The bandwagon

[whiskeybent]

I picked up the 40k itch about 8 months ago. A co-worker and his friends have a good game a couple times each month and I talked with him a couple times about it. So I asked him what army I should look at. He said" Space Wolves, no doubt. You look like a F'ing Viking anyways!". So I did my research. Read all the books and loved every bit of the fluff. It just felt right. So off I went and started to put together an army mostly from eBay cast-off, knowing that a new Codex was on the horizon and new models would be available eventually.

 

So I have spent only a short time struggling to find my way with the old codex, against seemingly uphill odds. But through it all I have held on to the Space Wolves because I like what they are and the fact that Space Wolves players feel that camaraderie.

 

So I am new, but I am not a band wagoner. I will be here for the long haul. The good and the bad. I feel for you guys that have been through this longer than I but, cocky as I am, I will say shut up with the complaining. If you are going to let a few fair weather fans spoil your fun, are you having that much fun anyways? ride it out and they will move on to shinier codex's.

 

Here's to swimmin' with bow-legged women!

 

whiskeybent ^_^

[Vash113]

How dare people try and paint their tiny toy soldiers however they want. I can't believe someone would stray from the awesome and euphoric paint schemes set forth by the almighty GW.

 

Yes because sarcasm really goes a long way towards proving a point. For many of us this hobby is well... a hobby, it isn't just a bunch of little toy soldiers used in a game, many of us actually care about the background, the painting, the modeling and so on and so forth. Particularly here in the Fang. You aren't going to prove anything to us with sarcasm and snarky remarks. ^_^

 

After all the game is also supposed to be fun for both parties and if some people don't find it fun to play someone who has put 0 time or effort into the character of their army or who are playing with the most cheesy/powergaming list possible than they don't have to and tough luck for anyone who complains about it.

 

Heck I already tend not to play such people to begin with regardless of the upcoming dex. Those games tend to just not be fun so why bother? It's a waste of an otherwise perfectly good afternoon.

[Night Runner]

Heck I already tend not to play such people to begin with regardless of the upcoming dex. Those games tend to just not be fun so why bother? It's a waste of an otherwise perfectly good afternoon.

 

This is a good point vash123. Although I can't stop bandwagoning and wont even try, the best thing to do if it bothers you so much is to play with gamers more accustomed to your type of play; according to the spirit of the fluff and fair play. What can I say your my type of gamer, but don't spoil the fun for the badwagoners either. Let them play how they wont with who they want. Let them have their fun as well and don't get all boiled up about it. It's just not worth the effort.

 

As whiskeybent put it: ride it out and they will move on to shinier codexes.

[Vash113]

Ah thanks for the compliment. As for your point I doubt anyone here in the Fang is going to be trying to stop bandwagoners or ruin their day I don't think, however this forum has a long history as a tight knit and enjoyable community heavily interrested in the fluff. That shared interest binds everyone together and we share each other's exploits and disasters, bandwagoners coming to try and put together the most powerful tournament list are about as opposite to that mentality as you can get and it's very unlikely all the older members of the Fang will welcome them warmly and I wouldn't expect anyone too.

 

It's the height of arrogance to stroll into a new community and expect to fit in right away and be accepted with arms wide open, particularly not a community that has held together through trials and tribulations not shared, respected or in some cases even acknowledged by the new guys.

 

We welcome Blood Claws around here practically like a fraternity welcomes new guys, with some mild hazzing and a period of scrutiny to see if the new guys are really here to stay or if they're just around for the flavor of the week. Those who do stay generally find no difficulty fitting in around here. Unfortunately most bandwagon jumpers aren't going to stay and their attitudes are pretty contrary to the atmosphere in this board.

 

Doubtless some genuine new meat are going to find it a bit tougher than usual to fit in and get lost amongst the bandwagoners for a while. Those who are really Wolves at heart will equally doubtless soldier on regardless as some are already doing.

 

A couple bits of advice for those who are genuinely interrested in the character and fluff of the wolves. First read everything around here and pay attention to the older members, learn from them and their experience. Second, roll with the punches and make sure you have a good sense of humor. Finally just show some patience, the scrum will die down eventually and those still standing should find the place back to it's usual warm and funny self in short order.

[Thorgrim Blackwolf]

Vash, my friend, have an ale! That has to be the best description of this forum and what we are all about that I have ever read in my time here at the Fang. It should be stickied here somewhere for the Blood Claws to read.

 

Heed Vash's words, whelps, and prepare yourselves for your initiation which will involve copious amounts of ale and a few rounds with Firenze, Only In Death, Jonas, Grey Mage, Decoy, myself and anybody else who wants to join in. :D

 

If you can survive that and the avalanche of bandwagoners, you will not find a better set of battle brothers and drinking buddies this side of Terra. I gurantee it.

 

Cheers

 

Thorgrim

[DGC]

Some solid words have been spoken by our brothers. Lord Ragnorak and Vash113, honour and beer to you both especially

 

Here's my bit. I have been around since 3rd edition and have stayed mainly for the fluff and the modeling oportunities. I am not an experienced gamer or GD standard painter. I am no fluff monkey or rules lawyer, I am here because I want to be. The comaraderie and banter is second to none, the advise varied and the arguments on the whole are well mannered.

