14th Black Crusade

[Debauchery101]

i want to see the blood angels or space wolves turn to chaos in the next "galactic threat to humanity" and kill off a super hero like marneus or somthing.

 

or at least please dont let the outcome of the campaign be determined by extra 15000 8-13 yr olds that all play space marine armies that dont even fill out the 1 hq 2 troops requirements.

[Primarch Naogedd]

Yes, but it's probably going to be another victory for Papa SMurf and his SuperFriends. Just like it is in every universe like this. I wish things would.... you know.. .. actually change.

 

It would be awesome if the 14th Black Crusade took Cadia, forcing the Imperium to pull their forces back to defend Terra and leave the Galactic South to Hive Fleet Leviathan. That would be a good shake-up of the universe, and allow the Necrons to gain a foothold and possibly continue their Warding.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

The Imperium's on the brink as it is. Push them back to Terra and for all intents and purposes, they're done. There's nothing stopping any other faction from moving it's agenda forward except the timeline (that is, it being permanently on 999.M41. Which I like).

 

hi,

 

Abbadon doesn't die cause he wil always chicken out before he is to be killed.

 

 

Abbadon keeps screwing his own people over, he can't even get allies if he keeps backstabbing them.

 

proof that he won't get any support anymore.

well that the prize for saying horus is weak and fool.

coz he is mega-moron.

no 14th black crusade for abaddon.

leave it for a warsmith, a dark apostle, or a talon master to lead the crusade.

 

cheers,

:D

 

Random quotes on the Internet = Proof that Abbaddon is a failure.

 

Sure. :rolleyes:

 

If you ask me Abaddon is just a big failure. He should just let the Primarchs lead the assaults on Imperial Territory.

 

Let them? I'm sure if they showed any interest... other than Angron, but he's banished at the moment. Looks like the Primarchs don't really mind being upstaged by a 1st Co. Captain.

 

Replace Abbadon with any other commander and you have the same results.

 

Or worse.

 

i want to see the blood angels or space wolves turn to chaos

 

I wouldn't considering those two Chapters are two of the more Chaos-resistant Chapters. Curse of the Wulfen and Horus killing Sanguinius, all that.

[Debauchery101]

well maybe they wouldnt go to chaos but i could definately see them as renegades. the blood angels are supposedly gettin worse with thier thirst and the space wolves are about as far from the astartes as you can get

[Lord Kallozar]

the blood angels are supposedly gettin worse with thier thirst

 

Really? where does it state that?

[wizard12]

remembering in the 13th black crusade the imperium almost fell to tanech (spelling) when the daemon price gargaloth (spelling again) came and we were were incredibly strached force wise. I dought we could withstand another crusade. But hey! easy come easy go.

[Amit]

i want to see the blood angels or space wolves turn to chaos in the next "galactic threat to humanity" and kill off a super hero like marneus or somthing.

 

or at least please dont let the outcome of the campaign be determined by extra 15000 8-13 yr olds that all play space marine armies that dont even fill out the 1 hq 2 troops requirements.

 

I would like to see the following for a 14th Black Crusade...

 

Instead of a sledgehammer approach that Abbadon has been using for the previous ones - he uses a bit of guile and subterfuge;

 

1) Uses the types of Huron and other New-Generation Chaos WarLords to instigate skirmishes and battles - wrong footing the Imperium

2) Assasinate Marneus Calgar - thus creating a power vacuum (Sicarius Vs. Agammemnon) in the UM heirarchy - creating civil war in the entire Ultima Segmentum

3) Use this distraction to destroy the Cadian Pylons - thus expanding the EoT ... Cadia does not fall but is in dire straits; and the proximity of the Immaterium closer to Terra means that the Void Dragon on Mars awakens!

4) GW progress the timeline a bit ... Astronomicon failing

... Tyranids encroaching even further into the Imperium

... Orks expanding

... Tau expanding

[incinerator950]

that probably won't happen, not only that, but you would seal the Eye of Terror's one stable route, forever screwing us over.

[Gree]

1) Uses the types of Huron and other New-Generation Chaos WarLords to instigate skirmishes and battles - wrong footing the Imperium

 

why would the Imperium notice in an Empire of a million worlds? In the bid scheme of things Huron is a pinprick that is easily take care of. Plus why would Huron even work with Abaddon? H

 

2) Assasinate Marneus Calgar - thus creating a power vacuum (Sicarius Vs. Agammemnon) in the UM heirarchy - creating civil war in the entire Ultima Segmentum

 

Civil War in the entire segmentum? I think you are vastly overestimating the amount of influance that th eUltramriens have in the Imperium, Guardsmen will not start killing each other just because Calgar died.

 

 

3) Use this distraction to destroy the Cadian Pylons - thus expanding the EoT ... Cadia does not fall but is in dire straits; and the proximity of the Immaterium closer to Terra means that the Void Dragon on Mars awakens!

 

Congratulations, you have now trapped us all in the Eye of Terror, prepare to be tunred into a Spawn.

