Lanspeeders

[Inquisitor Apropos]

I'm preparing to assemble my landspeeder, and was having trouble deciding how to arm it. I only have a smallish C:SM force, so I can't afford to specialise and want it to be useful vs all comers. My primary oponents are Eldar, Nids, Chaos Marines, IG and occasianally Necrons and Orks. Ya, definitely all comers.

 

After considering for a while, I keep coming back to the Typhoon ML paired with a heavy flamer.

 

It seems like an odd matchup, but there's a surprising amount of synergy. The ML give me the long range transport busting I want, and the speeder should be able to get side and rear shots to maximise the str8 firepower. It also gives me anti-horde power, and since in frag mode it's str4, it counts as a defensive weapon, allowing me to fire both it and the heavy flamer on the move. Granted, it's a huge range mismatch, but if I'm firing the flamer, I may as well drop 2 frag missiles into the mix. I just don't see the Heavy Bolter getting any use, since it would cripple my mobility and the ML is just about as killy vs infantry.

 

So, thoughts anyone?

 

Also, if my force composition gives you any help, it consists of: one Blackreach Box, one Ravewing Battleforce, and anything from my rather extensive collection of Inquisitorial Forces I ally in (Grey Knights/Sisters of Battle/Inquisitors) or repurpose (Land Raiders/Dreads)

[JamesI]

I really like Typhoon with Heavy Bolter. Can stay away from enemies and put out a lot of shooting. With this my goal is not to get too close. Most transports can be hurt by the heavy bolter as well, so its not wasted, and if I want to shoot an Ork horde Ican use the bolter and 2 frag missiles.

 

Another popular choice is multimelta/heavy flamer.

 

I'm considering trying dual multimelta at some point.

[ShinyRhino]

I'm not a fan of the idea of the heavy flamer on Speeders. That's just too close to the enemy for my confort zone. I'd rather use the heavy bolter and missiles instead. That way you can always be safely outside charge and rapid-fire range.

[Chengar Qordath]

I put a heavy bolter on my landspeeders with Typhoon launchers to avoid the massive range mismatch; IMO Typhoons shouldn't be getting close enough to the enemy to use a heavy flamer. The bolter hardly "cripples" the speeder's mobility; if you're going for anti-infantry you can still move 12" before shooting 3 heavy bolter shots and 2 frag missiles when aiming for anti-infantry firepower. You can't mix kraks without moving 6" or less, but then most things you would use krak missiles on aren't exactly vulnerable to heavy bolter fire, and besides so long as you're staying back around the 36" range only moving 6" a turn isn't a serious issue if you want to shoot both.

 

The other landspeeder combo I use a lot is multi-melta and heavy flamer; the mobility of a Land Speeder makes multi-meltas devastating AT weapons, and adding on a heavy flamer allows the speeder to go infantry-hunting if there aren't any good vehicle targets.

[Gornall]

I think the benefit of the heavy bolter over the heavy flamer is the 36" range. Being able to outrange returning firepower is huge in keeping your speeders alive. Yeah, you can roll in on a unit and flame/blast template them, but it's dead next turn. The MM/HF speeders embrace this and try to make sure they take something with them. The Typhoon is best as a standoff, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee platform that slowly snipes away at your opponent while they can't do much to retaliate.

[Deathwing]

I would highly suggest you invest in some magnets. They are fairly cheap and will allow you to change the armament on your speeder between games.

 

Now if you want a good all purpose speeder, the heavy bolter typhoon is probably the best. As many have mentioned it has long range so keeps you away from everything except dedicated anti-vehicle weapons. Depending on what else in your list, those anti-vehicle weapons won't ever target the typhoon and you can have the speeder fire away with impunity.

[Inquisitor Apropos]

I completely brainsneezed that I could fire the HB and the frag missles can be fired at the same time. I feel kinda silly now.

[JamesI]

The Hb/TML can move 12 inches and fire both, but you have to fire the frag missiles.

 

Putting 2 guns on a landspeeder means if you want to fire both you limit movement. That's the trade off.

[Gornall]

The problem I see with the dual multi-melta is the same one that bothers me about the HB/TML, or the HB/HF. If you want to fire both you're stuck moving combat speed, which is only 6 inches. I hate having my Fast Skimmers practically standing still.

 

1. Move 12"

2. Fire HB and Frags (S4)

3. ??????

4. Profit

 

And 6" can still be plenty, especially if you can standoff and hover around a piece of terrain... with my Typhoon, I tend to keep myself next to terrain like storage tanks/silos, so I can basically circle it and limit LOS from anything I'm not shooting at. Just because you CAN move 12" doesn't mean you have to. The only time I find 12" movements to be useful is when I really need to get away from something (and generally it's better to just turbo in that situation) or I need to get right in someone's grill for a HF or <12" MM shot. Otherwise, 6" works just fine.

 

I'd rather have a weapon that you're shooting 2-3+ times a game (the HB) rather than one that you admit you probably won't ever fire. That and the HB fits the range and anti-infantry role of the frag missiles very well and can still threaten most side/rear armors that you'll be taking shots at with the Krak missiles.

 

EDIT: Ninjaed! But yeah... now you see why the HB/TML speeder is very nasty. Just imagine deepstriking in and dropping 2 frag templates and a round of HB fire on a poor Ork mob.

[Koremu]

Heavy Flamer + Typhoon works too. It fires Kraks at long range to pop transports, before closing in to finish off the passengers with flame and frags. Best against armies that tend to use their transports as 'Rush' units rather than those who use them as 'Response'.

 

Putting 2 guns on a landspeeder means if you want to fire both you limit movement. That's the trade off.

