How do you beat tyranids?

[Vincent Black Shadow]

I recently had a battle pitting my space marines against a good player who has a finely honed, balanced tyranid list.

 

In the first couple turns I was able to wipe out a few hordes with templates, but after that he'd popped or immobilized my transports and left me without any firepower. By turn 4 he'd taken out my pie plate tanks and all I really had left that was killy was my terminators, who, due to a series of horrible difficult terrain rolls, accomplished nothing but getting shot up for the rest of the game.

 

It's impossible to killhammer against such numbers, it seems. 6 warriors (12 wounds), 2 shooty carnifexes (10 wounds), and a winged tyrant (4 wounds), plus so many genestealers that there's nowhere you can go on the table to shoot at them without getting overwhelmed in assault in a turn or two.

 

So this question is for people who have played against bugs and emerged victorious... how do you stem the tide? How do you balance a list to be able to handle a pimped out assault tyrant and genestealers and still be shooty enough to thin the herd? And how would you counter this list? What would you do, killhammer-wise, to even the odds?

 

1 hive tyrant, wings, fleshooks, bioplasma, some other stuff

2 carnifexes with twin linked deathspitter and barbed strangler

6 warriors with twin linked deathspitter

3 large units of genestealers

2 very large units of termagaunts

1 biovore

[waaanial00]

You have two main targets in this army. The Hive Tyrant and the Warriors.

 

If you kill these two units the termagants will likely be unable to move towards you (they can either lurk, which means staying still and no scoring, or they can try to pass a LD check at LD5 to be used like a usual troop). This way you have effectively knocked out 4 units by killing 2.

 

As much as I hate to admit it you could do with TH/SS terminators (groans at his own suggestion) to take on and kill the Tyrant! Then all you need is a thunderfire cannon and other long range high strength templates to take out those Warriors.

 

Once those are out of the way you need to start laying heavy weapons fire onto the Carnifexes whilst using high rate of fire weapons to tackle the Genestealers when they come up.

 

If you manage to kill the Synapse Creatures (Warriors and Tyrant) quick enough without killing too many Termagants then they will effectively block their own movement. Cant move them out of the way of the larger Carnifexes which are likely behind them.

 

Hope this serves you well

 

Wan

[Giga]

Get some lascannons (a land raider is the best way to get some highly reliable lascannons), multimeltas (speeders, attack bikes), missile launchers (tactical squads), and even some plasma (tactical squads, command squads), and shoot the bejesus out of the incoming big gribblies. But don't forget to keep your units at a safe range, so you dont get assaulted early on.

 

Once they come near, spray them with flamers (tactical squads get them for free), plasmacannons (plasmacannons kill genestealers just fine), and assault the bejesus out of the warriors with terminators and the like. As for the genestealers, don't assault them, but thin their numbers with rapid fire, flamers, and whatever else is at hand, and then let the remnants assault you. Usually it wont be more then 2-3 genestealers left. They will kill some marines, but then they'll take wounds and fail saves.

 

It's really a war of attrition. It's important to avoid close contact for as long as possible.

[Gornall]

Don't be afraid to use Rhinos to form walls to block off avenues of attack, giving your firepower more time to work. Every turn he's not in assault is a win for you. Like mentioned above, kill the Tyrant (which should be pretty easy if you have a reasonable amount of Lascannons/Multi-meltas in your army) first, followed very quickly by the Warriors. Use combat squads as Genestealer speedbumps, and also try to use tank shocks to bunch them up for flamers. Genestealers HATE heavy flamers with a passion, especially if you nudge them into a nice tight grouping. Also, anything without fleshhooks should be forced to charge you in cover. That alone will even the odds against most packs of 'Nids.

[Koremu]

The emperor has given you the Heavy Bolter, Brother. Yea, in his mercy he has even given you the Heavy Flamer Land Speeder. Even yet, he has provided for you with the Assault Cannon and the most blessed Plasma Gun. Why do you spurn the Emperor's sanctified weaponry?

[Hackbar]

It's worth mentioning that everything Tyranid is Fearless if in Synapse range, and thus subject to No Retreat if you win combats. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest you seek melee as a primary tactic, but the extra wound here and there can make the difference between being tarpitted by gaunts for a few turns and wiping them out in short order.

 

My mistake. Tyranids are apparently not Fearless, they get something better than Fearless and without the downside of No Retreat. Disregard the above. (unless I'm misreading things and was actually right)

[Cydrone]

They don't have Fearless, but their Synapse works the same and No Retreat factors in as well.

