DH and Allies

[Gornall]

I'm starting up a DH army and was curious as to what are some of the best ways to use allies to shore up some weaknesses with the DH codex. I was thinking that IG platoons could provide needed bodies, cheap/light vehicles, and mid-to-high strength weapons such as Autocannons/MLs/Lascannons to help with anti-tank duties. Sisters could provide more PA bodies and melta/flamer support, not to mention some utility with the Faith system. I notice most of the posts refering to pure GK builds, and while those are awesome, I would like to find out more about how to use the full might of the Imperium to kill the heretic and the daemon.

[Grand Master Caloth]

IG is a good way to go, cause of the meltas/las/etc. And the new Vets with the AP3 Hotshots could really help against all the PA armies out there, if they live long enough. We at my store also play that the 0-1 Leman Russ works as a squardron, so 3 of those bad boys rolling could well be worth it.... Sisters add the Faith element, but it only works for them (GK with Rending would be so SICK!!!), plus their inquisitors have a better retinue in my opinion. Sry i can be more help, but im a Puritan. lol

[shan vener]

if your looking for daemon hunters allies try the black templars they rule in combat and are the perfect allies (plus if you combine they're names you get the knights templars or grey black)

[number6]

IMHO, about the most potent army build you can make today would be IG with allied GKTs (maybe a unit of allied PAGKs).

 

Along similar lines, a very potent DH army can be built with the inducted IG rules ... and we could even talk about that here! :)

 

Beyond that, Malleus Inquisitors with mystics are welcome in any Imperial army, and GKTs and PAGKs with psycannons could also be put to excellent use in virtually any Imperial army.

 

So, to answer your question directly: inducted IG is the best way to shore up any DH army with what you need. Namely, mechanization in the form of Chimeras and anti-armour in the form of cheap autocannons and lascannons.

 

I would strongly recommend using small 5-man IST units with 2x meltas in Rhinos as your core Troops options, too. Mechanization and anti-armour all in one place. GKs just can't do that. GKs are awesome, but they aren't capable of tackling armour effectively. You must first shore up that before you can afford to splurge on our favorite power-armoured heroes.

[Lord Asher]

Good day all, I've been traveling in the world of Fantasy for a while, long enough to forget what email address and/or username I used before, so here I go I again.

 

I would like to certainly explore the inducted guard list a little more. I think there are some great options for us, but it's not quite as easy as it would seem. Has anyone had any significant success with inducted guard at 1750 point level. I'm also not seeking any rule bending methods.

 

I think a large combined guard platoon, maybe 30, led by a commissar, backed up by some heavy weapon teams may be a good option. A couple Chimera's tossed in to help scoot around IST's or PAGK would seem to fit nicely. I'll start with something like this list below and encourage comments.

 

So, my thoughts would be for the IST units and PAGK to ride the Chimeras.

 

Grand Master

4 Terminators – Incinerator

 

Power Armour Grey Knights

Justicar + 7 Knights – 2 Incinerators

 

Platoon Command -Las-Cannon

Chimera

 

3 Infantry Squads – 1 commissar

Chimera = 55

Chimera = 55

 

HWS - 3 Las Cannons

HWS - 3 Auto Cannons

 

5 IST– 2 Melta

 

5 IST– 2 Melta

 

Dreadnaught – TLLC, Incinerator

 

Land Raider Crusader

[Gornall]

Yeah... If I didn't have 3 LRs laying around, I'd probably think about an IG parent army rather than DH parent as I think the IG version is much stronger. Here's some things I'm thinking about:

 

Imperial Guard

One of the things I'm trying with my army list is not buying any of the DH Rhinos/Chimeras and stealing IG ones from an Inducted Platoon instead. They're like 2 points more expensive (with Smoke) and have more fire points and better firepower. The only bad part is you can't start in them. This gives my ISTs/Inquisitor/Sisters the ability to perform drive-bys with both meltas without turning their transport open-topped. That or even just use them to Mech up even more PAGKs. As long as the Chimeras are moving 6", up to 5 PAGKs can shoot out the top, so it's a slight downgrade in Stormbolter shoots for a much greater amount of mobility/surviability. Chimeras alone I think make taking IG allies worth it.

