Any thoughts on using 3 vindicators

[lucifer light bearer]

I was thinking about going to a tournament with a three vindicator heavily armoured list anyone have any experience using three? any effective strategies?

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Just make a phalanx out of em'. You also may want units that would compliments them. Like a MotF or techmarines. hiding behind em'. Also dual AC dreads are good at popping transports so you can drop that demolisher on some infantry. You may also want something that gets more shots like dual HB speeders. For 345 points the triple vindi is hard to beat.

[minigun762]

I was thinking about going to a tournament with a three vindicator heavily armoured list anyone have any experience using three? any effective strategies?

 

They can work well as a speartip to a Rhino/Razorback mechanized force. Use the Rhinos to shield their AV11 side armor and the Vindicator's front armor should hold up fairly well against long range shooting.

 

Get to midfield and start dumping pie plates on the high value targets.

 

I wouldn't expect them to live throughout the game, chances are they're going to get removed fairly quickly, but they should help get your Marines where they need to go and hopefully take some of the enemy with them.

[Giga]

Against opponents who you know will come close to you (like khorne marines, tyranids, salamanders, space wolves, etc.), it's a great idea to put the vindicator(s) in reserve. This way when they arrive you can place wherever they will have the clearest line of fire + they have a basically 30" range. So, fire away. ;)

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

I like using them in reserve, but have to admit to mainly using them as a pair rather than 3.

 

Besides the two uses already suggested (in reserve for 30" deathstorm and as the tip of an armoured speartip) I have also found them uesful as flank guards. The justifiable fear they can create can really funnel an enemy into certain areas. Final tip: Be aware where you put your drop pods if you are using multiple vindicators - they have a mystical ability to scatter horribly towards friendly formations in competitive play :rolleyes:

[Brother_Dan'l]

My warning also goes to their magical scatters. If you are planning on close assault style play then multiple Vindicators will very quickly become useless. We've all seen it, the moment you fire the pie plate within 6-8" of your troops the shell is drawn to them as if by electro-magnet.

 

If that is your plan replace one of them with an AC/HB Predator. You'll still be able to dish out the dice, but without the fear of collateral damage. For BA players it would be a Baal. Though we tend to reverse the proportion of Vindis to Preds. I've used it myself and found it to work rather well.

[Rumour Control]

Ive just purchased the apoc box of vindicators for my death guard and also im hopeing to take them to a tournament soon. The plague marines are all in rhinos and a couple of daemon princes. Ill be keeping an eye on this topic for useful tips.

[Ethrion]

If you're gonna take vindicators then yes, it's best to take 3, certainly 1 is not enough.

 

Instead of having the Vindicators leading the line with the rhinos protecting the flanks, have the rhinos take the lead and act as a shield. The Vindicators will be able to fire through the gaps between them and will get a 4+ cover save.

 

Deploy 12" onto the table > Turn 1 rush 12" forward with the rhinos and pop smoke > the Vindicators rush 12" up behind the rhinos > keep the rest of your army in and about the same area protecting the flanks. Now you have the bulk of your army dominating the midfield which is where the battles are usually won or lost under 5th ed.

 

Other units that would complement 3 Vindicators would be 3 Rhinos with 10 tactical marines in each with flamer and multi-melta, dreadnoughts as solid cqc tarpits to protect your marines in the rhinos from assault and landspeeders as fast response multi-melta carrying AT vehicles.

[minigun762]

Other then screening with Rhinos, how do you protect them against Termicide or Sternguard Melta death squads?

[Vedrial]

Other then screening with Rhinos, how do you protect them against Termicide or Sternguard Melta death squads?

 

I'd suggest popping smoke on turn 1, and shooting down fast attack anti-tank asap.

 

Without fast AT, your opponents will use a disproportionate amount of firepower to bring down the Vinicators, allowing your transports freedom to manuever.

[minigun762]

Other then screening with Rhinos, how do you protect them against Termicide or Sternguard Melta death squads?

 

I'd suggest popping smoke on turn 1, and shooting down fast attack anti-tank asap.

 

Without fast AT, your opponents will use a disproportionate amount of firepower to bring down the Vinicators, allowing your transports freedom to manuever.

