Doom and Gloom in the Fang...?

[Decoy]

Okay. I know it's been a while since I delivered a meaningful post, and an even longer time since I made my own thread, so please bear with me if it's all rough-around-the-edges.

 

As I look through the Fang, especially the New Codex thread, I can't help but notice that everyone seems to be lamenting what is lost. Ten-man Drop Pods, and Land Raider difficulties are two of the more prominent issues at hand, as well as the apparent "useless"ness of Blood Claws and the inability to max out a Grey Hunter squad, then add a Lord and a Wolf Guard with Assault Cannon.

 

I'd like to make something perfectly clear, and be it my own opinion, I'd imagine that I'm not the only one to hold it.

 

 

This apparent focus on being able to cram as much firepower into a Drop Pod or Land Raider is NOT the Wolfy way. The Way of the Wolf is that of the patient yet determined hunter, weakening and outmaneuvering it's prey before moving in with a vital, vicious lunge to the throat. Since when did you see a Wolf charge headlong at the nearest enemy without backup, flanking, or any sort of obvious advantage, even though he has REALLY BIG TEETH? The size of the gun (or in this case the size of the squad with attachments) doesn't mean jack, and I think deep down, a fair few of you know it.

 

We have, potentially, 150 point ten-man squads with a massive potential close combat ability. "What's that? I CAN'T PUT ASSAULT CANNON WIFF DEM AN STILL HAZ SPESHUL?!" Oh my GOD! That assault cannon is going to CRUSH your army build if you don't have it! Don't rely on one squad to do everything. Don't rely on every squad to be able to mow down an enemy army on it's own, both ranged and assault. You know what? If you want to shoot, THROW that assault cannon into the squad, and enjoy every rending shot possible. But take out the special weapon guy and suck it up. You're replacing a flamer with an assault cannon. ANYONE else in ANY Chapter would kill to have that opportunity, and instead, all I hear is complaining.

 

You want to put a Lord with Grey Hunters or Blood Claws in a Pod? DO IT. Don't whine because you don't get your "Free" stuff, because the "Free" stuff isn't free. You pay the price of one man to get it, and instead of that one man, you can throw in a lord with MASSIVE combat bonuses or a priest with MASSIVE anti-psychic powers. Pick one. Flamer/Meltagun, or Fangs of the World Wolf.

 

 

Now, I know, that comes off as harsh. It's going to get a bit harsher. Brace yourself.

 

 

Canis. What can I say about Canis...? Yeah, he's not the greatest of models, if he's supposed to be riding a wolf. Not only is his pose relatively passive and generally almost friendly, but the wolf itself looks like it ran nosefirst into the back end of a Land Raider at top speed a few times. That, and it MAY have had it's legs cut off halfway down and is running along on little stump-feet.

 

All I can say about that is that we are getting a new model. Sure, it's ugly as sin to some people. To others, it just looks goofy (myself included). However, that doesn't stop you from playing the CHARACTER. Convert the model. Hell, don't even buy the model, and scratch-build it instead. If you ask me, it'd be a challenge and one of the greatest opportunities for alternative design and creative license that the game has seen. How many different "Calgar" models do you see? Not many at all. I'd expect almost every true Wolf to have one variation of Canis or another (those that choose to play him, at any rate), each one different than the last, and each individualized. You know, almost like a real person. So yeah, the model sucks. Convert it, make it better, stronger, faster, and harder.

 

 

To those of you who think that the idea of Wolf Riders is stupid? You're entitled to that opinion, and I respect it. No one is forcing you to play with that concept. I can see it on the headlines of the FANG NEWS WEEKLY today; Odd, smelly Wolves ridden by odd, smelly Fenrisan Wolves, details on page 15." ... Or whatever that equivalent in Runes is. Yeah. It's silly, to say the least, coming straight out of the bowels of the Fang. So let me posit something to you. I'm going to put it in bold and italic, maybe red, just to catch the eye.

 

THE 13TH COMPANY HAS BEEN UPDATED.

 

Wolf Guard as Troops. Fenrisian Wolves at 8 points a model. Mark of the Wulfen. Sagas that ANNIHILATE enemies in close combat. Wolf-Riders that excel in close combat. It is ALL THERE to make either an All Cavalry list, or an All Wolf Guard list, or... Dare I say it? A 13th Company list.

 

Model Drop Pods as Warp Gates.

Wolves that outflank or Stealth or Fleet.

Wolf Guard (ten per squad), 2 A base, with Wolf Claws or Mark of the Wulfen.