 

For the IG, since I think other units can better use their rides, I was planning on keeping the Platoon footslogging and fairly cheap. Without the CCS to make the heavy weapons twin-linked, I'm thinking Autocannons/GLs offer the best bang for the buck. Lascannon HWTs are great if you can stick them in a Chimera, but as I plan on commandeering those for melta squads, I think they're too expensive/squishy to take in a DH army. That and who needs IG Lascannons when you have GKLRs. SWT with MGx3 are 65 points, making them 15 points more than the IST for an extra MG (at BS3 though) and less armor. A 18 man IG blob provides a nice objective sitter, needing 5 wounds to force a LD check (and with BoSL, taking it on LD 9-10) and having plenty of extra wounds to protect the Autocannons/GLs. The PCS is basically a free KP and doesn't have any of the good orders (Fire on my Target, Bring it Down!, etc) so I'm thinking just give it an Autocannon or even some flamers for a bit of a counter-charge unit if the PAGKs/GKTs are occupied.

 

Because of the PCS issue, I don't see any reason to bring 2 IG Platoons for most armies. Yes, a second platoon would unlock Leman Russes, but I think I'd rather have a LR anyway given our transportation issues. I also don't see Sentinels as being all that useful... a 35 point AV10 walker with Multi-laser just seems inferior to a 55 point Chimera.

 

Witch Hunters

I'm also thinking about trying a 10 man Sisters squad with VSS accompanied by a barebones Cannoness for extra Faith shenanigans (On paper, it seems like DH suffers from a lack of anti-TEQ shooting, so abusing Divine Guidance seems like a good call). That and a LD 10 BoSL seems like it could help keep the IG squads in line. However, she's basically a free KP (compared to the GKs in LRs). The squad has a higher initial cost than the ISTx5, but has more staying power, better shooting, and can still pack MGx2 for an extra point per model (not counting the VSS). Even without the Cannoness, the ability to attempt an Act of Faith once per game is solid. I haven't really looked at the other WH codex options, so if anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them.

 

I'm trying to take advantage of some of these ideas in my 2000 point list here.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Autocannons are a fantastic weapon and the workhorse weapon of the Imperial Guard IMO. It has the firepower to deal with anything short of a Land Raider or Monolith, especially with it's increased fire rate and range (2 shots at 48" is nice for a BS3 model). It's cheap, versatile, effective, and often overlooked as a threat as opposed to the more obvious lascannons or missile launchers. It also doubles as a fairly effective anti-infantry weapon as well (which is technically what it is) with a much increased range and strength over the heavy bolter, at the cost of (on average) .5 hits per round of firing (1 versus 1.5) according to probability.

 

I still recommend not putting heavy weapons in your base line squads (I arm mine with just an assault weapon, usually the grenade launcher) as I prefer my anti-infantry squads to remain anti-infantry. I find not having a heavy weapon allows me to keep the squad more mobile and aggressive, and better concentrate their firepower on enemy troops instead of tempting me to shoot tanks with them.

 

Since they can't combat squad you then have 8 models picking their noses so the one model with an anti-tank weapon can fire it at BS3. Not a good use of points. I consider you better off to concentrate those heavy weapons in a support squad, where you get 3 heavy weapons for roughly the same cost as a single squad with a single heavy weapon, and then you don't pay any opportunity cost for firing at the tank.

 

This also allows for better objective claiming as you now have more mobile units, that give you options that the enemy can't entirely ignore (20 or 30 models will give anyone a bad day, even if they are guardsmen). It's an approach that most people don't seem to use, but one I've found effective and I always recommend it to people.

