Will you use Canis Wolfborn?

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

@ Hrathnar Flintfang: I agree with you, our 'dex has been a long time coming...and I am excited to finally have a 'dex that is current. However, my original concern and question still remains, will you field a Canis Wolfborn? I doubt I will. It doesn't fit in with how I perceive the Space Wolves to be...wolves yes...He-man/Battlecat-esque character...no thanks. Maybe I'll talk my opponent into throwing one of his Dark Angels on a huge Lion and call him "Felix Lionborne" and we can fight over the Castle Greyskull.

 

Is it nice having new units? Sure. But where the Dark Angels got Master Sammael and his Uber Jetbike and the Ultramarines got a whole slew of new characters and equipment (Ironclad, Thunderfire Cannon, etc)...we get the "Wolf Whisperer". I would have been happy with a "Skold Greypelt" type-character on a bike with the same types of special rules. Yes, using wolves as cavalry is a great idea, but why couldn't we just make that an option like it was for the 13th company? It could have been easily written as "take this 13th company Rune Priest and he gives you the option for using a pack of Fenrisian Wolves as troops, etc."

 

 

And yes, I know that the fluff and storyline are fictional and that the designer's like throwing in new stuff to see if they can turn a profit and/or spark interest...and I should also be glad that our Codex isn't a two-part "White Dwarf special", but there are so many other character's that I would have preferred to see introduced to the game...Ranulf, Haegr, Skold Greypelt, etc. Instead we get the Shaggy/Scooby-Doo combo with Lightning Claws...

 

Nope. I don't know if I posted it before, but I have no plans to use him or any other 'character'. No Ragnar, No Bjorn, none. Nothing against him, and I may even use the riders if I like what they do, but honestly I do not field special characters like that and I never will.

[Vash113]

@ Hrathnar Flintfang: I agree with you, our 'dex has been a long time coming...and I am excited to finally have a 'dex that is current. However, my original concern and question still remains, will you field a Canis Wolfborn? I doubt I will. It doesn't fit in with how I perceive the Space Wolves to be...wolves yes...He-man/Battlecat-esque character...no thanks. Maybe I'll talk my opponent into throwing one of his Dark Angels on a huge Lion and call him "Felix Lionborne" and we can fight over the Castle Greyskull.

 

Wow, that made me crack up big time, well said and I couldn't agree more. Have an Ale!

 

I now find myself sorely tempted to stick Sammael on a White Lion from the Fantasy High Elves Chariot and do just that... :)

[erik ironfang]

I should also add, I do not want to stir up the brotherhood into a fight amongst ourselves...I am just curious as to what my fellow Wolves think of this new character/idea. I hope to see some of you field this new character and enjoy success...if it means that you win more battles in the name of Russ and the Allfather...then so be it. I'll personally stick to dropping a world of hurt onto my opponents with a drop pod heavy army and as many Terminators and Grey Hunters as I can cram inside those tin cans.

[Skaldnir]

To be honest i like canis. I happened to show him to a friend who plays thousand sons, and thd look of fear on his face sealed the deal. However i will be using just his rules and model, different name and my own fluff. But thats all a matter of opinion. But even though i will use him, i will respect the opinion of those that will not use the wolfborne. After all i would want the same type of courtesy.

[Mr. Danvers]

Does anyone know if the model comes with a rolled up newspaper that glues into the wolf's mouth as an optional item? Or maybe Canis' slippers? ;)

[Decoy]

With this new codex I have seen many people ranting about fluff.. While I personally do enjoy some good fluff I think we need to take a moment, relax and take a step back for a moment.

 

Warhammer 40K is a game where Genetically engineered superment who are little more than a 'this looks cool' amalgum of genetically engineered supermen from other liturature use generic power armor, Machine gun Rocket propelled grenade launchers and other hibbidy tools to fight against spaceborn fantasy race analogs, Space communist-anime-thingies, The roman catholic church circa 1200 AD only with better weapons and fewer rational leaders, and Ripply Scott's aliens, not to mention crazy Diablo Cosplayers with scifi crap.