Lone Wolves.

Rune Priest popping out of said Warp Gate with a squad of nine "Storm Claws" (Wolf Guard), opening fire with special weapons, a Combi-Melta maybe, and a Psychic Power that EATS EVERYFREAKINTHING IN A 24" LINE.

 

The 13th Company is not only IN this Dex, but they have been UPDATED. We don't need the models; we need the drive, determination, and desire. I know no 13th Company player would willingly cast aside their army, and in this way, in THIS way, they need not.

 

13th Company Fenrisan Wolves; 10,000 year old Chaos wolves, born and bred in the Warp. Yeah, they'll look a little funny, they'll have more a taste for meat, they'll be bigger, hardier, faster, capable of supporting a Power Armor Wolf with gusto and enthusiasm. They charge forth from the Warp into the lines of the enemy, bearing their handlers and masters to the unstoppable SLAUGHTER of all of the enemies of Russ and the Emperor!

 

 

Just because an army list doesn't say "13th Company" doesn't mean that we're dead. And just because something is in the Space Wolf codex doesn't necessarily mean it came from the Fang (Leman Russ tank?)

 

I ask you, humbly, to quit putting down the Wolf Riders, and to quit worrying about what negatives our list will have. It is -balanced.- Quit getting upset because you can't minmax a squad to kingdom come. Quit whining about what you -could- have, and what other chapters -do- have, and what you think we -deserve.-

 

Be a man, stand up, stand tall, stand PROUD, Space Wolf! Your own army has expanded, with the great heroes Bjorn and Njal returning in all their glory, and with amazing new rising stars taking their places among the ranks! Your 13th Company Brethren were not forgotten!

 

Some may be disappointed with what they see as "Useless" "New" things, and I ask those people. To you, I direct this.

 

Would you deny your 13th Company brothers the update they most assuredly deserve?

 

*Flashes a feral grin, cracking his knuckles* Your brothers stand beside you, and Russ watches over you. Fear not the coming of the darkness, for that darkness will not cast a pall over the Wolves. The only eve that will fall upon the Wolfbrethren will be that which we deliver to our enemies, in the dead of night, their screams of terror and cries for mercy ignored!

 

Flash of fang and fleet claw, HAIL the new Codex, HAIL Leman of the Russ, HAIL the Emperor, and ALL HAIL THE SPACE WOLVES!

 

AWROOOOOOOOOO!

[Pidge]

Good post. I agree 100%. I am looking forward to the new codex, and looking forward to a new style of play. I am disappointed in the 10 man DP and 10 man LR, but only because I think GW should make all the vehicles the same across the board, but what the hell.

 

I'm not thrilled with Canis either, but I may convert him, have you seen the Avatar's of War Dire wolf? I'm not sure if it'll be big enough, but I'm planning on using them as Fenrisian wolves.

 

I really like your ideas for the 13th Company, especially the Drop Pods as Warp Gates (but why would they have a storm bolter... nevermind, warp lightning!). I already have a SW army painted up, and I plan on expanding it, and not starting a 13th Company army, but your ideas sound cool!

 

Plus, and you've forgotten one detail.

 

The codex isn't out yet. we have a lot of people telling us whats in it, but none of us have it in our grubby little fingers. None of us have put a list together and played it. I for one will be waiting until I've played a few games before I pass any sort of judgement.

 

Thats just my $0.02

[LPetersson]

My £0.02 is that we don't have the codex yet, so all those who are wailing and gnashing their teeth ought to chillax a little. The 10 man drop pod thing could easily be a misprint.

 

Until we have an actual Codex in our hands there is no cause for alarm. Well, except for over Canis, he makes me cry a little on the inside...

[Growler67]

Agreed. There seems to be quite a bit of "nit picking" on what can be percieved as minor details. It is what it is (though many of us haven't seen it yet). Accept it and as stated by some in other threads, adapt to it. If it REALLY upsets you that much, the door is open and no one has lashed a chain around your neck. Choose what fits you and your "style" best and don't choose what doesn't.

[Hfran Morkai]

I'm looking forward to it. I've always been a fluff before rules guy as my lists aren't really built for competition but of things I like/think fit. Then it's the models and finally the rules so those kits have me crying with their goodness, and I sense a plastic Iron Priest with that thunder hammer, even if he is tactically invalid he will have a place in my company.

 

Remember, no plan survives contact with the enemy. We shall wait and see what uor new dex brings, I don't mind too much about the alleged loss of capacity in standard raiders or drop pods as the units I will be fitting in these would be ten men anyway.

