How to fight biker armies as Grey Knights?

[GreyKnightWarrior]

This topic relates to a pure Grey Knight list fighting biker armies, not Daemonhunters as a whole.

 

Recently I had a game against a Space Marine player (loyalists). His list was a biker list. Bikes for troops, a biker command squad for HQ, and 3 land speeders for fast attack. Each bike squad had a meltagun, and some had attack bike add-ons (also with multi-meltas). The land speeders were the Typhoon variant, and the command squad virtually all had invunerable saves- the leading character and quite a few of his escort had storm shields, and they somehow had feel no pain as well.

 

Long story short- we rolled, got the mission "kill points" and the deployment where you deploy in opposite corners. I set up as far away from him as possible. He got turn 1 and turbo boosted everything so he was about 24 inches from me. My turn, I opened fire with my 3 land raiders and disembarked my grey knights (I run a 3 land raider Grey Knight list, with 3 squads of Grey Knight troops inside and a Brother Captain) and killed a few bikers. In his turn he moved forwards normally, and shot at my grey knights. 2 or 3 died, I'm not sure- it doesn't really matter. My turn I shot at him again- but the way he had deployed, the command squad was in front, with everything else behind. Therefore my lascannons were either going up against the invunerable saves of the command squad, or the squads behind were getting cover saves. If I assulted, I'd hit the command squad which would tear me to bits.

 

Needless to say, I didn't kill nearly enough bikers in that turn, and my land raiders were promptly melta-gunned to death next turn, followed by the rest of the grey knights.

 

The thing is, I'm at a loss as to how I could have won this scenario. If the enemy deploys a command squad with invunerable saves in front of his army, thus giving everything else a cover save, and can move forwards 24 inches in turn 1, then turn 2 blast you away with multi-meltas and meltaguns, how can you stop this from occuring? Bear in mind the command squad had thunder hammers/lightning claws/power weapons in it, so assaulting it isn't really that great an option.

 

Any ideas, brethren?

[Alanter]

Put PAGK in front of your Land Raiders. They will keep the nasty melta gunners more than 6 inches away.

 

If the bikes want to get in melta range 6"/12" then assault. With S6 weapons against T5, 2 attacks and more bodies you will hit hat.

The command squad is strong in cc an will kill your PAGK fast, so concentrate bolter fire on them. They are very expensive and have an Apo, that gives FnP, but with enough wounds you force losses.

 

If it is killpoints then put all the LR in one corner and the Grey Knights in front of them in cover. You win an shoot out if you keep firing on one squad until it is dead or lost all its melta weapons and powerweapons.

[Gornall]

I run a Vulkan Biker list (with 1-2 LRs w/ Termies instead of the Command Squad) and yeah... I love to see LRs across the table from me. However, there are a few things you can try. Bikes HATE cover, simply because you can lose several bikes really fast to dangerous terrain. That and you can't turbo boost through it. Use that to your advantage. Don't be afraid to use the assault ramps of the LRs too. Bikes can't do too much if they're not shooting, so PAGKs charging them can slow them down a lot. Tank shock through the command squad with a LR (he shouldn't have meltas on it) and charge the bikes behind. Because of the size of the Bikes and you castling, it's quite likely you can multi-charge several units and keep them tied up. Also, GKTs will make an utter mess of Bike Squads. For the Command Squad, your best bet is to pour as many lascannons into it as possible because they ignore FNP and will instant death the Captain if he tries to soak wounds. Otherwise, you've got to put 27 bolter shots into them to get one wound (2 against regular squads). Not fun. That and because of wound allocation, they'll put most of the saves against basic troopers or multi-wound models, meaning you're not really hurting their effectiveness. You can also try to use your LRs to tank shock the Command Squad repeatedly to force it to take leadership checks (I've failed more LD10 checks than I care to remember) and to possibly seperate it from the rest of the Squads. Assaulting it is not a really a viable option unless you throw a GM and GKT Retinue at the problem. Even then, you're still probably losing combat because the Captain will kill 1-2 at I5 while most of your attacks will bounce off the 3+ saves. However, a TH/SS GKT or the GM's NFW can make a mess of the Captain if he fails a wound, and that will help even the odds, as will popping 1-2 with Lascannons before you charge. All-in-all, you're facing an uphill battle and I wish you the best of luck.

[number6]

I really think this is just another example of how pure GKs are no longer a truly viable army. There is no real way for you to combat your opponent with a pure GK army. You have no ability to slow the enemy down or keep them at a distance. You have no ability to simply kill them faster than they can get to you and force their gameplan onto you. Only bad play on your opponent's part and/or extremely good luck on your own part can give you any chance of winning.

 

GKs are a scissors army that can chop up some army's paper but -- as in this case -- will also get crushed under some other army's rock. Pure GKs are not a balanced army capable of taking on all comers. You have to include the other elements from the DH codex, and inducting IG is an even better idea than that.

[Alanter]

disenchanting number6 is disenchanting! :tu:

 

 

 

 

Do not loose hope GreyKnight Warrior, Skill is the most important value in the game. :P

[thade]

Sorry to slip OT but...what is a PAGK (PA Grey Knight, I presume...what's the PA?)?

 

I love Grey Knights; time for a refreshed codex. <3

[Alanter]

PA ---> power armoured

[Chengar Qordath]

Sorry to slip OT but...what is a PAGK (PA Grey Knight, I presume...what's the PA?)?

Power Armored Grey Knight.

[thade]

Thank you. =)

[SamaNagol]

You'd only be able to combat such a mobile melta delivery system as someone mentioned earlier by making sure they cannot turbo boost, negating their toughness bonus by hitting them in CC and keeping them away from your LRs by whatever means possible. Positioning is hugely important when playing against such mobile and survivable units. You can't outrun them like other lists, and you can't absorb their fire for too long either. You will have to carefully consider trading of pieces like a game of chess.

 

It's very situational, and it is an uphill struggle as well, but it is winnable.