 

Now the people who designed this world of generic Scifi space empireness have never been too clear or creative on their Canon to begin with. Races and units end up falling off the edge of the universe or taken out of the game entirly because they aren't used enough or the designers don't seem to feel they 'do the subject matter justice'. Does anyone remember that Orks have/had a gun that fires a snotling though the warp? Am I mistaken in my recollection that the one big hurty weapon for hte sisters of battle was once a Rhino with an ORGAN on it? A Gothic Organ that doubled as a Missile Launcher no less? Are people forgetting that the Primarcs include an Anne Rice pretty boy angel who gets struck down and puts some 'terrible curse' on his entire chapter for some odd reason that can only be explained as 'Psychically induced plot device', or the one who has living metal hands and whose name literally means 'metal hands'.

 

People keep talking about what is and is not good fluff, and they decry something like riding gigantic wovles as silly... We are talking about a chapter whose founder just happened to have a gene that could turn him or those with his odd mix of genetic super organs that somehow only work on men into what would basically be werewolves, and then when the warp decides its time for some plot device and sends him with his brothers all off to 'random' places he ends up in a world with gigantic wolves that raise him rather than kill him until a space viking comes along and raises him instead. This is one of the less silly and more buyable backstories for the Primarchs!

 

Brothers, I love being a son of Russ. I cannot think of another chapter, another army I would ever have half as much fun playing, and I don't even really want to try. However I think it is time we all take a few steps back and take a look at the forest rather than concentrating on the various minutia of one little sapling. So they are putting Wolf Riders into the codex. Nobody is making you play them, nobody has a gun to your head. And before you start thinking that they seem too silly to be in the game lets please try to keep the setting and context of the game in mind. Anything will look bad if you pick it apart, but this is supposed to be about having fun!

 

Quoted for great Wolfy Truth.

[Sharpsilver]

I will eventually buy him and field him. However not before I've built my Wolfguard Force.

 

 

Although for the price of Canis you could buy a box of Terminators. Which right now seem a lot more appealing.

 

It's not the looks. It's just how it fits with the army. For some reason I believe Canis would fit with a infantry force with lots of Grey Hunters/Blood Claws.

[Beef]

From what I hear, the new codex is fairly broken as well.

So we'll probably be seeing lots of newbs pick up the Clifford Cavalry.

 

 

Oh no here we go again, The codex is not even out and people think its broken, We had that enough in 3rd edition.

Personnaly I cant wait for the codex, not that I have loads of cash stored away for the models. infact I will probably be one of the last on this forum to get the new model.

[Skalver]

Ok. First off, I have not seen any codex previews or anything so all this is just pure speculation but here are my thoughts.

 

First, I see Wolf Cavalry for a Space Wolf force as no more practical than using horse based cavalry in a modern army, i.e. it is not in the least bit practical but damned if they don't look great on parade.

 

So if the fluff standpoint was that the Wolf cavalry were primarily a parade unit, used when the chapter needs to show its might or amassed together on ceremonial occasions I can see that making perfect sense. Yeah, we all know the Space Wolves are less predisposed to marching and formation than the other chapters but they certainly would be able to form up and parade if needed, to honor Russ, to impress dignitaries etc.

 

If that is the background then I have no problem whatsoever with Wolf Riders, if I can accept them in that context then the idea that they might occasionally take to the field of battle isn't even that bothersome to me.

 

On the other hand, if the fluff is that it is a primarily battle formation then it is a bit of a stretch it has to be said. Even that however isn't going to dissuade me from using them. The sheer idea of Space Marines riding giant wolves into battle in the far future is so over the top that I don't see how anyone could not want to use them. If you want the game to be realistic than hand to hand combat should be practically unheard of. If you can accept that 40,000 years from now a sword is somehow more dangerous than a gun then wolf cavalry isn't too big a stretch.

 

Also, on a last point, nobody says fenrisian wolves have to look anything like earth wolves. I have no problem whatsoever with a wolf from another planet looking unlike modern day earth wolves, I feel it is an unfair criticism of the sculpt to mention that, it is very possible that part of the design goal was to produce a wolf that looked subtly alien.

[Vlk]

If the design goal was to produce a wolf that looks alien then it is a goddamn masterpiece.

[Baragash]

I'm with Vash, even taking into account the setting it's an absurd idea.

 

Not as absurd as High Elf Lion Chariots, which I also refuse to use, but still absurd.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Remember, opinions are like certain parts of your body. Everybody has one and nobody's opinion is right or wrong. For those who do not like the idea, don't field Canis, don't field wolf riders. You can count as, or maintain your personal opinions and make them stronger by not using the rules either.

 

Let those who enjoy the game enjoy it in a way that keeps it fun. Ultimately, "canon" fluff is dictated by GW, and GW controls it. Not new, currently happening, and will continue.