[Vampyrer0me0]

This is a great post. I have been playing more or less the same list since i started playing wolves 13 years ago. I occasionally look at newer players who try and min max the army and shake my head. Its funny that the ones who say they are the best play with the list that is the most cheesed out and then cry doom when the list is changed. Two weeks later they figure out the newest way to cheese something out( same army or new one depnends on person) and carry on with the cycle.

[Warhorse47]

Well said Decoy!

[OnlyInDeath]

As usual, Decoy and I see eye to eye. I actually am quite happy with the new dex, and will most likely use it to make a very mobile great company to support my mech great company. As far as the limits to the transports, whatever. It just means I will be forced to have more bodies on the field. Nothing wrong w/ that. The strength of the grey hunter squads (with bolters) lays in the fact that they can disembark from their transport, blast the crap out of something, and then competently recieve a charge. oh wait, they can do that just as well if not better (I'm sorry, but eating 4 plasma gun shots plus 16 bolter shots will weaken up just about anything, and a potential SEVEN rending attacks plus a PW/PF means they will do just fine in CC.

 

Longfangs will be cheaper (cheaper weaps, cheaper base points) so will be usable IMO opinion again (if what I hear is correct, they take C:SM prices for weaps, so you are looking at 5 heavy bolters in a 150 pt squad, yeah, i think I can handle that).

 

The transport options will allow you to have base units that can be used with tactics (gasp!) to hold objectives and provide amazing fire support bases, while you have IC's that can come in and absolutely own almost anything they touch, in a unit of WG. lets not forget that WOLFGUARD WILL STILL HAVE A VARIETY OF WEAPON LOADOUTS. i think with all the bellyaching, people are losing sight of the amazing customization that we still have at our disposals. While all other armies have been neutered on the customization front, we have units that have an entire page (yes, a full codex PAGE of weapon options).

 

So in the end, as Lord Ragnarok has said many times, you will need to learn to adapt. this is a silly strong codex that the rest of the marine chapters will cry about because they are going to come up envious. Dont focus on what is lost or what will push adaptation. This is a codex for the thinking player, using all of the options available to your advantage. If you want a no brain, bash 'em in the face codex, there's plenty of options out there. but this is a true space wolf dex. The best units, equipped with the best wargear, outnumbered 2:1. I personally wouldn't have it any other way and I am looking forward to smiting my foes with cunning and balls out aggressiveness.

[bravelybravesirrobin]

Overall I am very happy with the new codex. I became so bored with the old one I dropped my wolves for the better part of an entire edition. The new one seems exciting with lots of new cool stuff viable builds and decent balancing tweaks.

 

My only objections are the reduction of cc weaponry in squads and the silliness that I need 10 men to get the special weapon but then can't get a WG.

 

The former because it makes BC's very weak compared to how they were and considering how GH got better and cheaper and BC's got weaker and more expensive it makes BC's look a little redundant. I do think they'll be useful as force multiplier with an IC character and at last jump pack troops are a viable choice but that seems like a bad design choice.

 

The latter I dislike because again it is bad design plain and simple. GW doesn't want us to min max so they made it that we need 10 men to get 2 spec weps. That is fine and dandy but they then also dropped our access to special cc weapons making the WG almost mandatory. Meaning that second special weapon will almost never get taken. I know some people will take it and are glad the option is there but for me giving us an option but then creating circumstances that mean the option can't be taken most of the time is just silly. Again it is bad design.

 

I don't want a minmaxed uber army of death where one squad wins the game on its own.

 

I do want, and have received, an exciting well written codex with flexibility, balance and cool new stuff. I am overall very happy with what I have seen. This is a discussion forum and I'm perfectly entitled to voice a complaint where I feel a mistake has been made otherwise we'd all just be constantly cheering and there wouldn't be much "discussing" actually taking place.

[obs0l3te]

I totally agree!!!!!

 

I've been playing warhammer 40k for a long time now. Since Rogue Trader just about.

 

I have a Original Rogue Trader space wolf (mind you space wolves were nothign like they are now) that is litterally a giant ball of paint.

 

 

In this time i've seen alot of "Bloodclaws" come to the space wolves because of what they can do.

 

This book is 10 some years in the making, every single time they release the wolves, it paves a new path for all the other books.

 

I'm impressed, end of story...

 

...and Canis does look Goofy..... i'll wait till I get the model though.

[Grey Mage]

Part of the problem I think is that people keep thinking of wolves as a mechanized force....

