Will you use Canis Wolfborn?

[Arturas]

Which they have, and you can use. However as I said before it really is kind of hard toget something 'silly' out of 40K. Again there really is not much logic to most things in this game. If we start drawing lines in the sand then we will have to take a step back and look at all the things that are even more ridiculous that we already tout as Canon.

 

Okay I'm game. Examples?

 

If you look up to my previous post you will see I have sited only a very small set of examples, It should be on the last page, and was 'quoted for truth' by Decoy up at # 56 on this page of the thread. It surprises me how many people forget how utterly silly and nonsensical this game is once you pick apart the duct tape and bluetak holding it togeather.

 

Yes I read that post and was unphased. Yeah there's some weird stuff in 40k but most of that fluff has not only been around forever but (in the context of the invented 40k universe) makes sense. Note that I said most; I can't deny there is some stuff that doesn't make sense. And if I had been keeping up on the IG rumors before the 'dex came out I would have complained about the fluff beat of having up to 30 psykers in an IG army. However this game and it's fluff are not perfect; I play this game despite the occasional weirdness. I just think that wolf riders go beyond odd or silly to ridiculous.

 

I really don't know why I'm arguing the point. I don't even play space wolves and there's only one guy at my FLGS who occasionally plays space wolves (and he thinks wolf riders are stupid) so I probably won't even see them.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

Well brother, if that little bit of fluff is that hard for you to swollow, then I am glad you will not have to deal with it much if at all. Me? well if I like the units I will use them, and if not I won't. Personally I don't think that 40K should be taken with a very large grain of Alton Brown style kosher salt (Brown is a Wolf by the way, we called him.) Personally I still remember reading though the copy of the original Rouge Trader book I got from a second hand bookstore as a kid, and it had some 'silly' things in it then, and its 'silly' now. I actually prefer my 40K that way.

[Rau le Creuset]

I don't understand how people can have such a problem with Canis. First, as said, riding a bike in battle is not less weird. Second, it's not a new standard unit. It's one character in SW history that happened to ride a wolf and he had a retinue of maniacs just like him. It's an exception, not a reality twisting new unit in the fluff, that every SW army could possess.

[Arturas]

Just to clarify I think space wolves are pretty cool. I always have. But what stinks is that now the answer to "what's up with space wolves" from newbs will be: "space wolves? they ride around on giant wolves!" with heavy doses of sarcasm.

And that's sad.

[Grimmwulf]

I am also of the "I hate that model" fraction. He is pretty damn ugly. So is Lukas. But I am fine with their fluff and I think everyone who likes them should use them. I am just disappointed that they made models that are that crappy, i would of course rather have had cool looking stuff. But on the other hand this saves me a lot of money to buy other new sw stuff for. That cost of canis is ridiculous!

[Vlk]

I don't understand how people can have such a problem with Canis. First, as said, riding a bike in battle is not less weird. Second, it's not a new standard unit. It's one character in SW history that happened to ride a wolf and he had a retinue of maniacs just like him. It's an exception, not a reality twisting new unit in the fluff, that every SW army could possess.

 

 

Those bikes are bulletproof and incredibly fast - read the fluff in C:SM ^_^

 

However, I can imagine wolf riders to work... those wolves can indeed be enhanced and most importantly, they are large, savage creatures who can take much more punishment than any other riding animal. And because they're wolves, I can imagine them having "move through cover" and perhaps outflank or so, so they can make surprise attacks from unexpected directions.

[Hellios]

I have a 13th company army so I might be taking things like canis just to keep my army more feral... considering my wulfen units have apparently gone...

[Lord Ragnarok]

Just to clarify I think space wolves are pretty cool. I always have. But what stinks is that now the answer to "what's up with space wolves" from newbs will be: "space wolves? they ride around on giant wolves!" with heavy doses of sarcasm.

And that's sad.

 

 

Sometimes we care too much what others think. There is not one 40k race which can escape sarcasm.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Sometimes we care too much what others think. There is not one 40k race which can escape sarcasm.