 

 

Just focus on the original question of the thread. A simple answer is what is needed not debates on who's fluff is right or wrong.

 

-----------

 

Getting back to the original question....

Game-wise, Canis will just be too tempting not to use. (whether I buy the model or not). If the revelations are true, allowing wolves as troops coupled with rhinos/DP, BC bikers...will just be too tempting. Lots of builds centered on that model alone.

[Toasterfree]

He will probably be 250+ points so no. And if i did i would just use the marine and convert up a new wolf for him, a big mechanical one probably based on a jugger.

hes only 185, and hes actually pretty good!

[Toasterfree]

Ok. First off, I have not seen any codex previews or anything so all this is just pure speculation but here are my thoughts.

 

First, I see Wolf Cavalry for a Space Wolf force as no more practical than using horse based cavalry in a modern army, i.e. it is not in the least bit practical but damned if they don't look great on parade.

 

So if the fluff standpoint was that the Wolf cavalry were primarily a parade unit, used when the chapter needs to show its might or amassed together on ceremonial occasions I can see that making perfect sense. Yeah, we all know the Space Wolves are less predisposed to marching and formation than the other chapters but they certainly would be able to form up and parade if needed, to honor Russ, to impress dignitaries etc.

 

If that is the background then I have no problem whatsoever with Wolf Riders, if I can accept them in that context then the idea that they might occasionally take to the field of battle isn't even that bothersome to me.

 

On the other hand, if the fluff is that it is a primarily battle formation then it is a bit of a stretch it has to be said. Even that however isn't going to dissuade me from using them. The sheer idea of Space Marines riding giant wolves into battle in the far future is so over the top that I don't see how anyone could not want to use them. If you want the game to be realistic than hand to hand combat should be practically unheard of. If you can accept that 40,000 years from now a sword is somehow more dangerous than a gun then wolf cavalry isn't too big a stretch.

 

Also, on a last point, nobody says fenrisian wolves have to look anything like earth wolves. I have no problem whatsoever with a wolf from another planet looking unlike modern day earth wolves, I feel it is an unfair criticism of the sculpt to mention that, it is very possible that part of the design goal was to produce a wolf that looked subtly alien.

thunderwolf cav at 50 pts a model, plus upgrades, unit size 1-5. s 5 t 5 w 2. all of them on no smaller then a 40mm, and canis on a 60mm who gets the number of models in b2b with him, and iirc goes at i 6 with wolf claws....hmmm. yeah i may have to get a unit of this to take once in a while, but as is im thinkin of dropping my LR to get extra troopers on the table.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

Well I suppose this gives me the opertnity to dust off the slaneshi lord riding a giant horse (converted from Archion) hell all I've got to do is chainge the head and ad some wolf symbols (think I can get away with a meat off sword instead of claws?)

[OnlyInDeath]

I love how people are sitting here arguing about how ridiculous it is to ride a giant wolf into battle, mind you that they could have had any number of cybernetic enchancements and could be little more than wolf-esque servitors, but they have no problem fielding a unit of wolfs as a fast attack choice, and having them operate with a collective mind that will always send them towards the enemy....nevermind the fact that these wolves hunt aspirants so they would have a nice little taste for human flesh. This game isnt about reality. It's about fun. Anyone who doubts that has to take a good long look at ork fluff.

[Arturas]

I love how people are sitting here arguing about how ridiculous it is to ride a giant wolf into battle, mind you that they could have had any number of cybernetic enchancements and could be little more than wolf-esque servitors, but they have no problem fielding a unit of wolfs as a fast attack choice, and having them operate with a collective mind that will always send them towards the enemy....nevermind the fact that these wolves hunt aspirants so they would have a nice little taste for human flesh. This game isnt about reality. It's about fun. Anyone who doubts that has to take a good long look at ork fluff.

On the contrary in a post on another forum I brought up the ridiculousness of packs of wolves that can conform to a battle plan without supervision...

 

And a cybernetically enhanced giant wolf is kinda dumb in and of itself; unless it makes the wolf bullet proof and you can buy the cybernetics at the local wally world. And if I was a space wolf with a burning desire to go fast I'm pretty sure I would look at a bike before I look at a wolf. Besides think of the mess they would make in the thunderhawk- it would be like riding in a horse trailer.