 

And they dont have to be. Ive played footslogging wolves for most of the last two editions, and frankly I find them very effective. You want two specials and a seargent? Lose the rhino, or do what half the codex boys do anyways- use it as moving cover.

 

I think its weird that they changed drop pods and landraiders again, and sad thatll Ill have to work harder to find ways of putting my HQs into a DP force... but it probly wont change my playstyle much at all.

[clanfield]

i have also been a wolf since rt days iv fought some huge and fun games over the last 22 years ,wolves its all in the fluff and paint for me its fun to be competative but thease last 10 iv enjoyed not being so up-to-date and still pulling victory from the bag

 

a basic fact is people dont like change its scarey it makes you think takes you out of your roasted elk and mead zone in short its a great to have fresh tricks to think on or lists to balance

 

im so happy the new dex is capabale of fielding more than 1 type of army list (mech etc) to my mind the wolves of russ have always been flexibale like this were good in all aspects of the game not just assult also i cannt wait to see the new art and finaly read some new fluff and just look at that gourgous new sprue (drools)

 

now is our time were on the eve of the glorys of old for one last time the pack hunts

 

we are the wolf that stalks the stars in the sky,and swollows the star fire ,we hide in the dark when the light is gone ,the light is within us ,foes burn in our passing

[Spacefrisian]

I haven't seen in the new dex yet (as many others here i guess), and i don't realy care if our transport only has room for 10. Those 2 place are reserved for ale you know.

 

As for Canis if his rules are nice i'll just reconvert my Wolfnought, many others have made a similar thing so i guess we will be seeing more of those in the future.

[Vassakov]

Well, whats becoming very clear to me from the rumours and leaks is that I will have to redesign my entire philosophy of play. My keynote strategy (6 man, well equipped GH packs in Razorbacks) has just, I believe, been utter invalidated. However, my packs (3 of them) ran to 188. Assuming the points cost we have heard are accurate and the rumour of "free" weapons is accurate, I could now run 10 GHs in a Rhino for roughly the same.

 

Frankly, I cannot wait. ;)

 

Blood Claws appear to have been made slightly worse in comparison to other options. The effectiveness of 14 of them with a pack leader and a HQ in a LRC is likely to be just as potent, but will cost slightly more.

 

The odd decisions over DP and LR capacity irks me slightly, but this is soley because I want consistency over the books. Personally I felt the change was unnecessary in the first place - how many harnesses are there in a DP again?

 

I never liked the idea of the Canis Wolfborn and I don't think the model or rules fits my army. I welcome any new model and am sure other Wolf Lords for find a use for it, but it's simply not for me. Similarly I'll be using "Counts As" for Grimnar and Njal with my own models - this is again, a matter of personal preference rather than any reflection on the models.

 

Generally, I think this is looking fantastic - and Decoy is absolutely right. We are the Wolves, and we've on balance never had it better.

[Jonny Wolf]

Well said brother.

 

As I scroll through the posts in this thread, I see alot of grey beards weighing in...I hope the pups are listening.

[Mr. Danvers]

Well written. I wholeheartedly agree with it.

 

As far as the transport numbers issue goes, I'll believe it when I see a page scan or read it in my store's preview copy. I was cheesing it up with 4AC terms and a WGBL in a pod in our current codex, and it is broken and unfair really. If I'm being honest, we probably have ourselves to blame for the changes to pods. We were probably meant to keep the custom wargear options and this is the price we pay for it. No more 4AC units coming out of nowhere.....especially in an army that's rumored to be able to field all TDA. 10m GH with twin plasmas out of a pod is hardly something to cry about. Nor is dropping 2 meltas right behind their tanks without any risk of them teleporting into terrain and being lost in the warp.

 

Yeah, the C:SM will have some funky new toys that only they can use, but we'll get funky new toys that only we can use. I don't particularly want to start pulling those extra PFs off my BC units and remodel them, but I'm bloody glad to see that we're keeping Beserk Charge. I didn't want BC's basically being reduced down to comments from other players of 'oh, so they're like Death Company, just not as good cause they don't get Rending?', especially when my army fluff says that my Great Company has a lot of them to refill their ranks.

 

Build a list and play it several times, then play it in a competitive environment several times. If it never works, THEN you can whinge about the things we lose.

 

I've been waiting for this update for YEARS. I'm glad to see we're getting one. 150pts for a 10m GH Squad? Um....yes please. Granted it's a rumour, I'd gladly save those points from the previous version. Besides, if you go look in C:SM, you'll see that they pay 170 for a 10m squad. So, in theory we're saving 20 points a squad before we add upgrades beyond our two free special weapons. Our GH squads can move and fire all the time as well because we don't have those heavy weapons to carry, which is important in a very objective heavy format of game.