[dex_911]

I believe we have already dedicated a thread a few months back regarding Abaddon being a failure or not. If I recall correctly, the general consensus was that Abby is a damn fine leader and had objectives in each of the black crusades which he did achieve! So he is by far a 'loser'. He is the best option Chaos has at destroying the Imperium because the primachs seem to be doing their own thing trying to kill each other or prove themselves strongest with internal feuds.. Therefore you can see that Chaos joining forces is no walk in the park, and yet Abaddon has the ability to forge these relationships to get things done!

 

Abaddon is one tough bad ass, while every other individual (primachs included!) succumbed to the will of chaos, Abaddon tells it where it can shove it, because he isnt ready. He is doing everything and more the daemon primachs should be doing!

 

Hail the mighty Despoiler!

[Darth Ghandi]

14th black crusade? Is there any need for such a thing?

 

Wasn't the 13th crusade vastly successful that chaos won? Andn now everything is going balls up for the imperium?

 

I have been out of the hobby for a good while but that is what it looked like back after the EoT canpaigning.

[Draeden]

Darth, the Carrion-Lord still resides on the golden throne... I'm pretty sure that means Chaos aint gonna stop yet.

 

But yeah, I think that in the 14th Crusade, the main focus will probably be with the Necrons. Cadia is like the last world around the Cadian Gate still in Imperial Control with the rest already succumbed to Chaos? The Necrons and their Pylons are the only real threat to the Eye of Terror currently.

 

Which makes me think of what the Eldar are going to do....

 

Seal the Eye of Terror, thus weakening Chaos and the Warps effect on the Materium and allow them to stand a chance of taking back their old home worlds vs Having Warp Crazy Stuff Galore to fight the Nightbringer, Deciever, Outsider, and Void Dragon?

 

Edit: I could be completely wrong mind you, I'm still rather uninformed I think of the current situation.

[Snakes]

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/sonofwaranddeath/motivator7b47faec9098d40c625799465e.jpg

 

 

Honestly its time for a new leader.... ^_^

[Gree]

Again, someone has failed to realize that if you replace Abaddon you get the EXACT SAME RESULTS!

[Lynnean]

i want to see the blood angels or space wolves turn to chaos

 

I wouldn't considering those two Chapters are two of the more Chaos-resistant Chapters. Curse of the Wulfen and Horus killing Sanguinius, all that.

there's no confirmed fall of a Blood Angel to chaos. beat that, grey knights! you had ONE fallen marine to chaos, we DON'T! ;)

 

wolves: 13th company? there activated their curse, by chaos power IIRC

[DeathTyrant]

I have to echo the sentiment that BA are not falling to Chaos any time soon... I mean they are driven to mad purely by the imprinted psychic memories of their beloved Primarch Sanguinius being killed by the traitor Horus.

 

The Death Company are marines that have succumbed almost entirely for the visions and mania that lead them to feel that they are in Sanguinius own body fighting Horus with his raw Chaos Power.

[Amit]

there's no confirmed fall of a Blood Angel to chaos. beat that, grey knights! you had ONE fallen marine to chaos, we DON'T! :)

 

Grey Knight fallen to chaos ... whom? when? where?

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

the space wolves are about as far from the astartes as you can get

 

From the Codex, perhaps. But this does not make them prone to disloyalty- indeed, looking at their history, they are one of the most admired Chapters in the Imperium.

 

there's no confirmed fall of a Blood Angel to chaos. beat that, grey knights! you had ONE fallen marine to chaos, we DON'T! :(

 

What Grey Knight, where? It's canonically stated that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos.

 

It's also stated that they are the only Chapter that can claim that.

 

Ergo, some Blood Angels must have fallen to Chaos over the ten thousand years since the Heresy.

 

If you will not take that logic, I give you Arkio. Argument over.

 

wolves: 13th company? there activated their curse, by chaos power IIRC

 

No. They've spent ten thousand years in the Warp and still fight for Russ and the Allfather. The Curse of the Wulfen acts as a defense against Chaos.

[Snakes]

Again, someone has failed to realize that if you replace Abaddon you get the EXACT SAME RESULTS!

 

 

What?!?! BAHAHAHA! How do you know if he's never been replaced!?

[Gree]

Again, someone has failed to realize that if you replace Abaddon you get the EXACT SAME RESULTS!

 

 

What?!?! BAHAHAHA! How do you know if he's never been replaced!?

 

From simple study of the strategic situation, did you not read my posts at all?

 

I will point out that’s it’s not his fault, here’s why.

 

People seem to be under the misconception that a single black Crusade, properly managed under some chaos super-warlord, can destroy the entire Imperium in a single blow, and that Abaddon is incompetent for doing so.

 

This is simply untrue. Let’s look at the facts here.

 

1.Cadia is the second most heavily fortified plant in the Imperium along with one of the most heavily fortified sectors of the Imperium. It is populated by some of the most badass guardsmen in the Imperium.

 

In addition to that the battlefleet blocking the Eye of Terror is guarded by over twenty marine chapters and the most veteran battlefleet the Imperium can muster.

