Killing Assault Terminators

[thade]

I feel that the general solution to this is "massed firepower". Most of my units are assault-oriented though (two full assault squads and a vanguard in a limo, aka LRC). To top it all off, very often assault terminators have a LR themselves.

 

Here are my thoughts:

- Pop the Land Raider at Range. To do this I'd have to either get within 12" with my own LRC or with a marine-totting MM to have a chance at "range". This being done, I might be able to avoid the terminators as they trundle around, or possible kite them around and kill them with long range gun fire. Force a LOT of saves. Assault cannons come to mind.

- Pop the LR up close and personal: I'd have to surround it with assault troops and vanguard to meltabomb it to death. I'm pretty sure if I can surround the LR with troops and blow it up the termies would have no where to run and would be auto-killed. Feels really risky though, because if the LR isn't immoblised or blown up, it tank-shocks itself free and out come the terminators to rock my world.

 

Frankly, I don't have any of these things (and for personal style reasons, I don't want them), but I do fear them. Advice?!

[OIF Knight]

As someone who uses exactly what you described (Assault Termies in a LRC) I have to say that whole unit can usually be depended on to weather most opponents. The few times I have completely lost my termies was due to:

 

1. Massed firepower, exactly as you described it. 2+ saves are nice, but when you have to make 10-15 of them you are bound to fail a few.

 

2. Poor Assault Planning. If your opponent is new to using this tactic, or gets overly ambitious at the survivability of his termies, hope that he rushes out of his limo and assaults some unit that just gets pummeled. That should leave his termies in the open during your next turn, in which case it becomes a turkey shoot. The trick is to get your opponent to dump those termies out in a spot where they have little to no support, and either get bogged down in combat or sit out in the open. Just watch out- you may have to focus them hard to kill them depending on what you have at your range disposal. Often times someone will focus my termies/LRC only to leave all of my other units untouched, which can be good, even if they were lucky enough to kill the termies or pop the LRC.

 

Either way, the 2nd scenario might be the more complicated to pull off since it requires you to 'get inside your opponents head'. Drop something off near the LRC that presents a threat- if you aren't destroyed right then and there by the termies then you will continue to be a thorn in his side. If he does come out and destroys you there, they are now in the open and vulnerable to fire and manuever tactics.

 

Using that, never forget about your combat tactics ability. Termies can't use Sweeping advance. If you survive combat, but lose combat res, flee...this will essentially do the same thing- leaves his termies out in the open. Shoot em up like I said, then assault if possible.

 

Weaponry-wise, plasma guns are a good answer to any kind of termies. More so than melta because they have 2 shots at longer range, and if we are dealing with assault termies, the farther you are the better. Assault cannons would be ok, but only if you get lucky with 6's to wound. Vindicators work well too.

 

As for the Land raider, my vote would be get to within melta range. CCing a LRC with termies inside is too scary, blow it up, they assault you. Don't blow it up, tank shock and they assault you. They will always pass a pinning check with Ld 10 in my experience, so don't depend on that. I believe you mentioned this already. Besides, anyone who doesn't move an LRC AT LEAST 6" is wrong, if not more...PotMS will still let you fire the MM at over 6". Plus now you are hitting on 6's, which stinks. So yeah, stick with range against an LRC, thats the only way people have ever killed my LRC, and the only I have ever killed theirs. Lascannons might work, if you are feeling lucky, but MM is the best way.

 

As Warp Angel eloquently stated in a posting, 'its the year 40,000- everything dies'. Assault termies do go down, mine rarely survive a whole game since they eventually get focused. Either focus them with special weaponry or play the odds game.

 

Hope this helped :D

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

You need MM attack bikes. They solve all kinds of problems.

 

Charge them with the 2 assault squads and vanguard-they'll die.

[thade]

You need MM attack bikes. They solve all kinds of problems.

 

Charge them with the 2 assault squads and vanguard-they'll die.

 

I dunno if I wanna go bikes yet...bikes are in the same category for me as assault terminators (everybody swears by em)...couple that with how I really don't like the look of the bike models and...no bikes yet.

 

I figure swarming them with nearly 30 assault troops will probably do the job....Actually, I was worried about losses, but since the vast majority of my troops will have initiative vs termies, they will take some significant losses before they get to throw any dice. That's probably how I'll run it. LRC in with troops, lure his termies out (or force them out by popping the LR) then swarm. It could work. Food for thought. =)

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

People swear by these things because they work, and work well.

[Grey Mage]

People swear by these things because they work, and work well.

Problem is hed have to drop one of his assault squads or the vangaurd to do it.... hes maxed his FA options.

[Chengar Qordath]

I figure swarming them with nearly 30 assault troops will probably do the job....Actually, I was worried about losses, but since the vast majority of my troops will have initiative vs termies, they will take some significant losses before they get to throw any dice. That's probably how I'll run it. LRC in with troops, lure his termies out (or force them out by popping the LR) then swarm. It could work. Food for thought. =)

Terminators are Iniative 4 just like all other Marines. Granted, TH/SS Terminators hit at initiative 1 due to their hammers, but Lightning Claw terminators will be hitting at the same time as assault marines.

[greatcrusade08]

In the rock/scissors/paper game, the best way of killing a dedicated assault unit is with shooting.

granted you will have to destroy thier transports as early as possible, or if you dont manage it lure them out with a sacrificial unit..

 

The best unit for shooting these boys would probably be the plasma command squad, which is very good at taking out MC's so it has other uses for all rounder armies too!

 

Failing that plasma/melta is your friend, rending can help but only if your rolling enough dice, if there arent many TH/SS termies try tarpitting them with dreads.

