Landspeeders or more bikes?

[OIF Knight]

I have about 230 points to spend on my 2500 point SM list. Right now I'm running a captain on a bike in a squad of 8 bikes and 1 attack bike w/MM. They count as troop choices, and I use 2 squads of assault marines as FA so far (I know that seems too redundant, but I've tried taking 1 of them out with terrible results...plus I run a reserve CC list- they strike like the fist of god on turn 2). My question is whether I should invest in a squadron of Attack Bikes or Landspeeders. An AB squad is slightly cheaper, allowing for more points elsewhere in my army, but the obvious lack of weapon variant creativeness makes the LS look sexier.

 

Again, my army is mainly CC oriented and 3/4 arrives from reserves. Since I'm already playing with a max'd out bike squad I was leaning toward the LS's for the sake of not appearing too generic.

 

Any thoughts and questions are welcome. I was considering the TML and HB combo on 2 LS or 3 AB w/HB or MM, haven't decided which. Probably MM since the two armies I play 90% of the time are mech chaos and mech sisters.

 

The 230 points becomes available to me if I drop Tiggy who I've been using for the last few games. He's AMAZING but I'm not much of a special character guy. Also wanted to use about 30 points from him to upgrade my fail-nought to an ironclad to better suit my armies theme...so realisitically I have 200 pts to spend on FA choices.

[Chengar Qordath]

If you're mainly fielding a bike and infantry list i'd suggest using attack bikes; Land Speeders do a lot better when there's other vehicles around to spread out any AT fire.

[OIF Knight]

Good point, although I do roll fairly tank heavy for a CC army...2 Vini's, Pew Pew Pred, and 1 Rhino. Vini's are there to both dish out first and second turn pie plates, provide a 24" inch 'no man's land' bubble and AV 13 shield for my CC units when they come on. Fairly effective tactic so far, esp against sisters, who lack long range AT (or at least the army I typically play against does). The pred pops vehicles from afar and can usually be counted on to inflict a wound or two on MC's before they reach my lines.

 

The rhino is a shield for tac marines with a homer for my deep strike termies and is typically a free kill point for my opponent.

 

My idea was that my enemy can either focus on my gunline, leaving the LS's free reign to hop around blasting rear armor, or the LS's themselves get focused, in which case my pie plates and Pew Pew pred go untouched (plus in that scenario I'll just turbo my speeders making it that much more difficult and dangerous to focus them).

 

Considering dropping in a MotF with servitors to repair my inevitable weapon destryed and immobilised results on my tanks.

[OIF Knight]

Oh, and I forgot my LRC with 6 assault termies in it...but you get the point on that one, no need to expand

[DarkGuard]

Well it looks like you have some good target saturation to allow you to use your Speeders without them being picked on early. So I will ask you a question. How much melta do you have in your list?

 

If the answer is not a lot, I'd suggest the attack bikes, with multi-meltas, amazingly good for their points, they will go through pretty much any tank and vehicle (apart from a Monolith), and are easier to hide than Speeders, and will get a better cover save for moving 24" compared to the Speeders, and are cheaper.

 

If you have more than enough, then Speeders could work. You could even use them for melta, with a multi-melta, heavy flamer config, although I prefer the heavy bolter typhoon config personally. That's the other thing, what config is you Pred? Tri-las, combi? If it's one of these then you have long ranged anti-tank near enough covered, so look to make sure you have enough melta first before you consider the Typhoons.

[OIF Knight]

I usually run x3 MM (1 in my tac sqd, 1 on my AB, 1 on my LRC) and x1 MG (on my Ironclad Dread). Seems like a good enough mix of Melta, and with the Tri Las Pred I don't struggle on either long or short range AT abilities. Most of the times my Vini's go for rhino's or other easy vehicle targets simply because there are no infantry on the ground to shoot at. When that little hole lands on the hull=autowin!

 

I was considering the TML only because combined with the HB it would allow for some great anti infantry capabilities, and again, the x2 Krak missles at rear or even side armor would be fun (With all the mech armies out there, I have found you can never have enough AT weapons). Otherwise I'll go with x2 HB on them for anti infantry and slowing down transports with glances.

[Gornall]

If you remove Tiggy, then rolling in from reserves becomes MUCH more painful. Just something to think about. I personally prefer LS, simply because they can hop over things, something that is fairly useful in 2500 point games when the board starts to get crowded.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

I'd recommend MM attack bikes based on what you've said so far in this thread.