 

These are just the normal defenses. When the Black Crusade hits, the Imperium will be sending as much as they possibly can to hold it. That means dozens of more marine chapters along with millions of Guardsmen and many more warships.

 

And this is the only way to launch a major strike against the Imperium, this is practically the only way Abaddon can attack.

 

2. Chaos’s own nature prevents it from uniting, Even Abaddon cannot hold on to the loyalties of the Chaos forces for very long. Eventually his force is going to peeter out, the question is simply time.

 

This is what happens. Abaddon invades, and hits the heavily fortified defenses of Cadia hard, he has early success due to initial superior numbers, but the black Crusade quickly turns into a meatgrinder once Imperial reinforcements start arriving.

 

Eventually Abaddon’s Black Crusade unravels out of Chaos’s very own nature. The more troops the Imperuim sends, the longer the fight becomes, and the greater chance the chaos forces revert to their old rivalries.

 

Abaddon cannot take Cadia because of this fact. It is not his fault. Replace him with another commander and the results are the same. Lucius, Typhus, Huron, it does not matter, they could not do better.

 

Abaddon’s great success came during the 13th Black Crusade, where the Imperium was stretched thin holding off the Tyranids and the Tau in the Eastern Fringe. But even here he cannot hold Cadia against a concentrate Imperial counter attack. And even then, he was unable to completely take Cadia and the sector.

 

Plus, even is Abaddon managed to do this, and take Cadia, he still would have to struggle to hold it against an Imperial counter attack. By some miracle he managed to mount an offensive towards Terra, then he faces much much more.

 

He will face two entire Segmentums, including the home planet of the space wolves, and more guardsmen and marines. Before he can get to Terra, the most heavily defended plane tin the galaxy.

 

Terra, the system covered with weapons and the entire planet one giant armored hive city guarded by millions of Guardsmen, the Imperial fists, a massive battlefleet, and the Custodes, along with the Grey Knights in system.

 

And this is before the rest of the Imperial forces arrive.

 

You can bet that once word bet’s out that the chaos forces, bloodied and battered form their long war in the Cadian sector, have began heading another bloody, long trek across two entire Segmentums, you can bet that the Imperium will commit literally everything they have to stop them.

 

That means hundreds of marine chapters, all flocking to defend Terra, countless billions of Guardsmen, and entire sector fleets, and much, much more.

 

All arrayed against Abaddon’s bloodied fleet, fresh form the meatgrinder at Cadia.

 

Now do you see the strategic situation? Anyone who believes that a single Black Crusade can completely conquer Cadia, let alone take a Segmentum, let alone actually destroy the Imperium, is an idiot.

[incinerator950]

I recall Angron leading the first crusade, or atleast, leading a Large formation out of the Eye, did a lot of damage.

 

But we don't know how it would be if someone else did it, but GW doesn't want plot advancement so we would have to take the next campaign by the throat.

[Magnus Thane]

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/sonofwaranddeath/motivator7b47faec9098d40c625799465e.jpg

 

 

Honestly its time for a new leader.... :lol:

 

Hardly. He's done a good job. If the fluff states he's the best and the chosen of the Chaos Gods than he is. Period.

[Lord Kallozar]

The space pups arent THAT resistant to the lure of Chaos! Dont forget that a contingant of space wolves bowed down before huron blackheart and joined with the red corsairs.

[Lord Khammon]

Let them? I'm sure if they showed any interest... other than Angron, but he's banished at the moment.

 

Angron was banned for 100 years in 499.M41.

 

So actually he isn't banned anymore.

 

 

 

About Abaddon. His crusades hardly fails :

 

1) His first crusade kills Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists. Found Drach'Nyen on Uralan.

2) Test the defences of the new Cadia.

4) Destroy El'Phanor.

5 and 6) Destroy Imperial Worlds.

7) Find two powerful artefacts : The Eye of Night and the Hand of Darkness.

10) Kicks Iron Hands butts on Medusa (their homeworld).

12) Capture 6 Eldar über space weapons : The Talismans of Vaul (weapons who can destroy C'Tans)

13) Destroy the Cadian Gate.

[incinerator950]

The problem is we're tired of minor victories and we want something solid. He's had Ten Thousand Years to take Cadia, and he was only able to get it contested in the last Crusade. We want solid victories, not minor things, the Legions are running out of the numbers we used to have, and we don't have the resources to build enough ships and Astartes to fight, and without any cultist rules we can't have fodder to throw at people (but many BL books like using cultists as astartes fodder). I understand it's a war game, but after a few years you get sick of staying within the same time line.

 

Also, iirc, we got our asses kicked in the Space fighting, and Abbadon himself lost like what, half his fleet and nearly had one of his Blackstone Fortresses immobilized? He also killed Thousands of his own troops when he started shooting Cadia on the ground with the BSs.

 

You also left out Eldrad dying in the 13th crusade, that is actually important because Eldrad was one of the few galactic beings to periodically screw people over on all sides.