Obliterators - A tactica discussion

[Giga]

Alright, so far I've only seen obliterators used in the standard manner; place them into area terrain somewhere (usually a ruin, so they have a good vantage point), and keep them there for the whole battle, shooting lascannons or plasmacannons.

 

Now, the way I see it, obliterators should be a lot more then just a different (better) version of devastator squads.

 

For one, they can deep strike. CSM have icons (personal and chaos glory being cheaper then loyalist teleport homers), which means they can have automatic hits for all their deepstrikes within 6" of the icon (or the transport the icon is being transported in).

 

Doesn't this alone enables the obliterators to be used in a variety of ways? Safely teleporting them right next to a land raider where they can take great advantage of their TL meltaguns? Teleporting them so that they can have clear line of sight to enemy troops, hence denying cover saves on all those nasty plasma cannon or plasmagun wounds? Teleporting them into position to shower that pesky unit of genestealers or that huge mob of ork boyz with tl flamers? Simply teleporting them near an objective, and keeping them there to contest it?

 

Apart from their shooting capabilities, the obliterators also have power fists and 2 attacks base. With their 2 wounds and 2+ save, you can pretty much rely on them to wreak havoc in close combat (especially if they're assisting another unit, such as plague marines or regular CSM) or crush most vehicles with their powerfists. Deepstrike enables you to get the obliterators into a position where they can shoot and assault.

 

The great thing about deepstriking obliterators is, unless you somehow lose the icon(s) (which shouldn't happen), your obliterators will always arrive safely and remain useful. Even if the icon(s) is bogged down far from melta/flamer range, the obliterators can still fire their lascannons and plasmacannons, so they're never wasted.

 

Another cool thing about using obliterators in this way is that people don't expect it. Hence, such tactics will either make them underestimate you, or confuse them. From a psychological point of view, both results are invaluable.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm starting a nurgle CSM army, and the way I see it, having deepstriking obliterators who don't scatter is preferable in some situations to just having obliterators on a building somewhere, shooting their lascannons. This supports the in-yo-face approach of nurgle armies, as it offers both close combat and long range utility, when and where you need it.

 

 

 

 

 

So, what do you guys think about this idea? Also, why do you think so few people use obliterators in this way?

[KANAKA]

I agree with you Giga. I used to use 2 OB's Deep Striking, I will use 3 now max squad for one Heavy choice. While I have good luck w/out icons as I don't stray into Dangerous Terrain or worse, off the table. In assault against low initiative opponents (Orks), they are quite effective, against high initiative, I do depend on their save and wounds. I still like the cringe my opponents make when I Deep Strike behind their valuable units. Against Marines I use TL Plasma Guns, double tap, usually overheats once and saves (2+). I I don't penetrate armour w/melta's, 3 PF's is overkill....

[minigun762]

Doesn't this alone enables the obliterators to be used in a variety of ways? Safely teleporting them right next to a land raider where they can take great advantage of their TL meltaguns? Teleporting them so that they can have clear line of sight to enemy troops, hence denying cover saves on all those nasty plasma cannon or plasmagun wounds? Teleporting them into position to shower that pesky unit of genestealers or that huge mob of ork boyz with tl flamers? Simply teleporting them near an objective, and keeping them there to contest it?

 

I wouldn't say its a problem, but the two issue with this idea are that Chaos already has something that does that same job better for less and thats Terminators.

Termicide squads are cheaper on average then a pair of Oblits and can pack more firepower on the turn they land (which is when it matters most).

2 Obliterators with TL'd Meltagun = 1.78 hits on average

3 Terminators with Combi-Melta = 2 hits on average

 

The other issue is against alot of armies, Chaos really needs that long range firepower not for busting tanks, but for opening up transports and thats where the LasCannon really excells. While you're waiting for your Oblits to come in from Reserve, those Rhinos that are coming up the board are getting closer and if you arrive too late, they have already dumped their cargo and it doesn't matter if you smoke them afterwards.