 

True. And as sarcasm is the poor man's wit and we're all poor men (having paid for GW products), there's plenty of it to go around. ;)

[spectre312]

I'm saying no. I don't like the animal riding thing in my 40k. This is really making me look at GW and say "Um, excuse me, you've dropped some WHFB in 40k". Really, do the wolves increase the riders toughness like a bullet proof motor cycle? or do they get the old 5+ save now? How many bolters rounds do you think a wolf can take? It's not like the wolves are wearing power armor.

 

I love the idea of packs of wolves charging in along side marines, Ala dogs and warhounds. But riding them? what's next, bats for the Blood Angels assault squads? Pegasus horses for the Dark Angels? Are the Black Templars going to come charging in on dark stallions? IG commanders riding ogryns? For me, if I wanted guys on horses and wolves and dragons I'd have gotten into fantasy.

 

Wolves running along side of me attacking people, cool. But I wouldn't ride anything fleshy into a gunfight that I'm wearing armor into.

 

My pieces of change.

[40kChrista]

i'm reserving any judgement till i see the 'dex myself. i'm not going to get all bent out of shape cause one unit seems like ROFLOMG:cussBBQ...

 

as Hrathnar stated, it's about fun... isn't it?

 

i can't say i either like or dislike the idea wolf riders... it is intriguing at the least, over powered

cheese at the worst... but again, no one is making you use Canis.

[Vlk]

I love the idea of packs of wolves charging in along side marines, Ala dogs and warhounds. But riding them? what's next, bats for the Blood Angels assault squads? Pegasus horses for the Dark Angels?

 

Everybody knows that the Dark Angels ride unicorns.

[spectre312]

I love the idea of packs of wolves charging in along side marines, Ala dogs and warhounds. But riding them? what's next, bats for the Blood Angels assault squads? Pegasus horses for the Dark Angels?

 

Everybody knows that the Dark Angels ride unicorns.

 

 

Unicorns with lazzoorz!!one!

 

Of course I don't think everyone is going to like same ideas. I'm kind of curious if I'm going to see alot of pure Terminator armies, or even huge foot slogging ultra cheap GH armies. I think this codex is going to be a barrel of monkeys bathing in ale no matter what, and I can't wait!

[Skalver]

I'm saying no. I don't like the animal riding thing in my 40k. This is really making me look at GW and say "Um, excuse me, you've dropped some WHFB in 40k". Really, do the wolves increase the riders toughness like a bullet proof motor cycle? or do they get the old 5+ save now? How many bolters rounds do you think a wolf can take? It's not like the wolves are wearing power armor.

 

The model gets +1 toughness (assuming it does ;)) to represent the fact that it is marginally harder to kill both wolf and rider. Think of it as a combination of the difficulty of hitting a fast moving target, the way sometimes even if you do take out the wolf the marine will still be close enough to attack, or how sometimes marine whose mount is killed can take the mount of a marine who was killed. Think of it that every shot that hits the wolf is one that doesn't hit the marine. The extra toughness is a simple way of representing that while still keeping the simplicity of the single model system.

 

Yeah, if you really want you could come up with a system where the mounts and riders could be targeted and killed individually, factor in a system for falling damage to the rider if the mount is killed, a complex set of rules to govern how the unit behaves when riders or mounts are killed but for simplicity sake they just add +1 toughness and call it a day.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I'm saying no. I don't like the animal riding thing in my 40k. This is really making me look at GW and say "Um, excuse me, you've dropped some WHFB in 40k". Really, do the wolves increase the riders toughness like a bullet proof motor cycle? or do they get the old 5+ save now? How many bolters rounds do you think a wolf can take? It's not like the wolves are wearing power armor.