 

The problem with marine cavalry is that a power armored marine on top of a naked animal is about as useful as the animal itself. If I see a wolf rider coming at me I'm not going to shoot the massively armored rider- I'm going to shoot the critter barreling at me and watch its momentum send its rider flying when I blow its head off. there may even be pointing and laughing involved...

 

I'm not opposed to fenrisian wolves but they should be like they were in the 3rd ed codex: hunting companions for SW characters.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

I love how people are sitting here arguing about how ridiculous it is to ride a giant wolf into battle, mind you that they could have had any number of cybernetic enchancements and could be little more than wolf-esque servitors, but they have no problem fielding a unit of wolfs as a fast attack choice, and having them operate with a collective mind that will always send them towards the enemy....nevermind the fact that these wolves hunt aspirants so they would have a nice little taste for human flesh. This game isnt about reality. It's about fun. Anyone who doubts that has to take a good long look at ork fluff.

On the contrary in a post on another forum I brought up the ridiculousness of packs of wolves that can conform to a battle plan without supervision...

 

And a cybernetically enhanced giant wolf is kinda dumb in and of itself; unless it makes the wolf bullet proof and you can buy the cybernetics at the local wally world. And if I was a space wolf with a burning desire to go fast I'm pretty sure I would look at a bike before I look at a wolf. Besides think of the mess they would make in the thunderhawk- it would be like riding in a horse trailer.

 

The problem with marine cavalry is that a power armored marine on top of a naked animal is about as useful as the animal itself. If I see a wolf rider coming at me I'm not going to shoot the massively armored rider- I'm going to shoot the critter barreling at me and watch its momentum send its rider flying when I blow its head off. there may even be pointing and laughing involved...

 

I'm not opposed to fenrisian wolves but they should be like they were in the 3rd ed codex: hunting companions for SW characters.

 

 

Which they have, and you can use. However as I said before it really is kind of hard toget something 'silly' out of 40K. Again there really is not much logic to most things in this game. If we start drawing lines in the sand then we will have to take a step back and look at all the things that are even more ridiculous that we already tout as Canon.

[Arturas]

Which they have, and you can use. However as I said before it really is kind of hard toget something 'silly' out of 40K. Again there really is not much logic to most things in this game. If we start drawing lines in the sand then we will have to take a step back and look at all the things that are even more ridiculous that we already tout as Canon.

 

Okay I'm game. Examples?

[Kenmichi]

Which they have, and you can use. However as I said before it really is kind of hard toget something 'silly' out of 40K. Again there really is not much logic to most things in this game. If we start drawing lines in the sand then we will have to take a step back and look at all the things that are even more ridiculous that we already tout as Canon.

 

Okay I'm game. Examples?

 

Tanks with organic eyeballs, tentacles, and all matter of other organic life springing off its metal shell.

[Grey Mage]

@ Hrathnar Flintfang: I agree with you, our 'dex has been a long time coming...and I am excited to finally have a 'dex that is current. However, my original concern and question still remains, will you field a Canis Wolfborn? I doubt I will. It doesn't fit in with how I perceive the Space Wolves to be...wolves yes...He-man/Battlecat-esque character...no thanks. Maybe I'll talk my opponent into throwing one of his Dark Angels on a huge Lion and call him "Felix Lionborne" and we can fight over the Castle Greyskull.

 

Is it nice having new units? Sure. But where the Dark Angels got Master Sammael and his Uber Jetbike and the Ultramarines got a whole slew of new characters and equipment (Ironclad, Thunderfire Cannon, etc)...we get the "Wolf Whisperer". I would have been happy with a "Skold Greypelt" type-character on a bike with the same types of special rules. Yes, using wolves as cavalry is a great idea, but why couldn't we just make that an option like it was for the 13th company? It could have been easily written as "take this 13th company Rune Priest and he gives you the option for using a pack of Fenrisian Wolves as troops, etc."

 

 

And yes, I know that the fluff and storyline are fictional and that the designer's like throwing in new stuff to see if they can turn a profit and/or spark interest...and I should also be glad that our Codex isn't a two-part "White Dwarf special", but there are so many other character's that I would have preferred to see introduced to the game...Ranulf, Haegr, Skold Greypelt, etc. Instead we get the Shaggy/Scooby-Doo combo with Lightning Claws...