 

All that being said, I think a smart player will always consider the option of their Oblits deepstriking.

Sometimes I think it can be useful are:

 

Playing against Land Raider rush armies, where the LasCannon is not good enough at busting tanks.

Playing against IG players with lots of Leman Russes or an Ork player with alot of Battlewagons, again AV14 vs LasCannon problems.

Against deep strike armies like Daemons, where you typically want to deploy AFTER they have dropped onto the board.

 

I'm sure there are others, but those are a start.

[Giga]

I wouldn't say its a problem, but the two issue with this idea are that Chaos already has something that does that same job better for less and thats Terminators.

Termicide squads are cheaper on average then a pair of Oblits and can pack more firepower on the turn they land (which is when it matters most).

2 Obliterators with TL'd Meltagun = 1.78 hits on average

3 Terminators with Combi-Melta = 2 hits on average

Well, if busting tanks is what you wanna do, then yes, I agree that termicide squads are better.

 

On the other hand, obliterators can do a lot more stuff (like use their flamers to deal with hordes, or use their meltas to pop vehicles, or use their plasmaguns/plasmacannons to smash some heavily armored targets, etc.) + I'd say they're a lot more dangerous in close combat.

 

Also, the termicide squads are tactically limited and predictable. When you have a termicide squad, you always use them the same way (suicide deepstrike with combimeltas + maybe a heavy flamer). With obliterators, you have the option of whether to leave them home, or to deepstrike them. It is this kind of tactical flexibility that I think is what most people completely forget when playing CSM.

[Corpse.]

Obliterator:

 

~Low profile makes use of 35 point transports for move and fire ability around terrain and other potentially dead/immobile features.

~Deep strike allows placement of a 2 wound instant death prone model in a decent spot for its variety of weapons for the situation.

~Powerfist allows this model, where champs run 55 points or even more in the cult troops, be a strategic model for melee. (Even if others are better at it, its still an option)

~To taunt models who may want to insta-death the unit into unreliable positions and traps.

~Place the unit in terrain and dreadnoughts/other big critters who often never have assault grenades fight at the same initiative as your many powerfist attacks.

~Able to fire, and have a perhaps useless dreadnought run in front of them, offering that 4+ cover save.

~Plasma Cannon/Flamer use with lash which is widely known.

 

Can't really think of any more to add.

[waaanial00]

One of the people I know runs 3 PM squads in Rhinos with Icons and 2 x 2 Obliterators. General tactic is to move froward Rhinos on turn 1 and pop smoke, turn two 1 unit will generally enter combat in one of the three locations he has pressed his Rhinos and deal with whatever spearhead of force you have decided to target at it.

 

Its a great tactic. It means he can spread his force across a large or small area of the game, generally making you concentrate your force on one or just spread out and try to counter all three. Taking out the Rhinos is the easy part, killing the icons is not. Even if the sqaud is taken out your obliterators still have two further points of entry.

 

It gives the army a real range of options from my eyes anyway. Not being a traitor ;) I dont know the inns and outs of the codex but I have seen this player tear apart armies time and time again, less of late now that we are reacting to the same tactics but that has less to do with the strength of the tactic and more to do with how the player seems to be locked into the same moves over and over again.

 

Wan

[Brother Nihm]

So, what do you guys think about this idea? Also, why do you think so few people use obliterators in this way?

Because it's almost always better to terrain snipe with them, than having to rely on a random reserve roll when you really need them.

[Giga]

Because it's almost always better to terrain snipe with them, than having to rely on a random reserve roll when you really need them.

The thing is, I always find obliterators end up shooting at something that has cover saves. Especially if its a vehicle.

 

Also, dunno if it's only me, but I never found the reserve roll overly random. My reserves almost always all arrive by turn 3. =P

[Koremu]

Reserves have become so prevalent in my local metagame that I'm more likely worrying about my reserves arriving too early.