 

Thats true, but it doesn't help much against the deepstriking Melta squads that many people are using to counter Land Raider Rushes.

3 Terminators with 3 Combi-Melta are only 105 points, cheaper then any Vindicator and with the slightest bit of luck, they'll destroy the tank (or atleast immobilized or destroy its weapon which is almost as bad) and there is very little you can do to stop it outside of manipulating the reserve dice or giving no place to deep strike safely.

[Ethrion]

Other then screening with Rhinos, how do you protect them against Termicide or Sternguard Melta death squads?

 

I'd suggest popping smoke on turn 1, and shooting down fast attack anti-tank asap.

 

Without fast AT, your opponents will use a disproportionate amount of firepower to bring down the Vinicators, allowing your transports freedom to manuever.

 

Thats true, but it doesn't help much against the deepstriking Melta squads that many people are using to counter Land Raider Rushes.

3 Terminators with 3 Combi-Melta are only 105 points, cheaper then any Vindicator and with the slightest bit of luck, they'll destroy the tank (or atleast immobilized or destroy its weapon which is almost as bad) and there is very little you can do to stop it outside of manipulating the reserve dice or giving no place to deep strike safely.

 

There's always a chance of that but as long as you keep everything in a tight group (thereby denying as much room to deepstrike as possible) you should be alright. 3 rhinos in front of 3 vindicators with, let's say, 2-3 dreadnoughts behind them protecting the rear and acting as a counter charge unit. You've also got your fast attack landspeeders to protect the flanks from assault.

 

Whatever units you actually chose to accompany the vindicators just remember to make sure you are doing the whole Roman turtle formation thing. Keep everything close and in support range of each other. If everything that needs it pops smoke on T1 then you should be alright for surviving and now your in the middle and dominating the key area of the battlefield.

 

p.s. Lovin' the "termicide" usage!

[GreatEscape_13]

Three are pretty devastating and will draw your opponent's attention very, very quickly. I prefer to go with 2 vindicators and a predator (autocannon turret with lascannons). Gives a bit more options, I find, especially in terms of easing the need for the vindicators to be tank hunters (which they do well, but they're best for crushing mobs of well-armored foes).

 

Cheers.

[BattleBrotherValorus]

To have fun with the DS melta death units, take 1 LS Storm w Heavy Flamer with a 5 man Scout squad, PF, Combiflamer and let the Extra couple of D6 scatter do the work of disrupting thouse Deep strikers for you.

[The Emporer's Divine Fists]

I don't know about using 3 vindicators. However, a great way to use them is to defend an objective in a seize ground type mission.

 

What I mean by that is when it is your turn to place an objective, do not place it in cover on your side of the board, but put it in the middle of the board where no cover is near it. Then during deployment deploy your vidicator, or vindicators in cover just in range of that objective. That way when your oppenent comes to capture that objective you just lay down the templates right on them and they are not able to receive cover.

 

I cannot claim this strategy as my own but I have used it and it works well. There is a video on UTUBE, I don't have the exact URL, but just do a search for Vindicator tactics and it will come up.

[minigun762]

I don't know about using 3 vindicators. However, a great way to use them is to defend an objective in a seize ground type mission.

 

What I mean by that is when it is your turn to place an objective, do not place it in cover on your side of the board, but put it in the middle of the board where no cover is near it. Then during deployment deploy your vidicator, or vindicators in cover just in range of that objective. That way when your oppenent comes to capture that objective you just lay down the templates right on them and they are not able to receive cover.

 

I cannot claim this strategy as my own but I have used it and it works well. There is a video on UTUBE, I don't have the exact URL, but just do a search for Vindicator tactics and it will come up.

 

Its a good idea, I've heard of Thousand Sons doing the same thing. Deny the opponent a Cover save and you can hang out in open ground all you want (to get good LOS) since you bring your own save with you.

[Redbaron997]

Have players found 3 Vindicators durable enough? You can go ahead and bet that at least one wont get a shoot off, but do they ever stay around long enough to cause a serious hurting?

[Marshal Wilhelm]

"I think you guys have pointed it out already. Combinations are what can give you a sum total greater than it's parts.