 

I love the idea of packs of wolves charging in along side marines, Ala dogs and warhounds. But riding them? what's next, bats for the Blood Angels assault squads? Pegasus horses for the Dark Angels? Are the Black Templars going to come charging in on dark stallions? IG commanders riding ogryns? For me, if I wanted guys on horses and wolves and dragons I'd have gotten into fantasy.

 

Wolves running along side of me attacking people, cool. But I wouldn't ride anything fleshy into a gunfight that I'm wearing armor into.

 

My pieces of change.

 

So you also have a problem with guys on bikes correct? They look pretty exposed to me, and with advance targeting I don't care how fast you are boosting, you will die as easy.(M1A1 tanks have no problem firing on the move at moving targets) And if you think about it, some dudes jump packing into the air fully exposed, with all that 40k weaponry ready to blast them to bits, really makes no sense at all. Let's not take our stuff too seriously, because that surely takes the fun out of it.

 

A chapter that venerates an animal like we do, would surely use it in battle, if it were tame enough, large enough, and vicious enough as the fluff would lead us to believe. You're right, it wouldn't make sense for any other chapter, because it is not as ingrained in the essence of those forces.

[Stormwulf133]

You know I gotta say I hated the model and concept at first. I am slowly starting to change my mind on the concept at least. I hear everyone say how silly it is, and I was in the same boat. The more I think about it, the less silly it seams as far as a sci-fi/fantasy type game. Ok, so maybe the concept is silly but 40k isnt the only fiction to use it. How many of us here are Star Wars fans? I don't remember once thinking while watching it, "Those guys are riding on giant lizards/ big cows/snow kangaroos but they use lasers and big guns and armor. That's stupid." It also goes along with the close combat thing someone posted. Everyone uses guns, yet there is a whole lot of HtH combat.

 

I think now I just might hate the model.

 

If only I could get my hands on that codex.......

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

Actually if you think about it, there are a few reasons why riding a wolf would make more sense than a bike, just like it makes sense to have attack helicopters while you still have jets. For one thing while a wolf will not be nearly as fast as some uber motorcycle that somehow resists lasers easily it will be manuverable at low speeds and will do better over rough terrain. Add this to the ability to jump and climb and the added melee kick and you can see why it would be a viable option.

 

Now as for the bit about how fragile they would be relative to their riders, well -clears throat and slips into an Alton Brown Voice- Just Green stuff some carapace armor on them and say its thinner for added mobility.

[Nadir]

WH40k take ideas from all over the world. Beast as cavalery were used where the bikes or other equipment have (or could have) faild.

In 1870 there was camel gun, with gattling machine gun, and other with a little cannon (British version).

(sorry, lost better pics)

http://www.ruble-enterprises.com/image_pag...874_camel_p.jpg

http://www.camelphotos.com/GraphicsP7/CamelGun.jpg

Polish cavalery at war with Bolshevic Soviet Union, were using horses with self propelled missile launchers:)

 

Warriors of 40k use axes and swords, but still have super ultra gizmo gunz, and ultra hyper thick armor.

 

I like ide of riding wolves. At last for SW. Esspecialy when you get them size, bionics and armor (Canis wolf got all of this).

[Growler67]

I like ide of riding wolves. At last for SW. Esspecialy when you get them size, bionics and armor (Canis wolf got all of this).

 

I too like the idea. Not to mention: Move as Cav, 8 points each and can be upgraded to Cyber for 10 points which Increases S by 1; T by one (true toughness, so its T5 and not T5(4)); A +1, Rending.

[Castlerook]

I'd be very tempted, but then again I have about 3K points of extra marines on the frame so I'm just wondering what to do with them. Space Wolves would compliment my Dark Angels, then again there are several other ideas running around my head.

 

I haven't seen the codex (as have most of the people on this forum) so I can't judge it. And I'll be the first to admit when I heard the whispers of a Space Wolf riding a huge Wolf in space I was very sceptical. But then I realised that each of the Great Companies are wildly different to each other, some prefer the idea of being loaded into a giant bullet, get aimed at a planet and fired from orbit. Others prefer the traditional method of getting on a Rhino and driving over a few Ork heads. Why can't Canis' Great Company be a feral company, stalking the prey using their namesakes method? No tanks, no drop pods, no heavy armour, just wits and a feral cunning.

