a possition when your opponent can easily kill them w/ 1 round of shooting or assault from 1 squad ? Why would you want to teleport your lord in behind enemy lines, he can't assault and he will get shot down ?? So now you start turn 3, minus and 205 pt chosen squad, your termi's and your lord. If you have a LR why would you not put your lord in it, pretty much assuring he gets the charge in ?

But you seem pretty stuck in what you think would work, so good luck with it, but I think after playing a few games you will see that what we said was correct :D

[chosonofchaos]

It seems that i havnt got very far with choosing my squads after all the feedback

 

can some one answer some questions so i can finaly make up my mind

 

1-should there be any plasma weapons

2-should i use any heavy weapons

3-what banners should i usae

4-what weapons for myaspiring champions

 

by the way when chaos space maries attack in close combat do they attack with bolt pistols and chainswoird or bolter, if so do they receive an extra attack for having 2 weapons

 

thanks for all the help

[Zeller]

1. Plasmas are a weapon of personal choice. I have plasma pistols on all my aspiring champions but they only have a chainsword so they aren't that expensive if they die. I only fire the plasma pistol if the occasion calls for it. Never willy nilly. If you want plasmas pack a squad of havocs with them to help your main guys kill MC assuming you have no meltas in the troop squads.

2. No heavy weapons in troop units. They need to be able to move and shoot all of their weapons at all times.

3. What banner do you want? Quite frankly, not taking an IoS simply because your AC has a PF is dumb. The PF is I1 regardless and it might help the rest of your squad do some serious damage before the PF strikes.

4. Again, a matter of preference. I chose plasma pistol and chainsword because it was what the AC had on the previous rendition of the CSM squad box art. I thought it looked badass and I'm fine with that. Do you want the squad to have the ability to instakill MEQ if need be, to chip away at MC if need be, and to destroy vehicles in assault on a 3+? Then go with the PF. Again, ask yourself what is your fluff, what are your marines likely to fight with in the fluff, and arm the accordingly. The PF is just a nice insurance weapon if you will. If I had enough to go around I would more than likely replace my chainsword with them.

 

***Yes, Chaos marines have 2 attacks base because of the CCW and BP so if you charge each marine gets 3 attacks.

[IronWinds]

1. Plasma is fine. Just don't mix it with meltaguns and flamers because you can't assault after firing plasma.

2. Use to be a good idea. Now that you have to have 10 guys to buy a heavy weapon it is overrated. I would stick just to special weapons.

3. I stick to MoCG, but that is me. IoN is really expensive, so you are normally better just taking plague marines, and it really is a waste of points on a 5 man squad. Pretty much all of the marks are a waste on a 5 man squad. A 5 man squad is just far to easy to kill to bother investing any points in it.

4. I would go with a PW & meltabombs, or a Power fist. If you absolutely want some firepower take a combi weapon.

 

by the way when chaos space maries attack in close combat do they attack with bolt pistols and chainswoird or bolter, if so do they receive an extra attack for having 2 weapons

 

Yup, even if you model them with a bolter or combi bolter.