[Giga]

Actually, you can seek out close combat with SOME tyranid creatures.

 

For example, hive tyrants have strength 6. This means they can't instant-death space marine characters. If you got yourself a HQ with 3+ invulnerable save (storm shield) and a power fist or a relic blade, you can reliably take these hive tyrants 1on1 with your HQs.

 

Vulkan, Lysander, Calgar, captain/master with stormshield+relicblade/powerfist can all reliably kill hive tyrants in 1on1 because they will wound the tyrant on 4+ (or 2+, if they got powerfist/thunderhammer) and ignore armor saves (hive tyrant has only 6+ invulnerable save), while at the same time being able to survive most of the damage thanks to their storm shields. It also makes for some great moments. (when I let my vulkan take on a hive tyrant 1on1, I like to yell: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" :))

 

You can also charge gaunts all you want. Marines take them out in close combat faster then you can read this sentence.

 

Finally, assaulting shooty carnifexes is one of the great ways to take them out. They have initiative 1, WS3, and 2 attacks. So they will end up killing one or two marines per assault phase, and then the power fist in your squad (of course you need a power fist to do this) will usually get 2-3 attacks that hit on 3 and wound on 2. Granted, it's always better to shoot carnifexes to death, but at times you just don't have/can't spare the firepower (like when you need it to take out that beefed-up close combat carnifex), so it's a good idea to assault them because you're likely going to kill it in one or two assault phases + it's not going to be able to shoot its weaponry.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Bring some plasma, mater of fact bring lots of plasma. Flamers too. If you use a captain, bring a comand squad, eather with all plasma or all flamers, throw in a power fist for good mesure. Also gigle at the deathspitter on the carnifex, tell him they're cute. If you want to be mean take a land raider, any land raider. If can only be hurt by the fex and the tyrant. The wariors cant hurt it, the stealers cant hurt it, the guants cant hurt it, the biovore cant hurt it (unless its using acid but then it needs to roll a 12 on 2d6). heck make it a redeemer, the flamestrom will blow away those wariors (template auto hits, wounds on a 2+ and ignors their armor).

 

 

 

 

Oh and multi assult. If you can get your people in a fight with a bunch of guants and anything else (except the stealers, you shoot the hell out of those stealers), then you will almost definatly win combat (guants die almost as fast as guard is CC) by alot, and as synapse auto-passes all ld tests, it is subect to no retreat. You tank shock your way with that redeemer into the middle of their formation and let out some terminators onto a bunch of guants with some fexes and wariors nearby. win combat by alot and make all those fex and wariors take no retreat rolls,remember each participating unit takes the full amount of no retreat. (no retreat makes guants a liability)

[Warp Angel]

I actually play quite a lot against bugs... my best friend and fellow Killhammer conspirator Olesh plays them exclusively, and he's quite good.

 

In order to manage them, you really do need to focus in on the Killhammer basics.

 

How can you create a killgap, and how can you maintain it.

 

While his little bugs are the squishiest targets, they're generally not the greatest threat. (low K, low D)

While the carnifexes are the toughest targets, you've got some time to deal with them (relatively high K2)

As others have pointed out the warriors and the tyrant are the lynchpin of his army in an objectives game, and important in the rest of the game. They have very high S because of their synapse ability.

 

Oh, and winged tyrants are just nasty :lol:: that need to be dealt with as a priority because their K1 is so amazingly high and they've got good S.

 

That's sort of your target priority. But you also need to make sure you're able to target those target priorities. If your list doesn't allow you to concentrate the pain on the things that you need to take out, you need to rethink what you're doing. You need the right combination of firebases and mobility to chew them up.

 

If you can launch a rush at one of their flanks (drop pods, rhinos moving 12", bikes etc), he HAS to spin some of his army to deal with you, and the turn or two that he's not moving directly towards your main force really hurts his ability to survive. Tyranids have little ability to run down mechanized armies and if you decide to focus on a flank, they've got a lot of turns of useless running to do to catch you. This probably means trying to deploy second.

 

Use reserves. They help with focusing on a flank and allow you to concentrate firepower where it's needed or run, unable to be molested by their big bugs for a mid-late game objective if you're delayed.