[minigun762]

With obliterators, you have the option of whether to leave them home, or to deepstrike them. It is this kind of tactical flexibility that I think is what most people completely forget when playing CSM.

 

Exactly. A smart player will remember both options, but I would still say that in general, Obliterators are best served hiding in cover sniping armor/MCs with their LasCannons or dropping Plasma blasts on infantry.

[Atheist]

I believe that the obliterators really obliterate in mid-low range , that's where the twin-linked fun it's at . And the multi melta .

 

Also remember that , should you happen to focus deep strike them next to your lord ( with a personal icon ) , especially if said lord is a twin lightning claws guy with MoS ( sometimes MoK will do better depending on your style of play ) , you can dettach ( the lord ) from whoever is joined at the time , attach him to your obliterators ( remember they are infantry ) , then proceed to shoot all you like with the Obliterators somewhere mid-table - assuming your lord is around there somewhere ( which is a logical assumption ) - perhaps at a juicy armored target with your multi meltas , and feel safe that you will not be an easy assault target for the next round .

 

I mean a High I Lord with reroll to wound and 4 or 5 attacks complemented by 6 powerfist attacks from the oblits , is nothing to laugh about . A daemon weapon would be even better but not to me , I roll 50% of the time used 1's with it , I just got rid of it in my latest list . You only need to fear assault termies with that 3+ inv save , if you ask me , ok perhaps some other stuff too , but oh well .

 

Shooting is a whole other issue . But please don't tell me you just deep striked 225 pts in front of a gunline . ( I always field them in 3's , it's a compulsion I guess )

 

But for close combat its a useful trick for deep striking obliterators near your lord , it really pays to buy him a personal icon sometimes . It may prolong the life expectancy of the deep striking obliterators .

 

What do you think ?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Thats great Atheist, but it requires an extra unit babysitting them. Pretty much any ranged unit is good with a claw lord babysitting it, so its not really a viable way to evaluate them.

[Atheist]

Of course not , you are right .

 

My on topic opinion was ιn the first sentence .

 

The rest of my post was kind of off topic , sorry , just wanted to throw this little trick out there , just in case someone hadn't thought of it .

 

(* Dodging flying objects directed towards him by an angry Drudge Dreadnought * )

 

Works splendidly with raptors and winged lords fellas ! *Dodge*

 

:)

[Metal Slime]

Every time my Obliterators get into close combat, my smile turns into a frown. Here is my take on it:

 

-Obliterators are useful turn 1 with lascannon range; deep striking them it could be a while before you see a return on an expensive unit.

-Lascannons early and Plasma Cannons later on when infantry is exposed is pretty slick.

-If you aren't babysitting them with a capable squad, Obliterators are not so great in close combat at I1, especially if the squad you're against has a powerfist too. Then your Obliterators are basically 1W and 5+ Save. Even if you are babysitting them, Obliterators are a juicy unit to lock up in combat.

-Termicide is cheaper if thats what you want to do.

 

That all being said, if I took two units of Obliterators (I dont but...) then I think I'd deep strike one and start the other. You don't have to ds the second unit into melee range if you don't want, and its hard enough to find a place to put just one squad of Obliterators where every target and its mother doesn't get a cover save anyway. Use the second unit to react to how the game unfolds. But they're just too many points and too awesome to keep off the table for 1 to 3 turns, especially the early turns where nothing is locked in combat and everything is a potential pile of lascannon-induced rubble.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Of course not , you are right .

 

My on topic opinion was ιn the first sentence .

 

The rest of my post was kind of off topic , sorry , just wanted to throw this little trick out there , just in case someone hadn't thought of it .

 

(* Dodging flying objects directed towards him by an angry Drudge Dreadnought * )

 

Works splendidly with raptors and winged lords fellas ! *Dodge*

 

:)

 

Understood!

 

(*continues throwing chain axes at Atheist while chanting praises to Khorne*)