Okay, arguments sake, because I'm sick of people whining 3.5

[incinerator950]

Yeah, wolves can be an entire Terminator Army if they take that 1 HQ, which is stupid. I knew that was gonna happen, alot of people did.

 

Yes, Chaos is still competitive, but our tacticians found out in the first 2 months of playing the new rules there are very few good lists and then 1-2 cheeze lists.

[SquirrelKing]

I'm still on the fence about playing marines or chaos, I know that I should take a grain of salt with what I hear here, but are chaos still competitive?

 

It doesn't have to be at the top meta-gaming level, but at the friendly level playing against common things such as Orks, and lots of SM?

 

Ok, I understand where you are coming from but to answer your question, you need to look at what you like to play with, or at least want to experiment with.

 

Marines have more unit options, but unless I'm mistaken, we get more options to play around with for our lesser number of units. Now bear in mind, I'm taking into account the fact that you said "It doesn't have to be at the top meta-gaming level".

 

Even with less options than before, we can make a ton of different HQ builds, our chosen/termies are very customizable, Buckets of troop options (and we used to have so many more...). Now fast attack and heavy support are where our options are little bit less expansive, but we still can get a lot with marks and such.

 

I would be very surprised if you couldn't find something to satisfy your needs with Chaos. If you can't, then it's so specific you'll be tired of playing it anyways after a while and you will be looking for something new. And Chaos will give you that opportunity without having to spend a lot of cash and or repainting because you hate "counts as".

 

I play against marines 95% of the time, and I never feel like I'm at a disadvantage because I play Chaos. If I lose, it's because my opponent had a better list/strategy/rolls. Has nothing to do with my playing Chaos.

 

But anyways, if you go either way, it's not too hard to convert loyalists to chaos or vice versa (well depends on how heavy you go with the spiky bits <_< )

[grimz]

I mean, I don't really want to play lash + Oblit spam, I like fluff but I don't want to be handicapped by it. To me thats the beauty of SM's, everything is so interchangeable. I know it doesn't carry over entirely to Chaos but still..

[incinerator950]

Actually, I was thinking of writing a joke letter to GW that we deserve rights, because Chaos Space marines are still Space marines.

 

I dunno I was bored.

[DuskRaider]

You know... You don't HAVE to play the cookie cutters to be competitive. I myself play a force comprised of mainly just Plague Marines, Vindicators, and Terminators. What it comes down to is synergy. Everything compliments one another and you can pull off a lot of cool tricks to trip your opponent up.

[grimz]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it just seems that chaos for the most part is playing with one hand behind your back... you can still win its just going to be harder than some AssTerms + Sternguard spamming SM player

[DuskRaider]

Oh, no doubt about it. We've definitely got a lot less playable troops as the Loyalists do, and for some reason despite being 10,000+ years old we're still on par, if not worse. But that's where skill comes into play. I have no problem with some schmuck pulling out the new SW codex and playing against me, because I feel that the codex is only half of it. You can have the best codex at this point in time and still get completely mauled because you have no concept of tact. I see it all the time, and we'll probably see a lot of it when this mass of people go out and buy a SW army, try to field the best build, and have no clue how to actually use it. That, my friend, is what I'm excited for :)

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Yeah, i'm looking forward to the new wolves. My army is designed to eat mechanized meqs.

[Sons of Horus]

I cannot wait to play against the new SW dex :tu: hopefully my WE are still the best at CC haha!

[D3ATHRAV3N]

I think what people dont realize is that Games Workshop dosent look at us as a dedicated army, Games Workshop treats Chaos Space Marines as another marine add-on just like Dark Angels or Black Templar.

When you look at the codex in this light i dont see it as too much of a bad deal.

But even then its not the lost customization that grides my gears i think with other armies suffering similar fates we can deal with that, its just the codex reads like its written by an Idiot, you can take 2x Daemon princes/ Lords?, what the hell were they thinking???

 

Possessed are Underpowerd

How many people have any Emperors children in thier lists?

Some of the characters are watered down

Obliterators are Hilariously overpowered, for the love of God/s why the hell did they lose the 0-1 ratio???

Raptors are the blandest unit in the dex

Bikers have been in the saddle far longer than any loyalist, let them jump over terrain like Doomrider used to so they're strong competion for raptors

Give generic Daemons access to marks like in the first dex

Chosen with no veteran skills?

The list could go on

Sometimes i wonder if Games workshop plays the game often, let alone listens to the community, hell if we all banded together and playtested often we could make a better list, make like a wikipedia style page and let is evolve or something, maybe thats the future ;)

 

The day we get a legion and undivided codex or something similar is the day Games Workshop takes us seriously, i loved 3.5ed too but that was alot of information all cramped into one book, the FAQ's and questions posted here were endless and theres no way it was all perfectly balanced

you gotta feel for the poor kids who had to fumble through the great tome.

[Kaldoth]

Well, back with 3.5 was when I actually started playing. I ran a Nightlords list and I loved that Codex to death. 4.0 came out and I shelved my army (sold it shortly after, but either way). The reason I shelved it? I didn't like the dex. Simple as that. It's true that we got smacked with the nerfbat a lot with the release of 4.0, and we lost a lot of fluff-oriented options. So, I quit playing the army. The simple fact is we will get a new dex, and possibly legion specific dexes. As such, I decided to retire Chaos until something came out that I liked. I guess I just have that mindset of "If you don't like it, then don't do it." Nobody forces any of us to play this game. It's our right to choose. I chose not to play, and grabbed the opportunity to start up a few different armies I have wanted to play for a while.

 

-Kal

[Nougat]

Seems like most of the new armies have certain really "cheesy" options that you're almost required to take if you're a big power-gamer. But Chaos can still be effective without lash spam, tons of Obliterators, etc. Same with any army, I find it more fun to take a few unit types that you like a lot, and then figure out how to support them with the rest of your army.

[incinerator950]

You know... You don't HAVE to play the cookie cutters to be competitive. I myself play a force comprised of mainly just Plague Marines, Vindicators, and Terminators. What it comes down to is synergy. Everything compliments one another and you can pull off a lot of cool tricks to trip your opponent up.

 

My army was going to consist of Defilers, Plague marines, and chosen to summon in the GD while my Sorc babysits.

 

Was being the term I'm putting my 40k into storage or I might try and sell them later to fund my Epic Hobby instead.

 

I feel particularly worse that I didn't write a letter to GW when other people of this forum did.

[DuskRaider]

You could write a million letters, it's not going to change a damn thing. GW will give us a codex, either in the form of a new all-encompassing one or the fabled Legions codices, when they're good and ready.

[Brother Hadafix]

Sitting on your hands and doing nothing itsnt going to change anything either, at least those that sent letters were willing to try.

 

Anyway that was off topic. As far as 4.0 is concerned, it makes a good renegade list, but trying to make a Legion list is a massive handicap when other options are considered. When comparing the 3.5 dex to the 4.0 dex there is enough between them to point out the differences in options and playablity very quickly, 3.5 having vastly more customisable set than 4.0 were one list tries to cover all and ends up with nothing between one list or another. This is my opinion of course, but I havent found anything in the 4.0 ever that has made me change my mind about it.

 

This is why I quit playing Chaos and used my old army to fund my BT army.