What sucks about this army list?

[thade]

I'm going to try and jump into a tournament happening in two weeks (the world wide war by 40k radio, hosted at my FLGS)...at first I thought "I'd just get whupped, only several games under my belt and no wins - mostly draws! But then I read the rules and it seems most of the scoring is basedon army paint job and back story...and well I have those things pretty thoroughly. (I don't mean to brag, but whereas many of my opponents are unpainted or base-coated at best, I went to the trouble of find detail work...which I thought was the norm. Some of these guys buy a tank and assemble it in store to play it immediately. @_@) Anyway, it seems like a good way to meet players in the area that do paint their armies and play a lot...something I want. Sorry, I digress...anyway I mean to enter, and here is the list I've tailored and plan to practice with until showtime.

 

The list (1750 on the nose):

 

Librarian: Epistolary (Gate, Might)

 

Tac Squad (PF, FL, ML)

Tac Squad (PF, FL, ML)

5 sniper scouts

 

Assault squad (8 marines, PF, Flamer)

Assault squad (8 marines, PF, Flamer)

"Foot-slogging" Vanguard (7 marines, Relic Blade, 2xTH, 4 marines with Chainsword/SS, one vanilla vet)

ALTERNATIVELY I can drop the vanilla vet and give the four shield bearers melta bombs.

 

Techmarine (full servo-harness, power weapon)

Razorback with Assault Cannon, Hunter-killer, SB

LR Crusader w/ MM

 

The (basic) plan:

Combat squad both Tac squads the same way:

- Squad 1: Serg, Flamer, 3 bolters (mobile skirmisher team)

- Squad 2: ML, 4 bolters (objective holder, anti-light tank support)

 

One of the Serg/Flamer squads goes in a Razorback with the Librarian; one Jump Team buddies up with the razorback. This is my calvary/kill team 1.

ALTERNATIVELY

One of the ML teams goes in the razorback with the Librarian, who instead gets Gate and Machine Curse; one jump team buddies up. This is my anti-vehicle team.

 

Vanguard and Techmarine go in the LRC; the other assault squad buddies up. This is kill-team two.

I infiltrate sniper team such that they are either on an objective, have a clear firing lane to an objective, or both.

 

The idea is simple: keep heavy pressure on my opponent with my two mobile kill teams to clear off objectives that my small scoring units can move in on to hold. Kill Team Two will be high profile and thus in front, Kill Team One is the sort of "Halfback" position, offering support both to the LRC team and the objective holding units (whichever needs it most).

 

For the future I might reduce the size of a tac squad and/or drop the techmarine's power weapon to slip another Rhino in (I only own one rhino chassis right now). Someone will point this out, I've no doubt, so I'll address it...the Razorback is initially a Whirlwind and the hunterkiller/storm bolter are both hard-glued to the chassis. I'm a bit worried to pop them off so they stay (it's a modelling thing). (Not that I mind a little extra firepower and some expendable weapons to keep my TL AC alive.) Also, I'm looking to get a box or two of vanilla scouts that I'll gear up as melee and fit into the list somehow.

 

To me this feels like the most solid list I've yet built; if you see any glaring weaknesses or ways an opponent might stomp me to dirt, I'd be excited to know.

[OIF Knight]

I'll start with some comments, going from the top of your list down. Let me know if I'm way of course and say something incorrectly:) Again, this advice is going off of my play style so it may not work out well for you, but here it goes anyway...

 

HQ: Not sure about taking a Libby. Since you are taking x2 Assault SQDs, maybe try taking a Chappy w/JP. Not bad in CC himself, and adds a huge S to the unit by rerolling failed hits. From personal experience he is a nice upgrade. Great character that adds bonus and is VERY affordable.

 

FAST ATTACK: I also run with 2 Assault SQDs in my army list- at 10 marines each you are looking at around 60 CC attacks, assuming you charge (which almost always happens) and loadouts (I always run a PF for pesky MC's and tanks that didn't move). Be sure not to get too carried away with their loadouts as these squads get expensive quickly between flamers and PP upgrades. My advice would be to fill these squads out to their max size of 10 marines- it adds more killiness and durability, increasing your K1 and D overall. Use them together in a single charge as excellent hunters, or individually and Cleaner units.

 

Personally I would drop the footslogging Vanguard, they are nice, but in a lower points game they seem too expensive. 300 points if my math is correct, sorry if it is not. Simply put, thats way to pricey for my liking in a game under 2k points. Taking them out frees another FA slot, so look into a max'd out bike squad or AB squad for more manueverability/ranged fire power. Bikes are a bit more durable also, in my opinion.

