Are Dreadnoughts Fearless

[Thantoes]

This is a question in 2 parts.

 

The first part is: Are dreadnoughts fearless?

 

I am undecided as a dreadnought does not have fearless in its entry> However, in the walker section is states that the dreadnought never takes a leadership or moral check if it looses combat. However it also does not take a wound which is a main feature of the Fearless rule.

 

I am tending towards it not being fearless which brings me to the second part.

 

Can dreads outflank with Khan?

 

His rule states that units with combat tactics exchange it for the outflank USR. The entry for combat tactics say that any non-fearless unit may take it. Does this apply to the dread?

 

I really cant decide.

[nurglez]

I would say no, Dreads are not fearless, as they are vehicles and have no LD characteristic.

 

I would also say that as dreads do not come with combat tactics, they cannot outflank as they do not have the skill to swap.

[Legatus]

The entry for combat tactics say that any non-fearless unit may take it.

The entry actually says that any unit non-fearless unit with this special rule can make use of it. Not all Space Marine units automatically have that special rule. They need to have it listed under their "special rules". Almost all Space Marine infantry units have that special rules. The Legion of the Damned does not have that special rule, for example. Servitors do not have that rule either.

[Arikel]

The only vehicles that get outflank from Khan are dedicated transports, which dreadnoughts are not/ Though it would be cool to give one the abilty to carry a combat squad piggy back on his shoulders;)

[DarkGuard]

The answer to both of your questions are no and no.

 

Dreadnought's are not Fearless, they are a vehicle and therefore have no armour value. They don't take leadership tests for loosing combat and don't take No Retreat wounds (or hits) as well. In a tank shock they don't take a morale test and can choose to do Death of Glory or brace themselves for the tank ramming them.

 

For the second question, Dreadnought's do not have Combat Tactics, and only units with the Combat Tactics special rule can trade it for Outflank, while their Dedicated vehicles are also affected by this rule. The only Chapter Tactics that affect a Dreadnought are Vulkan's (and that is situational).

[Frosty the Pyro]

Everyone is correct, Dreads are not fearless, they are vehicles, they cannot outflank with Khan as they do not have combat tactics.

[Thantoes]

Thanks for all the answers. I had a feeling that they couldnt outflank (or else why specify that dedicated transports can do so) but its good to get it verified.

[jeffersonian000]

One thing to note is that GW has ruled that Dreadnoughts and other vehicles can use an effective leadership of 10 in situations that require a leadership stat to be present even though a Dreadnought never needs to take a leadership test.

 

This was specifically mentioned in the Daemonhunter FAQ, where a GK Dreadnought can have an upgrade that requires a leadership score if used. This can be considered a precedent for other situations where a leadership stat is required for other Dreadnoughts. I remember at least one other vehicle (non-Dreadnought) specific ruling that advised to use an effective leadership of 10, yet which escapes me at this time.

 

SJ

 

*etymology of the word “Dreadnought” is “Fear not” or “Fearless”

[Ian MacKay]

One thing to note is that GW has ruled that Dreadnoughts and other vehicles can use an effective leadership of 10 in situations that require a leadership stat to be present even though a Dreadnought never needs to take a leadership test.

 

This was specifically mentioned in the Daemonhunter FAQ, where a GK Dreadnought can have an upgrade that requires a leadership score if used. This can be considered a precedent for other situations where a leadership stat is required for other Dreadnoughts. I remember at least one other vehicle (non-Dreadnought) specific ruling that advised to use an effective leadership of 10, yet which escapes me at this time.

 

SJ

 

*etymology of the word “Dreadnought” is “Fear not” or “Fearless”

 

No, they have not ruled that vehicles use a Leadership of 10. They have ruled that Grey Knight Dreads use a leadership of 10 for purposes of the Aegis rule. Remember, codexes are self-contained unless they are specifically stated as supplements, like the soon to be dead Space Wolf codex.

 

The only other place where vehicles and leadership show up are for Tau drones.

[jeffersonian000]

No, they have not ruled that vehicles use a Leadership of 10. They have ruled that Grey Knight Dreads use a leadership of 10 for purposes of the Aegis rule. Remember, codexes are self-contained unless they are specifically stated as supplements, like the soon to be dead Space Wolf codex.

 

The only other place where vehicles and leadership show up are for Tau drones.

 

Which negates what I posted how?

 

SJ

[Brother_Kluft]

Drones do not have a AV value, and therefore are not vehicles.

[Ian MacKay]

One thing to note is that GW has ruled that Dreadnoughts and other vehicles can use an effective leadership of 10 in situations that require a leadership stat to be present even though a Dreadnought never needs to take a leadership test.

 

This was specifically mentioned in the Daemonhunter FAQ, where a GK Dreadnought can have an upgrade that requires a leadership score if used. This can be considered a precedent for other situations where a leadership stat is required for other Dreadnoughts. I remember at least one other vehicle (non-Dreadnought) specific ruling that advised to use an effective leadership of 10, yet which escapes me at this time.

 

SJ

 

*etymology of the word “Dreadnought” is “Fear not” or “Fearless”

 

Which negates what I posted how?

 

SJ

 

Because you are using a specific ruling as a precedent for all armies when it only applies to GK Dreads. If all dreads were supposed to be used this way, the individual codexes and the BRB would have stated so.

 

Also, this was debated in the thread on BT Dreads vs. Mindworm. Dreads in all cases except GK Dreads do not have a leadership value, and then only in the specific case of Aegis.

 

And you have not provided the information for the "other vehicle with leadership" as stated in your post. I've been through the codexes and the FAQs and only find reference to the GK Dread.

 

And yeah, my bad on the drones. It's part of the discussion of destroying Pirhanas and other drone toting Tau vehicles.

[jeffersonian000]

This was specifically mentioned in the Daemonhunter FAQ, where a GK Dreadnought can have an upgrade that requires a leadership score if used. This can be considered a precedent for other situations where a leadership stat is required for other Dreadnoughts. I remember at least one other vehicle (non-Dreadnought) specific ruling that advised to use an effective leadership of 10, yet which escapes me at this time.

 

 

SJ

[SeattleDV8]

BRB pg.63 "Vehicles never take Morale checks for any reason."

[Frosty the Pyro]

The point is its not a precident for using ld 10 for vehicles whenver it would be conveinent for the m to have ld scores. Its a special peace of wargear that treats a vehicles as ld 10 for the purpose of its own ability, it is not aplicable outside of that instance. Just like with the changelings crazy shoot your self power (which also treates vehicles as ld 10). They are specific interactions, not general rules.

 

Dreads still do not have combat tactics, and cannot outflank with khan, or use any other chapter tactics that replaces combat tactics (although shrike having fleet dreads would be cool). Vulkans works as it modifies all instances of the relivent weapos in the army, though I guess he makes up for it by not being able to take a command squad