Ever think maybe it WAS the 13nth company? Ive never heard of this "Canis Wolfborn" before- perhaps he is a 13nth co wolf lord recently reuinited with the rest of the fang. Maybe.... just maybe... this codex is presented just after the eye of terror campaign. Perhaps thats why weve got fenrisian wolf packs and wolf riders and two specials in each GH pack?

 

Id like to think so.

[hendrik]

today was the last time i played with my old dex, when i told the guys i was fighting to the rumours about canis they just started laughing, took a couple of minutes before they went normal again.

imo we're going to have some list buildups that i dislike at all! especially the all out jumppack, TDA or biker armies. sorry that's just not how we wolves work. the grey hunters have, are and will be the backbone of our chapter!

[erik ironfang]

@Gray Mage - I hadn't considered that. If Canis Wolfborn is a hero from the 13th company, then I could see where it came from. New unit to the Fang, shows up after having spent some time chasing down the 1K Sons in the Eye of Terror...bikes ran out of gas...your pet wolf has been caught doping with Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz and is now the size of a horse...I can see how it evolved into the game.

 

or...

 

Canis gets drunk out of his mind playing beer pong with some mischievous Blood Claws...loses the game and the bet...one Blood Claw turns to him and "dares" him to try and ride ol' Fangs and Fur...next thing you know...SHAZAAM!!...we have Wolf Riders!

 

I still stand by my original question (Thank you Lord Ragnarok for reminding us of that), Will you use Canis Wolfborn? I don't think I will simply because old habits die hard...I like bolters, chainswords, a few glory hungry Blood Claws, a few packs of battle-tempered Grey Hunters, and some hardened Wolf Guard to get the job done. Throw them all in drop pods with a Wolf Lord and a Ven Dread....and you have yourself a party!

 

Here's how I see the changes...I won't play all of them...but like with the new Ultramarines stuff...there is enough new stuff to customize your Space Wolf army to play the way you want to play. Perhaps your Great Company is all about speed and maneuver...go for it, Wolf Riders and all. Maybe you envision your Wolves as armored and trigger happy...bring the heavies in. Or maybe you like an epic battle where you drop into a hot LZ outnumbered and surrounded but have enough firepower and nasty suprises up your sleeve to really mess with your opponent's carefully laid plans.

 

In the end...some of the changes are going to make the Long Fangs in our pack shake their heads and wonder what crazy idea the pups will come up with next. Other changes will make the grizzled veteran's heart swell with pride knowing that some of our long-lost battle methods have returned to us... (Torgarl's Plasma blade/ Ragnar's Howl/ Hangovers at the Fang/ Pissing of Codex Chapters). As long as we're winning battles and our collective roars of victory can be heard throughout the GW world...then have it it brother! (Just make sure you clean up after your wolf...it sheds all over the place and leaves nasty yardmines where I'm walking)

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

Which they have, and you can use. However as I said before it really is kind of hard toget something 'silly' out of 40K. Again there really is not much logic to most things in this game. If we start drawing lines in the sand then we will have to take a step back and look at all the things that are even more ridiculous that we already tout as Canon.

 

Okay I'm game. Examples?

 

If you look up to my previous post you will see I have sited only a very small set of examples, It should be on the last page, and was 'quoted for truth' by Decoy up at # 56 on this page of the thread. It surprises me how many people forget how utterly silly and nonsensical this game is once you pick apart the duct tape and bluetak holding it togeather.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I'm not opposed to fenrisian wolves but they should be like they were in the 3rd ed codex: hunting companions for SW characters.

 

They are not fluff has changed as it always will. Just like Russ is no longer an Imperial Guard commander.

 

In the end...some of the changes are going to make the Long Fangs in our pack shake their heads and wonder what crazy idea the pups will come up with next. Other changes will make the grizzled veteran's heart swell with pride knowing that some of our long-lost battle methods have returned to us... (Torgarl's Plasma blade/ Ragnar's Howl/ Hangovers at the Fang/ Pissing of Codex Chapters). As long as we're winning battles and our collective roars of victory can be heard throughout the GW world...then have it it brother! (Just make sure you clean up after your wolf...it sheds all over the place and leaves nasty yardmines where I'm walking)

 

Yes, flexibility is king. Many different ways to field the army as one sees fit. Which should be without any forced opinions from anyone else. The second thing that has always attracted me to SW is their stubborn-ness and blind eye to authority. I'd hate to see any SW players so stiff backed like Calgar's boys that they'd expect other SW players to fit their preconceived mold.