Are assualt terminators really that bad?

[Pack-Lieutenant Rakt]

I have recently acquired a second land raider from the lovely ebay, and plan on running a dual land raider list next game - one full of berzerkers and a powerfist skull champ, and the other full of terminators with heavy flamer/chainfist and lots of lightning claws.

 

I've had good results with my berzerkers recently, but have yet to field my lightning claw terminator squad, and reading through some posts, they have not always got that good press.

 

I've always loved the idea of terminators carving a path from the maw of a land raider - has anyone ran a squad with lightning claws with success?

 

And barring the usual "take a Daemon Prince" cry (as I don't have one yet...) what would you recomend I back these guys up with in a 1,750 point game?

[Important]

Well I have max tried one with lightning claws in my termie squads. I try to keep them as cheap as possible if I want them to just get in to close combat. Tend to be a hidden fist / power weapon in every squad these days.

[minigun762]

They're not bad, the biggest drawback is that they're not scoring.

 

One thing to consider is whether or not to upgrade all of them to have dual Claws. While they're certainly worth it against MEQs and Terminators, against Guardsmen or Eldar, often the TL Bolter and Power Weapon will be just as good.

 

I would always take 1 Fist weapon, just in case. I'd also take the Heavy Flamer, its dirt cheap and really helps if the squad is buried in cover, since you lack Frags.

 

Maybe something like this:

 

5 Terminators, Heavy Flamer, Power Fist, 2 sets of twin Claws for 185 points. Cheaper then an equivalent Berserker squad but not scoring.

[Redbaron997]

They can be good, but Berzerkers can do just about everything better and are scoring :/

[the jeske]

even when puting the scoring aside[and lets face it its a huge thing . building a list around non scoring troops in 5th where 2/3 of all games is about objectives is not the way to go] the assault termi units are just too small. the moment they run in to some real hth units [loyalist assault termis , demon prince etc] we find out that 5 man is too small . more because they are not fearless they sometimes run [and taking IOCG for them means they are less choppy] and if one goes the 4 termis +1hq they suddenlly dont have enough attacks and a unit of zerkers or even pms starts to be a better option.

so yeah they are bad.

[Hellbreaker]

Dual LR list? No, not termies.

 

Single LR list? Yes, assault termies work wonders.

 

Had a unit of 4 and a lord with all lightning claws cruise around in a LR and beat up pretty much everything it touched... Until Calgar came and claimed their heads... <_<

 

He had 1 god damn wound left! >_<

 

But as I said, dual list and I'd say more zerkers in pimped rhinos!

Single, then termies cruising in it is just fine, and effective and scary and you name it... Just make them all champions with an icon of khorne too...

 

As for back-up... Defilers, all the way.

 

~Typooooosssss~

 

Cheers!

[Zhukov]

Single LR list? Yes, assault termies work wonders.

 

Had a unit of 4 and a lord with all lightning claws cruise around in a LR and beat up pretty much everything it touched... Until Calgar came and claimed their heads... :P

 

Thats anecdotical evidence and doesnt prove much. I like to refer to Jeske for the reasons why I think they arent good enough.

[Corpse.]

Typical melee you want:

Charge from the raider first or second turn. Beat on his unit but don't kill everything. They cant chase down ATSKNF units to keep them tied up so they get to run away. You don't want to be exposed for their following turn to be shot/re-charged by the same unit you charged.

 

That means you have to take some hits. A smaller terminator unit has a benefit of not slaying everything until the following assault phase during your opponents turn. But then again, you can only take so many return power weapon/fist attacks from the character/special unit attacks. No frag grenades either.

 

Twin claw unit, with a single fist+heavy flamer benefits from the nice slaanesh icon for hitting past I4 and hitting on equal terms with I5 units which often have weapons that pass your 2+ save. Though, you cant reap the reward of chasing the enemy down with I5. So you may fall for the khorne icon. This icon is +5 attacks, which is a free terminator or two depending if you charged. Makes up for lack of models for the big hit, but then you face the dillema of overpowering the enemy and making them run too soon.

 

Its somewhat of a balance that regular units do well, and can chase down runners with additional bodies to take super-weapon hits better while more bodies wins over 2+ save models because of sheer number of failed saves required to be matched. Aside from that, wound allocation can work against you as well when the unit dwindles very low. (Can work with you as well)

 

Termies work best in the scenario where you depend on rolling over the enemy in sheer overbearing force. That means more units doing the same job as the termies. Rhinos take finesse to work along side them, and raptors will probly be a saving grace+2 winged princes since they can keep up and not require a second raider.

 

Two raiders with 10 zerks inside each of them works well too. Since you will have two.

 

The 5 termies are more for the powerfists and combiweapons inside a raider, and the raider hates being too close/wasting turns firing when you could just termicide instead with an icon to hone them on target. (disembark from rhino after moving it and run your dudes, its a easier second turn assault+using the icon as a homer since it wont work inside a rhino - thats just for lesser daemons)

[Spacefrisian]

What about 5 tda champions with claws, 1 icon of Khorne not very special but quite some number of attacks. 15 standard +5 for pair +5 for icon and another 5 for charging. 30 attacks with re-roll to wound.

[Gerrick]

Dual LR list? No, not termies.

 

Single LR list? Yes, assault termies work wonders.

 

Had a unit of 4 and a lord with all lightning claws cruise around in a LR and beat up pretty much everything it touched... Until Calgar came and claimed their heads... ;)

 

He had 1 god damn wound left! >_<

 

But as I said, dual list and I'd say more zerkers in pimped rhinos!

Single, then termies cruising in it is just fine, and effective and scary and you name it... Just make them all champions with an icon of khorne too...

 

As for back-up... Defilers, all the way.

 

~Typooooosssss~

 

Cheers!

 

This is about my experience with them as well. I very much enjoy my terminators, esp. with the land raider delivery system. As noted, you can get 30 LC attacks, of which you should kill around 8MEQ's - I think this is very solid. Even if you run into the dreaded TH/SS terminators, you go first, and kill 2 to 3 of them before they get to attack, and then finish them off next round. So, personally? I'm a believer. But I run Chaos Lords with Blood Feeders, so I don't mind 'less then ideal' from time to time :)