 

TROOPS: I never use Scouts so I won't comment on them. I use Ratlings in my IG, so I'm assuming they perform about the same with SN. Could be useful to harass a squad or two.

 

I would take out one of the Tac Sqd's. That frees up almost enough to purchase an Assualt Termie SQD. And by now you have an empty LRC...see where I'm going with this? :) Again, this is the tactic I use, drop 5 of those termies in an LRC and the turn they can move 12", Disembark 2", then charge 6", GG. However, if you play objectives, obviously you are going to be hurting on units that can take objectives, so you may not want to run with that unless you know the scenario already.

 

Try not to combat Squad tacticals. Read some postings on how it degrades their overall effectiveness (K and D drop significantly).

 

ELITE: Don't really see the use of a Techmarine here. Unless he's on a bike or has a couple of servitors with him, he won't be able to repair much, and I would caution relying on him to be a big casualty producer, as they are typically support units that boost the 'S' of your overall army. If you drop him you could throw in either more Termies (2 more) or shave a few more points of somewhere else and take a Dread. Both of which would offer more overall K.

 

Anyway, I hope this is helpful or at least gives an alternative view on what I think you are going for in your list design. If I said something incorrectly I apologize in advance. I also take pride in playing with fully painted armies, so good job there. My SM are 90% painted, IG is 100%.

 

-Knight

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

After seeing the thread title, I prepared to give you a scathingly direct response, but this list is not bad.

I'm assuming this as basically what you have.

Switch mech curse to force dome, on the tank hunting squad switch to melta.

Good to see someone using vanguard correctly. I like the idea of using a Techmarine with them.

Give the scouts a ML.

 

For future purchases, consider MM attack bikes.

[thade]

Thanks for the responses, guys! Giving me things to think about.

 

In a previous post I asserted that I'm trying to stay away from Assault Terminators because (*sheepishly*) everybody goes with them...also, at $55 they are now the last thing I'll buy after transports and other trimmings. They are without question devastating, but I'd like to try another route.

 

I do use Force Dome a lot...I just like the idea of a Librarian with Str 6 and melta bomb fists haha. Force Dome is a likely candidate.

I do have a devastator box I haven't assembled yet...but my dev squad is going to be mostly MLs with a lascannon. I will have a MM to stick onto a tactical.

I owe Koremu for the idea of sticking my vanguard into a Land Raider. The techmarine is in there to make sure that LR keeps truckin...and in a pinch to kick some ass. (It was pretty memorable when he charged in and tore a Predator apart for me, by himself.)

I do in fact have a ML I can stick with the scouts. I didn't list it, but the scouts also have camo cloaks...that + the techmarine = a pretty cheap 2+ cover save for my snipers.

 

Reason I'm combat squading the tacticals is to give me more scoring units. It may reduce their effectiveness at killing overall...but really I have a ton of hard-hitting assault troops for that job. =)

 

This is in fact most of what I have. Not on the list are two dreadnoughts, my jump pack chaplain, my captain, and a Counts As Vulkan.

[Grey Mage]

Id say drop the HK missile on your Razorback in favor of a ML on your scouts- almost as good shot per shot, and you can take multiple shots throughout the game instead of one... wich for me never hits.

[thade]

Id say drop the HK missile on your Razorback in favor of a ML on your scouts- almost as good shot per shot, and you can take multiple shots throughout the game instead of one... wich for me never hits.

 

Yeah, I've never have a HK hit either. Maybe I will pop that thing off permanently.

[Brightguy]

I'll only comment on the assault squads, which I really like to see by the way.

 

I'd love to see them at 10 men with 2 flamers. I think you get a lot of extra bang out of those two models when one is a flamer. I also think that a jump pack chaplain can be a big kicker, particularly if you give him digital weapons.

 

Right now you have 1 flamer followed by 6 normal marines and 1 PF. With that combo you have 2 flamers, 7 normal marine attacks, a power weapon that can reroll to wound and a PF all re-rolling to hit when you charge. The unit becomes twice as powerful at least on the charge.

 

If you're short models running a squad of 10 and a short squad of 6 with no special weapon is preferable to me. Use the 10 man with the Chap for hard targets and the 6 as a bully or a counter-charger.