True, but in that's not the whole story. Putting a second weapon which aims at the same 'target demographic' on a Land Speeder does mean that to fire at maximum effect at that target you limit your movement. But putting a second weapon which has a different 'target demographic' means that the Land Speeder is not rendered useless by the absence of its victims.

 

The Ur-example here is obviously the Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer Land Speeder. Given the preponderance of mechanised armies in 5th edition, the Heavy Flamer alone would be reliant on other units to pop the transports and provide it with targets. With a Multi-Melta of its own, it has a very powerful, tactically flexible, dual role weapons payload.

 

This, in my opinion, is why the Assault Cannon Land Speeder falls down. There's not really a weapon available that partners up well with the Assault Cannons range banding and effect curve.

[Corpse.]

Age old tactic.

 

Notice how high the speeders sit on their skimmer base? Think marines can see under them? (Offers cover save, your shooting past a unit)

 

Skimmers always get hit on 6's in melee unless your a silly swooping hawk unit with that special skill.

 

Feel the tactic coming together? Rush in the face of the enemy and keep your line of bolters behind them. Get within 12" with the bolters and keep the skimmers 1" away from the enemy, disallowing them to pass or even use their move to get closer to your deployment zone.

 

Having done that a few times with proxy/borrowed armies I decided its too easy to pull off. Downright stupid-nasty if done perfectly. (As in, why bother playing against it with horde armies).

 

I do the same thing with my Eldar's vypers, fire dragons and dire avengers. Hah.

[Chengar Qordath]

Skimmers always get hit on 6's in melee unless your a silly swooping hawk unit with that special skill.

Wrong, skimmers get hit the same way as any other vehicle in close combat.

 

However, given that Land Speeders are Fast it won't be that unusual for them to be moving at Cruising Speed or even Flat Out, which does put them at only being hit by sixes. The only reason to move at Combat Speed or lower is to fire two non-defensive weapons, and most of the popular Land Speeder builds won't do that very often.

[Battleplate]

To understand the weapon combos on the LS, you have to dig into the background a bit. Not counting 1st Ed (Rogue trader) where anything and everything was bolted to a LS, (not to mention IG variants!) the 2nd Edition LS was armed with a HF and MM. Period. Nothing else, no options. And yes, you zoomed in on a suicide run and slagged a tank/transport full of troops/godlike character and incinerated his most expensive troops before it got gunned down by a squad's worth of bolters. Then the AOD codex came out, and the Ravenwing version of the LS. HB and AC. Again, that was it, no options. DA could not field the regular LS at all. And as identified, a completely different way of operating. Stooge around your deployment zone, behind cover, before popping up and hosing everything within sight with a hail of hot explosive lead. So basically you have two very different tactical styles or uses for the LS, as different people have identified.

 

From 3rd Ed on, the arrival of bolter only LS, and variants available to all chapters, they have moved away from this image, and what most 2nd Ed veterans remember as the "Ravenwing pattern" is now just another option.

 

One thing to remember, is that survivability comes with numbers. One LS will get trashed in no time flat, but two or three of them might hang around long enough to be a problem for your opponent.

 

Anyway, that's my 5c worth!

 

Cheers, Battleplate.

[Gothical]

I had a thought just now - I don't know if it's a brainfart or something worth some substance - on how I might run a triple-squadron of Speeders for my non-Vulkan Salamander force.

 

How about Heavy Flamer/Assault Cannon combination? It costs as much as a Typhoon and has to get close to use it, but I think it's not too bad in theory: you move 12" and unleash 12 Str6 Rending shots against enemy armour or tough infantry. Next turn you move 6" and fire 12 shots and 3 Templates, clearing out most Infantry in the game (and probably downing most Monstrous Creatures after 24 shots that can rend).

 

Very costly, but I think it may be superior to the MM/HF set-up if you don't face too many AV14 all-round tanks as it can still be absolute murder to infantry.

 

I'm also debating taking Khan as my HQ so this trio can come in via Outflanking and really make a mess of someone's day without getting shot at first (as coming in the board edges is slightly superior to coming from the back edge and Khan isn't shabby in assault).

 

The double-HB option does sound fun but leaves the Speeders being a bit...plain...IMO - they lurk at long range pinging away at Infantry, but this is kind of an inglorious role.

[Fetterkey]

I think that, in general, the Heavy Bolter/Typhoon Launcher (without Vulkan) and Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer (with Vulkan) are the strongest options. The Typhoon's range protects it from many attackers, while the MM/HF is inexpensive and extraordinarily lethal. The assault cannon doesn't really have a very good way to protect itself from incoming fire.

[Giga]

You cant go wrong with MM/HF on speeder.

[HERO]

Either MM/HF or 2x HB.

 

18 shots at BS4 S5 from 36" is amazing.

[GreatEscape_13]

I'll put in another vote for dual heavy bolter here.

 

The best part? Gets ignored more than any other speeder combo. "Oh, just a couple heavy bolters? I'll fire at something else..."

 

Cheers.

[waaanial00]

Of course the HF Typhoon seems like template heaven but when you are that close to the enemy the scatter gods make those frags combe back on you.

 

HF/MM are fairly decent and their mis match of targets is a great asset because you never worry about moving 12".

 

I am still waiting to build my three space Landspeeders into Typhoons, I can think of no better all rounder that the standard HB Typhoon. Its ability to switch targets without diminishing returns vastly is massive. Being able to move 12" and lay down some rather impressive anti hoard is nothing to sniff at. 2 Krak missiles at any armoured target is nothing to ignore either. At 90 points its not exactly the cheapest option but when you operate at 36" and have other armoured targets who cares, if they want to direct high strength shots at this target let em.

 

Wan