[OIF Knight]

True, taking out Tiggy will make reserve rolling more difficult, but like I mentioned, I'm not much for using special characters, and all weekend I had to hear about how OP he is...even though I only went 2-1 with my SM list this weekend. Although he was MVP all 3 games :)

 

Also going with a MotF with 2 servitors to keep my vinidicators and Predator up. The 'S' that adds to my gunline is incredible. 2+ to repair- yes please.

 

I think I'm going to go with bikes, only since I could use the additional melta at cheaper prices than equipping LS with them. plus the survivability seems to be slightly in AB favor, better cover save, 2 wounds, and t5 means that they will only get wounded on a 5+ generally, throwing anything more powerful at them simply means my other big guns are going untouched. And, worse to comes to worse and I absolutely NEED to charge with the AB, 9 CC attacks isn't terrible, will probably add 1-2 wounds to the overall combat res, as I never charge 1 on 1, I usually combine at least 2 CC units in any one charge, just to ensure a CC victory...Sweeping advance the enemy, consolidate d6 away from the enemy, get ready for the next charge :)

 

Rinse and Repeat.

[DarkGuard]

I agree with Iron_Chaos_Brute, get some melta into the list. I'd agree wth you too OIF Knight, attack bikes will probably be the best way to go.

 

O and with Speeders, Typhoon pattern with heavy bolter is certainly very good, two frag templates and a heavy bolter for anti-infantry or two krak shots for light vehicles.

[Gornall]

True, taking out Tiggy will make reserve rolling more difficult, but like I mentioned, I'm not much for using special characters, and all weekend I had to hear about how OP he is...even though I only went 2-1 with my SM list this weekend. Although he was MVP all 3 games :)

 

If your opponents think Tiggy is OP, WTH do they think about Eldrad or Vulkan? ;) Let's be honest, 1 PF and he's toast... AND he costs 240ish points. Don't get me, wrong, in the right army he can be useful (especially if you rely on reserves), but I would never call him OP. Back on topic, you really can't go wrong with either MM ABs or MM/HF Landspeeders, so maybe playtest some and go with what works for your playstyle more.

[OIF Knight]

Well the issue of Tiggy and his OP-ness did come up in conversation at the local comic book store where we were playing, and it was mentioned that although Eldrad can cast 3 spells per turn, the ability has to be paid for separately, or something like that, I'm not too familiar with his rule. But yeah I agree with Gornall, he is good but not that OP...lucky hit with a PF and and he's a smoking pile of power armor.

 

The only reason I used him was to get my reserves in faster, which out of the 3 times I used him this weekend, only in 1 game did it really work...The other 2 games I kept rolling 2s and 3s on my rerolls turn 2, so I wasn't too impressed. Otherwise MotA, Quickening, and a machine curse was pretty fun, I used tiggy to take out Dread after Dread all weekend.\ using that combo. Fun, but 230 pts in one model is too pricey for me :)

 

As for the FA topic, I'm going with MM AB, just need to buy one more (had the other two already). I'll see how it goes with my playstyle, but since I already play with so many bikes I'm assuming they will fit in nicely.

[Grey Mage]

Well the issue of Tiggy and his OP-ness did come up in conversation at the local comic book store where we were playing, and it was mentioned that although Eldrad can cast 3 spells per turn, the ability has to be paid for separately, or something like that, I'm not too familiar with his rule. But yeah I agree with Gornall, he is good but not that OP...lucky hit with a PF and and he's a smoking pile of power armor.

 

The only reason I used him was to get my reserves in faster, which out of the 3 times I used him this weekend, only in 1 game did it really work...The other 2 games I kept rolling 2s and 3s on my rerolls turn 2, so I wasn't too impressed. Otherwise MotA, Quickening, and a machine curse was pretty fun, I used tiggy to take out Dread after Dread all weekend.\ using that combo. Fun, but 230 pts in one model is too pricey for me -_-

 

As for the FA topic, I'm going with MM AB, just need to buy one more (had the other two already). I'll see how it goes with my playstyle, but since I already play with so many bikes I'm assuming they will fit in nicely.

Sounds like the Muse.... *sighs*. Eldrad gets all the powers of the Eldar book, can use three of them per turn, and can cast the same one up to twice if he chooses. He also makes all enemy psychers test on 3d6, with perils on a 12+ as well as double 1's. Oh, and he casts on 3d6 choose the lowest with a 3++ vs perils himself. And hes cheaper than Tigurious.

 

No.... tiggy is fine, and your friends need to pop open a codex. If they start making odd claims like that, ask them to go look it up... and then go over to the rack and check it out. Its rarely as scary as it sounds.