 

If you want to take down an I4 opponent in CC try a khan list, furious charge can be very powerful!

 

GC08

[thade]

People swear by these things because they work, and work well.

Problem is hed have to drop one of his assault squads or the vangaurd to do it.... hes maxed his FA options.

 

That's not an accident. My army fluffwise swears by jump packs and assaults (primarily because I am in love with both of these things in the game)...so my FA will likely always have jump troops out to wazoo. (It's a shame; I wish I could dedicate transport a Land Speeder Storm for some scouts...but one storm < 10 assault marines in my heart).

 

Terminators are Iniative 4 just like all other Marines. Granted, TH/SS Terminators hit at initiative 1 due to their hammers, but Lightning Claw terminators will be hitting at the same time as assault marines.

 

TH/SS are my true concern, honestly...at my club 5 TH/SS termies are the only ones that I've seen on any tables. Peeps don't seem to like lit claws, and I'm the only one I've seen field standard terminators so far. Even still, a mix of LCs in there would only cost me a few marines at most. If I can bring 20-30 marines to that fight, well...I've got renewed confidence I can take them out. While that's a large commitment, they're all fast-moving, so I think it won't detract too much from other things.

 

Here's hoping.

[Justicar Valius]

they are called grey knight terminators. they have a relic blade equivalent as standard. you can give them awseome heavy weapons. and all for 45 points more than that squad of assault termys. a thread in ordos inquisitation adressed this for us DH players and it was concluded that while a dred or a callidus could help out the grey knight termys could fire off a few shots and kill one then charge then kill. The only problem would be in getting the charge. hope you already run a raider.

[thade]

I had been considering grey knight terminators...but they run the old-style storm shields, which put me off a bit. (4+ and only in CC.) Still...perhaps the Nemesis Force Weapons are worth it after all?

[Rythlan]

My opponent yesterday used his one remaining Warp Spider to warp on over and kill two TH/SS with his two S6,AP- shots. :D

[Chengar Qordath]

My opponent yesterday used his one remaining Warp Spider to warp on over and kill two TH/SS with his two S6,AP- shots. :woot:

The dice gods have been known to be cruel on occasion. One of my more memorable experiences was managing to wipe out an entire squad of Terminators with about a dozen bolter shots; five wounds, five armor saves, five ones.

[thade]

My opponent yesterday used his one remaining Warp Spider to warp on over and kill two TH/SS with his two S6,AP- shots. :wallbash:

The dice gods have been known to be cruel on occasion. One of my more memorable experiences was managing to wipe out an entire squad of Terminators with about a dozen bolter shots; five wounds, five armor saves, five ones.

 

That is both awesome and pitiful. @_@

[Frosty the Pyro]

Switch to guard, lasguns care not for your 2+ armor save, 5 asult terms =33 lasguns.

 

Also as mentioned use combat tactics and get the hell out of dodge and shoot them up everytime.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Null zone libby+AP2

[Grey Mage]

Also... do the people in your area use Extra Armor on their landraiders much?

 

In my area they dont... so you can machine curse the thing to death or stagnation, and be out of charge range too.

[thade]

I actually did do that, GM; hit the LR with Machine Curse once and he limped it to the other side of the table and used it away from my libby. Maybe I should field a librarian in this fight after all...give him gate and Machine Curse and give him one mission. =)

[Brightguy]

15 Ork Burna Boys in a battlewagon doing a driveby. 15 flame templates or 45 power weapon attacks. Either way it's extremely unpleasant.

[chapter master 454]

The real trick is to not expend your expensive AP2 on them, just plaster them with wounds. Thunderfire, heavy bolters and such. Just hit them with plently of wounds and on stats they have to fail 1 in 6 wounds, and if you can cause about 10-12 a turn on them chances are good you can kill them quickly, thunderfire is good because if they are near each other you can put the blast anywhere on their base (yes, thats right, anywhere. Caught me by surprise but it let me level khan and his command squad with one demolisher shot!) so thats about 3 or so, times by 4 you get twelve minus two so 10 wounds with good rolls and they are bound to fall over some point. I personally wouldn't worry, my 5 terminators plus lysander would intercept and give them a proper gubbin! (right, here's my pre-charge shooting, 10 re-roll to hit shots plus two krak missles. Right now with the charge and my sarge with power weapon goes first. He's a girl after all, he's weilding a power sword. Oh and don't forget I have 12 further attacks at same time as you plus lysander)

 

They are tough but as walter said in hellsing before dismantling an entire squad of ghouls in one go while they shot at him: 'they're far from invincable or indestructable'.

[Mycroft Holmes]

You're facing squads of 5 TH/SS Terminators? 2 Tactical Squads with a flamer and power fist each.

 

18 Bolt Pistol shots

12 hits

6 wounds

1 dead

 

6 Flamer hits (assumeing 3 each)

3 wounds

.5 dead

 

36 Close Combat attacks

18 hits

9 wounds

1.5 dead

 

6 Power fist attacks

3 hits

2.5 wounds

1.6 dead

 

They can't stop anny of those attacks.

 

With all likely hood you'll be dropping him to 1 or 2 termies left. You might lose the combat by 1 or 2. You can choose to run or take your morale checks, but most likely you can finish him the next turn

 

 

Mycroft

 

Mycroft

[HERO]

Terminators die just like every other Marine. If you make them take enough rolls, they'll die.

 

The best way to handle MEQ is either by AP2 blast aka Plasma Cannons (or even Plasma Guns) or a high volume of shots.

 

The thing that I learned through my many years of wargamming is that wound saturation is king. The more armor saves you make someone roll, the better your chances on killing something.