 

As a BT player in 1500 pts battles I run a tri-las Pred, Vindi and Dread (MM and fist or Ironclad if my foe is feeling generous). I also have a Marshall and EC.

 

The Vindi gets people excited. It pops Nobz etc and does okay against big tanks (easier to scatter hit) and infantry. Because of the kill potential, it gets attention.

 

The Pred is chosen as BT can't have Devs. I want long range to hit armour and 'encourage' my foe forward to deal with it. The long range and deployment zone anchor gives my RUNNING army a platform to work from. Because it hides in the shadow of Vindi's reputation it gets less attention.

 

The Dread is chosen for a few reasons. I want to run three Armour choices. This divides fire and causes indecision in enemy player. I also want a third leader for my 3 offence Crusader squads. The 2 ICs give needed high WS, S, I, A power weapon attacks to the Initiates. The Dread also gives this.

 

I've had games when they've not killed much, but then I've had games when they did well.

 

None of these vehicles are guaranteed heroes each game but the combination generally works well.

 

If I traded the Pred I don't think I could rely on a second Vindi to take out tanks. 1 in 3 to hit with it's cannon.... that's Ork territory.

If I traded the Vindi for another Pred I don't think I could justify another anti-Armour choice. The potential return is halved, the two are taking work from one another. Also tri-las Preds are not cheap....

I want the Dreadnought too. A chaplain in the squad might kill as much but would never draw fire from my two tanks. I would also miss the melta shot & I4 S10 attacks....

 

 

For me, it's about the combination."

 

*I know it might be lazy, and quoting myself could be narcissistic :wub: but I thought I would lift this from the AMICUS AEDES 'Why no-one uses Predators'-topic. I like my answer ^_^ and feel it could be worth considering....

[Grey Mage]

Other then screening with Rhinos, how do you protect them against Termicide or Sternguard Melta death squads?

Infantry.

 

Support your advancing armor with infantry, as in real life. If they cant get within 6" of a Vindicator without suffering a DS misshap they certainly cant melta it to death can they?

 

And as the vindicator cannon is decently high up, it fires right over their heads... no LOS issues at all.

 

Of course, Only in Death, Wolf89, and Vrox among others have been going off on the values of 2+ vindicators for longer than I can recall rightly.

 

Personally, Id rather mix my HS options up a bit... Im partial to Long Fangs, and Whirlwinds.

[glsn]

Another way to deal with termicide would be elite DH Inquisitor w/ 2x Mystics and units nearby with weapons that can take out Terminators. Personally, I would splurg for a LR for them (dedicated transport) and use that to cover one side of the formation.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Vindicators are my babies. :wub:

 

I usually bring two, and a good amount of the time bring three to the table top. The fear they instill is a great asset. The especially nice thing about using Vindicators is that they keep Land Speeders safe by being on the table. No one ever seems to shoot at a 60 point dual heavy bolter platform when there's a Demolisher cannon kicking around! Dreads are also a fun addition to a Vindie list, especially Dropclads. A pair of those means your opponent has a nasty choice: stick around in their backfield and deal with the Dropclads, giving time for Vindies to move up and blast 'em, or attack the Vindies, thus entering Demolisher range while being surrounded by the Dropclads.

 

A common sort of Vindie list that I use goes something like this:

 

MotF, power weapon, digi-weapons, bike

 

Ironclad, Drop Pod, dual heavy flamers

 

Ironclad, Drop Pod, dual heavy flamers

 

10 Tac Marines, PF, flamer, MM, Rhino

 

10 Tac Marines, PF, flamer, PC, Rhino

 

10 Scouts (BP/CCW)

 

2 Land Speeders, dual heavy bolters

 

Land Speeder, MM/HF

 

Land Speeder, MM/HF

 

Vindicator

 

Vindicator

 

Vindicator

 

 

 

Pretty straightforward overall, it uses four different types of threatening armor to play the enemy into a poor position. Vindies and Dropclads are the workhorses of the army, both can seriously toast infantry while still posing a pretty decent threat to enemy armor. The two pincer the enemy as said above. The Scouts are there to lend their weight to the 'Clads in the backfield, once again driving the enemy towards the Vindies. MM/HF Speeders seek out the real armor killers in an enemy's list, to give the enemy fewer tools to deal with the Vindies. Dual HB Speeders simply survive better with the amount of armor in the list. Tacs mop up whatever survived the initial Dropclad/Scout attack, and fill holes in the line if I'm dealing with a real horde or sick armor list. The MotF helps keep those precious Vindies alive a little longer, and like the Scouts herds enemies nearer to my really big guns.