[thade]

I actually have two full 10-man squads, both with two flamers. I reduced their size in my efforts to fit this list into 1750. I might just up it to 2k, but the club's "standard" is 1750, so I wanted to have a list that most people could play against me without thinking. Also, this tournie's ceiling is 1750...the original motivation for this list.

 

Not sure what to drop to get both squads to ten. (Don't say the vanguard. <3 I luv dem.) Though if I go with the jump chaplain over the lib, there are all the points I'd need right there.

 

Decisions, decisions....I do love my anti-psycker. Though assaulting psykers with the JP Chaplain and Friends might also work.

[OIF Knight]

If dropping the libby gets you a JP Chappy and two full squads of assault marines, that would get my vote. Assault Marines, when used correctly and filled out, hit like a truck on the charge. Even against power armor, the normal attacks will force too many armor saves to make all of them, which will ensure winning combat a vast majority of the time. Play the odds game with these guys :D

 

Even in objective games, use your Assault marines to take out your opponents scoring units or defend your scoring units while they sit on an obj. Either way I tend to treat my assault marines like I'm playing a kill points game with them regardless of the scenario. They are fast and meant to kill- use em that way ;)

[Brother_Kluft]

HQ :

Libby is an OK choice, Gate rocks especially. However consider taking nullzone as the other power. Since the libby should be riding in the LR this will give NZone a huge radius. Nullzone + any ap1,2, or power weapon is super nasty vs tough enemy units

 

Troops :

The tac squads are just fine, but dont count on the scouts to hold an objective. One deep-striking heavy flamer and they are toast.

Ohh i just noted that the tacs dont have rhinos. Down grade from fine to meh. Tacs without transports are rather...meh.

 

FA :

One assault squad should be fine, 2 is a bit of a waste of points. Try to get the 5 points for TH upgrade, its worth it!

 

 

 

Also, you only have 2 Missile launchers, 2 assault cannons and 1 MM for antitank. Thats ok, but not great. At 1750 you should be seeing a lot of armour so I suggest tring to get some more anti tank.

 

As for HtH ability, your doing OK, but I hate to tell you that Assault squads are the lower tier of HTH specialists. They can take down a monsterous creature, but only with lots of deaths and a bit of luck. IF you get stuck in with bloodletters/crushers, plague marines, berserkers or god forbid TH termies they will be goo.

 

 

IF I were to rate this list I would give it a 3.5/10.

[thade]

For some reason, shuffling in anti-vehicle has been hard for me; my army is very anti-infantry oriented. The ML and vanguard *are* my anti-vehicle response teams. Lightweight, I admit.

 

Now, allow me to do this.

 

OH MY FREAKIN GAWD.

 

How could I have missed that?! I can give my jump sergeants THUNDER HAMMERS?! I have like three extras! AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!111

 

Sorry. I have a few models to build. <3 I can totally find five points!

[Grey Mage]

Drop the HK missile for it if you need... or the stormbolter.

[waaanial00]

Personally I would drop the Epistolary upgrade for the Librarian. Whilst being able to ID an enemy you have just struck at S6 seems like a winning formula its not entirely helpful, to borrow a statement from a while ago "everything worth instant killing with a libby is Eternal Warrior now"! Demons, Big bugs within Synapse even some SM characters all get immunity. Its not worth +50 points on a 2W 2A model IMO, I have tried him out and found it to be an upgrade for 2000 points and above.

 

Scouts are fodder at best when taken smaller than 10 in a unit. I would simply leave them alone. Ok you lose a scoring unit but its better than giving away an easy kill within the game which is either going to prove my predictions (I should bnever be allowed to be correct :lol:) or just bum you out.

 

The techmarine can with 25 points be made oh so much better. Making him a Master of the Forge gives him a better BS and another wound. You have the free spot in HQ so why not use it? Trust me you will want that extra wound on a unit which has 4 power weapon attacks followed up by 2 Power Fist attacks. His shooting abilities are also massively under appreciated.

 

I like it how it is, whats the fluff behind it? I appreciate its tactia astartes but if the comp is based on fluff there are enough people around to help make it better

 

Wan

[thade]

I like it how it is, whats the fluff behind it? I appreciate its tactia astartes but if the comp is based on fluff there are enough people around to help make it better

 

Wan

The fluff is for another thread. :P No worries, once I'm comfortable with it, I'll post it (with pics), each character named and a sentence or two of back story to support their purpose.

 

Master of the Forge I had not considered. That might be awesome.