 

It's probably worth combat squadding to give some ablative capability to your army and virtually ensuring that the winged tyrant spends the turn after his first assault out in the open. That should give you a good 3 turns of shooting at him in the first 4. They're big targets and seldom benefit from more than a 4+ save in the current rules. Those same combat squads can annoy the crap out of genestealers in the same fashion. But what really frustrates the stealers are rhinos and razorbacks protecting your flanks. They can and probably will wreck them, but it forces them to spend yet another turn in the open to be shot at in order to either kill them in assault or move around them.

 

I can't stress this enough - create the kill gap. Wipe an entire unit off the board before you start plinking at other units. This generally means using two or more units at the same time. Utilize mobility and firebases to make sure you can do this, and if you can't, rethink your army build. It's not just tyranids that this sort of capability is useful against.

[HERO]

Actually, you can seek out close combat with SOME tyranid creatures.

 

For example, hive tyrants have strength 6. This means they can't instant-death space marine characters. If you got yourself a HQ with 3+ invulnerable save (storm shield) and a power fist or a relic blade, you can reliably take these hive tyrants 1on1 with your HQs.

 

Vulkan, Lysander, Calgar, captain/master with stormshield+relicblade/powerfist can all reliably kill hive tyrants in 1on1 because they will wound the tyrant on 4+ (or 2+, if they got powerfist/thunderhammer) and ignore armor saves (hive tyrant has only 6+ invulnerable save), while at the same time being able to survive most of the damage thanks to their storm shields. It also makes for some great moments. (when I let my vulkan take on a hive tyrant 1on1, I like to yell: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" ;))

 

You can also charge gaunts all you want. Marines take them out in close combat faster then you can read this sentence.

 

Finally, assaulting shooty carnifexes is one of the great ways to take them out. They have initiative 1, WS3, and 2 attacks. So they will end up killing one or two marines per assault phase, and then the power fist in your squad (of course you need a power fist to do this) will usually get 2-3 attacks that hit on 3 and wound on 2. Granted, it's always better to shoot carnifexes to death, but at times you just don't have/can't spare the firepower (like when you need it to take out that beefed-up close combat carnifex), so it's a good idea to assault them because you're likely going to kill it in one or two assault phases + it's not going to be able to shoot its weaponry.

 

The only person that I would risk in CC with a Fex is Lysander.. because he has 3+ Invul, 4 Wounds and has Eternal Warrior. Everyone else will get gibbed if they're unlucky.

 

I would rather shoot MC's with Sternguard w/ Combi-Plasma or Combi-Meltas.

[Frosty the Pyro]

A comand squad with 4 plasma will generaly kill a fex in 2 rounds (1 long range, one rapid fire), and is what I advise using.

 

12 plasma shots will mathammer 5.33 wounds vs t6, and 4 vs t7, and 4.444 vs T6 and a 6+ inv (the flyrant)

 

If your going to use sterngard it will need 9 to shots to kill an unaugmented fex, 12 to kill a w4t7 fex, and 15 to drop a w5t7 fex (as tough as they come)

 

It takes 5 hellfire shots to equal one plasma shot. (4 against the t7 fex or the flyrant) asuming they are packing 2+ saves, which the most likely are.

 

Point for point scout snipers are better vs MC than sterngard using hellfire are. (though it is very close when the sternguard are in rapid fire range)

[Giga]

Oh, and winged tyrants are just nasty censored.gif: that need to be dealt with as a priority because their K1 is so amazingly high and they've got good S.

I dunno. I never had a problem with a winged tyrant. I just shoot it to hell. It doesn't have the tyrant guard to keep it alive longer, and depending on terrain it can have big trouble getting a cover save. Even so, it's like jump infantry, if I deploy correctly, the flyrant will HAVE to stand in the open for a turn before it can charge, hence will get shot down. Normally with my armies, I have enough melta, plasma, and TL lascannons to take out one or two MCs per turn.

The only person that I would risk in CC with a Fex is Lysander.. because he has 3+ Invul, 4 Wounds and has Eternal Warrior. Everyone else will get gibbed if they're unlucky.

 

I would rather shoot MC's with Sternguard w/ Combi-Plasma or Combi-Meltas.

Shooting the fexes is the preferred method of taking them down.

 

However, if that dakkafex gets close enough to my tacticals, I'm likely going to assault it. As I said, the power fist in the squad hits it on 3+, and has 3 attacks on charge. The fex on the other hand is unlikely to kill more then 1 guy per turn. Hence, the fex dies in two turns of assault + during this time it can't shoot its guns.

 

Ofc, I'd never send a non-eternal warrior IC against a fex. The only times I'd ever consider it is if the fex was at 1 wound, and I was positive I could take it out before it gets to attack back.