[deepstrike]

Against opponents who you know will come close to you (like khorne marines, tyranids, salamanders, space wolves, etc.), it's a great idea to put the vindicator(s) in reserve. This way when they arrive you can place wherever they will have the clearest line of fire + they have a basically 30" range. So, fire away. :)

 

this is a great way to use one regardless of the opponent during a objective based mission, but against close in armies then there is no better way to use them. Surprise!

[deepstrike]

land speeder storm could help with termicide. If they scatter outside of 6 inches then the combimeltas are not near as good and they will be bunched up for one of the best weapons for anti ds termi work. Thats if you want to use one and you are a regular codex marine. tac squads deployed around them to keep enemy out of 6 inch range, or 12 inch range for multimelta strikes, works fairly well if you are already in position to fire and dont have to move anymore. More dangerous are oblits dsing in behind them if with 12 then multimelta if outside of 12 then lascannon.

[Redbaron997]

I have heard a horror story once where a enemy was a bit to close and my friend shoot at it with the cannon from 6 inches away. (was assaulted but survived and risked a shoot instead of moving 12 away as they woulda assaulted again. Ended up the blast template scattered ONTO the Vindicator, thus killing himself. My friend said the driver knew he was gonna get killed and didnt want the opponent to capture the vehicles so it could be used against the Imperium, seemed as Heroic of an excuse for a suicidial crew as I can think of haha.

[happybounce]

Vindicators are my babies. :)

 

I usually bring two, and a good amount of the time bring three to the table top. The fear they instill is a great asset. The especially nice thing about using Vindicators is that they keep Land Speeders safe by being on the table. No one ever seems to shoot at a 60 point dual heavy bolter platform when there's a Demolisher cannon kicking around! Dreads are also a fun addition to a Vindie list, especially Dropclads. A pair of those means your opponent has a nasty choice: stick around in their backfield and deal with the Dropclads, giving time for Vindies to move up and blast 'em, or attack the Vindies, thus entering Demolisher range while being surrounded by the Dropclads.

 

A common sort of Vindie list that I use goes something like this:

 

MotF, power weapon, digi-weapons, bike

 

Ironclad, Drop Pod, dual heavy flamers

 

Ironclad, Drop Pod, dual heavy flamers

 

10 Tac Marines, PF, flamer, MM, Rhino

 

10 Tac Marines, PF, flamer, PC, Rhino

 

10 Scouts (BP/CCW)

 

2 Land Speeders, dual heavy bolters

 

Land Speeder, MM/HF

 

Land Speeder, MM/HF

 

Vindicator

 

Vindicator

 

Vindicator

 

 

 

Pretty straightforward overall, it uses four different types of threatening armor to play the enemy into a poor position. Vindies and Dropclads are the workhorses of the army, both can seriously toast infantry while still posing a pretty decent threat to enemy armor. The two pincer the enemy as said above. The Scouts are there to lend their weight to the 'Clads in the backfield, once again driving the enemy towards the Vindies. MM/HF Speeders seek out the real armor killers in an enemy's list, to give the enemy fewer tools to deal with the Vindies. Dual HB Speeders simply survive better with the amount of armor in the list. Tacs mop up whatever survived the initial Dropclad/Scout attack, and fill holes in the line if I'm dealing with a real horde or sick armor list. The MotF helps keep those precious Vindies alive a little longer, and like the Scouts herds enemies nearer to my really big guns.

 

I've been toying with the idea of running 2-3 vindis in a 2000 point army; chances are I'd run 3 HS and a Land Raider as dedicated transport for some Assault termies and a librarian. Only problem I can see is the few troop choices. Do you have problems only running 30 marines?