 

Some people wonder why should the Imperium be using animals when they have tanks and technology? Because sometimes, for all the amazing scanners and vehicles the Imperium might have, you can't really beat what Nature already has. Even today, (And before I start, I want to say, I hate bringing the real world to 40K, 40K is a fantasy setting and it should stay fantastic, the real world has no place in a setting where genetically engineered supermen rule the game), modern military forces still use animals to a great degree. Horses are still used for patrols in mountainous terrain because vehicles can't get in there and helicopters can't navigate the cliffs or wind sheers. Chemical detectors can pick up minute samples of drugs, bombs and harmful chemicals but dogs are still used because lets face it, they can do it better.

 

One of my favourite stories about WWII concerns the lengths governments went to to create new weapons. The Bat Bombs were a cruel, but ingenious plan used by the US government where they captured thousands of bats, put them to sleep and attached flammable gel in wax pellets to the bats. The bats were supposed to be dropped over Japanese cities where the bats would fly and roost in the wooden buildings. Meanwhile the bat's body heat would melt the wax pellets and the gels would ignite in air. The idea was sound, but the designers forgot one thing.....all bats have a strong homing instinct and during testing the bats flew back to the roost they were kept in and burned down half the facility. The project was shelved soon afterwards.

 

My point is, it doesn't matter how technologically a military force is, if theres a tactical niche that can be filled better then a piece of technology, they'll use it, especially if technology is becoming increasing rare, would you rather lose a couple of wolves or a couple of bikes?

 

Just my thoughts.

[Valerian]

No I won't field him. I don't really have a huge problem with the concept or even the model, but I simply don't need him. I'm going to have a hard enough time keeping HQ points at a reasonable level. I also won't try to build any Thunderwolf Cavalry (TWC) but might use my BC Bikers (now Swiftclaws) as counts-as TWC, just to see how they workout.

 

I've already got a perfectly good Wolf Lord; I've been playing Ragnar since Rogue Trader days, and am happy to see that he kicks even more ass now than he ever has. You can have the new shiny guy, I'll stick with old faithful.

 

Valerian

[Vash113]

I love the idea of packs of wolves charging in along side marines, Ala dogs and warhounds. But riding them? what's next, bats for the Blood Angels assault squads? Pegasus horses for the Dark Angels? Are the Black Templars going to come charging in on dark stallions? IG commanders riding ogryns? For me, if I wanted guys on horses and wolves and dragons I'd have gotten into fantasy.

 

Wolves running along side of me attacking people, cool. But I wouldn't ride anything fleshy into a gunfight that I'm wearing armor into.

 

Well said and I agree, couldn't have said it better, have an ale!

[colinkelley]

Well the model is terrible.

 

It seems weird they didn't include wulfen if they were going to crowbar in a new unit.

 

That being said I think I will be using the rules to represent my wulfen as mine are quite bulked up and on 40mm bases already.

[WG Vrox]

This is the strange part, his rules state that all Fenris Wolves count as troops, but under the Fenris wolves section it states under no circumstances can Fren wolves hold objectives. Which one over rides which, can I take an all wolf army if I include Canis? or does it mean that Fenris Wolves can be taken under the troop section of a list?

 

WG Vrox

[Valerian]

This is the strange part, his rules state that all Fenris Wolves count as troops, but under the Fenris wolves section it states under no circumstances can Fren wolves hold objectives. Which one over rides which, can I take an all wolf army if I include Canis? or does it mean that Fenris Wolves can be taken under the troop section of a list?

 

WG Vrox

 

there is no conflict here; they simply count as troops that cannot hold objectives. No real issue for Kill Point games, and for Objective games you go for either the massacre or contest objectives, which pushes it to kill points to resolve the winner IIRC.