[Lord Asher]

I tend to agree with you InqNicole about not including heavy weapons with infantry squads, have you had success with inducted guard in general?

[Gornall]

I guess my Meta makes me scared to run HWTs without a Chimera to hide in. One of my main opponent runs two squads of Scatter-laser War Walkers, so one round of shooting and the HWT goes "poof". It's definately something to consider though. Anyone else use/abuse the Inducted Guard and have some advice?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I tend to agree with you InqNicole about not including heavy weapons with infantry squads, have you had success with inducted guard in general?

I haven't ran any guard forces under the new Codex yet, so my experience with them is slightly dated. I had a great deal of success using guard forces in last years Lucky 13's Campaign (my fiancé and I had a baby two months ago, so I haven't had a lot of gaming time this year). I plan on utilizing an Infantry Platoon a few games instead of my allied GKT w/ 2 psycannons unit with my Witch Hunters to try it out whenever I get to play my Inquisition army again. I'll need to purchase a few more heavy weapon squads to get those autocannon units up (my experience with autocannons thusfar has been when I've had them in the infantry squads themselves, or on my Sentinels). Keep in mind the guardsmen are extra squishy when compared to ANY of our other troop options, and don't dispair when they go up in smoke. Any dead guardsmen mean more Sisters or Grey Knights that didn't die.

 

@Gornall: If the war walkers are shooting your guardsmen, they aren't shooting the rest of your army! Psycannons and melta weapons will make short work of those walkers, even meltaguns or grenade launchers on the regular guardsmen. You can put plasma rifles on them too, but I find that point costed and fluff restrictive for regular guardsmen squads. A unit of assaulting Seraphim should be able to wipe out walkers, or even regular assaulting Grey Knights, with their horde of strength 6 attacks. It's a 'booga booga booga' thing... if they're concentrating on a unit of autocannons, the rest of your army is now safe. Let them destroy a 75 point unit... no big loss really :( In the end, they're only guardsmen, the real threat is everything else!

[Aidoneus]

I glanced through the above responses, and I don't think I'm going to be repeating anyone. If so, apologies.

 

I've had excellent success of late by making a WH base list and allying-in multiple units of DHs. My current 2000pt list is, roughly, as follows:

 

Cannoness: jump pack, inferno pistol, blessed weapon

DH Inq Lord: Psycannon, Psychic Hood

-9 Henchmen: plasma cannon, 2 heavy bolters, 2 sages, 3 mystics, familiar

 

DH Inquisitor: Psycannon

-6 Henchmen: plasma cannon, 2 heavy bolters, sage, 2 mystics

 

10 Sisters: 2 meltas, VSS

-Repressor:

10 Sisters: 2 meltas, VSS

-Repressor

8 PAGK

8 PAGK

 

6 FAGK: 2 psycannons

 

Exorcist

Exorcist

Exorcist

 

 

As you can see, I've got the bare minimum WH requirements in HQ and T, plus the three Exorcists, and then my full complement of DH allies. The various units seems to work really well together, actually, and I have yet to lose a game. The best part, in my mind, is that the list is just so versatile, with so many different tricks up its sleeve, that it can compete well against virtually any enemy list, including (indeed, especially) against many of the better tournament builds that are popular now.

[Uncle Mel]

I think inducted guardsmen are perfect for DH, as few as 25 men for 130 pts or a tricked out platoon with chimeras and heavy weapon teams. They make up for a lack of numbers, transports and anti tank in the DH force itself.

 

Personally though i only use them as bait for scary hth units. the guardsmen form a screen in the frontline backed up by land raiders and pagk with psycannons.

 

another use is the tank hunter, a chimera loaded with a command squad with 4 meltaguns, add chenkov (or was it the other dude?) and have them outflank.

 

lastly mass autocannon hurts anyone.

 

in previous editions many people were against allies, saying they deprived the DH of their power, with the shifting metagame going from 3e to 4e and now 5e, it only adds to the potential.

 

just my thoughts

 

Mel