 

Do not fret brothers! In gaming, changes are never welcomed as we'd all like to keep those tooled up units, but have faith and you shall be rewarded!

 

 

 

P.S. - The Canis model DOES suck, but I'll be damned if I'm passing up an opportunity to convert some totally awesome model to use the rules!

 

Mr.Danvers - still wondering where the sculptor for Canis did his research....The Disney anamatronics studio? Maybe......

[Hfran Morkai]

Fortunately my squads were armed with power weapons and to distinguish I will simply paint the ones counting as close combat weapons boltgun metal so the power weapons remain DA green, thereby reducing the need to maul my current mini's oobviously for those who took powerfists on troopers this won't be as easy.

[Vlk]

Even though I'm a mere pup, I understand that we need to adapt and to use all those magnificent goodies this dex brings us. I love the idea of maximal customization, of cheaper and perhaps finally viable Long Fangs (which I'll probably finally start fielding just for the fluffiness), all those Wolf Guards, new sprues and Skyclaws (yaaaaaay) and so on.

 

The reason I rant about the Drop Pod and LR capacity is just that it's simply silly and unjustified - yes, I'm aware of the differences between us and codex boys, but that doesn't mean our vehicle (which is exactly the same as theirs) should be nerfed. Anyway, I'm prepared to let it go peacefully if there is clearly stated in the codex that we're so much bigger/stronger/shoulder wide than ultramarines or that those 2 seats were taken by a keg of ale granting all the transported troopers "Fearless" status :P

 

About Canis... well... yeah, it's weird to have a guy with lightning claws riding a cow but what the hell, maybe I'll finally learn to scratch-build.

[clanfield]

i see the transport issue as guff any way rhinos 10 razor backs 6 land raiders 10 drop pods 10 thats the way it always was if you ask me the writers of the basic codex space marines in an attempt to write the wrongs of the evil 4th eddition codex made an error the guy was blinded by the shining blue of ultramar and ignored the game established standards of the past quiet ironic for the smurfs:)

 

and dont get me on predators they should still have a 6 capacity

 

in short weve got what weve got enjoy i will

[Kenmichi]

I'm glad someone shares the same thoughts as I. In one form or another I've mentioned everything you've mentioned, minus the bit about the 13th Company.

 

Here here!

[Stryke]

Still..... going to miss my 13th company :tu: , using the new rules will be very interesting though.

[Hotspur]

I've been playing wolves for a number of years now, and all I can say in response to this thread is that I completely agree.

 

Personally, I think it's a bit silly to not expect some major changes; it's been ten years! We Wolves, like all other armies, are continually evolving, so if there are changes--major or minor--I welcome them.

 

I haven't seen the new dex yet, but when I do, I will enjoy it like a stein of golden ale!

 

For Russ!

[Loopz]

Even though Im way more layed back about people bitching than decoy is, I also agree :tu:

We have new stuff, even if you dont like the new thingy as much as the new thingy atleast you have a new thingy! Actually a book of new thingys!

 

Sure, its sad to see that 13th co has become a hassle to create, but then again that has happened most armies with alternate lists. Look at Chaos. They went from having a very good codex(fluff and option wise, not talking power) to having an, In my opinion, outright dull codex.

[Growler67]

Sure, its sad to see that 13th co has become a hassle to create, but then again that has happened most armies with alternate lists. Look at Chaos. They went from having a very good codex(fluff and option wise, not talking power) to having an, In my opinion, outright dull codex.

 

Agreed. Chaos got shafted and yes we have new stuff. After 10 years you didn't all really think there wouldn't be some rebalancing did you?

[Lord Ragnarok]

When you have a new dex released expect.....

 

1. that there will be changes, some of which you will not like.

2. it to do more/less than a previous dex (maybe rebalancing)

3. some fluff to change

4. Know, that your dex will not be immune to broad changes (25 pt fists), reduction of war gear.

5. Units that GW wants to sell, may get a extra buff (bills to pay, people to pay, profits to be made)

6. That you will need to adapt your forces(In other words, Man up! or Woman up! or Wolf up!) and may not use stuff that you recently, finely painted/modelled (this just happened to me, but I'm still a happy camper :) )

7. If it is so bad it makes you raise your temper, forces you to make other SW players corn flakes yellowy, then type a nice letter to GW stating how certain changes are displeasing and (more importantly) will not allow you to spend money.