 

It is inevitable that there will be new blood and I am sure for the most part the new bloodclaws will make their mistakes like the headstrong young pups that they are (and we all were once), but they will learn the ways of the wolf and either break, or climb the ranks like a good wolf should, sharing their stories, tactics, skills and tips with us all. Those that fall away shall be missed like any fallen brother and will leave some kind of legacy even if it is one of bad temper, arogance or simple neglect. They will move on. Those that survive will be honoured and will be faithful to the call of Russ

 

The only thing I personally don't understand is why people don't stick to their guns. If people want to play in the style of the wolves, why don't they play wolves?? Yes yes, I know that some people want to win at all costs but they are not wolves, they are power gamers and most of us that have been around for a while have wisdom enough to steer clear of them or show restraint and not rise to their taunts. When 5th edition came out some jumped at the chance of the WG units with three assault cannons or whatever and rejoiced at the opportunity of taking Ironclads etc. These options have gone now and I know that some at the fang have invested a lot of cash on those new toys. I was lucky, I didn't. Everything takes me forever to finish so I still have box loads of stuff and with just a little tinkering my army will be fully legal again. When the option in 5th said we lost an attack unless we took two power fists, I didn't stick an extra one on each model to get the attack back, I played without. The reason I mention this is based on words spoken in these very halls. Adapt

 

That has always been the strongest ideal that I believe sets us apart from the others. We have been out dated for so long that we have had no option but to change and adapt to survive. We will do it again and ride this storm as we have done before

 

May I live long enough to become a Longfang and be there at the end. I have always been and will always be a Space Wolf.

 

In the name of Russ and for the Wolftime, let us welcome all those who come and let the Allfather and the fields of battle test their spirit

 

DGC

[Lord Noble]

I'm going to weigh in here. No. I am not a "Long Fang" (in the Space Wolf sense of the word). I AM a long fang of this game, and I can remember when the ONLY thing that separated SM armies WAS the paint scheme. I was playing this game before most of the "Long Fangs" knew what a bolter was. I won't blame you for being crotchety, OR for disliking the new guys. Just remember how it felt when YOU were a new guy at the gaming club, and the long fangs treated you like crap. No one wants that or deserves it. Become like the Old Wise Wolf Grimnar who sits silently as the new blood comes in and leave the Great Hall door open. Quietly appraising their merits and looking forward to what each could bring to the Fang.

 

This said, I AM a Bloodclaw when it comes to the Sons of Russ, in a sense. Several years ago, I got the Space Wolf trilogy and I enjoyed it. I've always liked the Wolves especially their fluff. So when I heard that a new codex was on the way, I got excited. Up to this point, I didn't have any particular marine army I was playing. I love the Raptors. But this is only because I loved the way glenn (check him out on this very forum) painted his. His Raptors seemed easy to paint, but looked really sharp. I tried multiple codex lists with different "counts-as" characters. None seemed to fit the way I wanted to play. I finally bought the last copy of the Space Wolves Codex. I also got Logan, Ragnar, and a Rune Priest in TDA for an unbelievable deal. I read the codex, made a list based on what I had found on here. I played them. I lost. But something happened. I found the army that fit my style of play. I lost almost to the man. I got trounced by greenskins. But I loved my army. I played several more times. Every time losing to various degrees. But I had found my army. Does this make me a "Bloodclaw"? Does this make me a "bandwagoner"? Great. I don't care.

 

I have been collecting for a long time. I still have my RTB01 marines (they've been stripped for years). I could field an entire codex battle company (sans transports) with the stuff I have from 3rd edition onwards. All unpainted since I didn't have the skills (by my ridiculous standards) to paint any of the newer models I got. If anything, I'm a converter. I LOVE to convert. So along comes the Great Hunt. I can try new things that are "wolf-y" on my bare models. I can use my creativity to make something that looks different than any other Space Wolves army.

 

Don't take this as a an attack. It's not. But I take offense to being labeled any term which implies I'm somehow new. I'm not. Just because I started a Wolves army doesn't mean I'm not here to stay.

 

So from one long fang to another "Long Fang". Shut up and pass the gin (or if you're more inclined, some sort of stout ale will do).

 

Just me 2 cents.

 

-J

[Jaarl Stormfang]

I do think a few of you need to chill out just a tad. It's a game of toy soldiers. It's fun yeah, and it holds a special place in lots of people's hearts sure, but just because you played an army when it was being less used doesn't give you the right to do all this "aren't welcome in 'the fang'" business like you have some sort of claim to space wolves. Some of you really seem to have a chip on your shoulder and it's not cool for anyone else. Grow up a little bit. Play the game. Have fun.

 

This from a 9 year wolf player - so you know which side I'm coming from.

[Skaldnir]

Now first of all, i would like to say the fang has one of the best online communities i have seen in a long time. I am a blood claw in every sense of the word, new to the hobby and to the wolves both. Now do i deserve respect from the rest of the fang? Absolutely not. But from what i have seen most of the wolves here are both knowledgeable( may not be a real word) and fairly easy to get along with. With the sheer amount of information here we should probably be charged admission for the invaluable modeling and painting tips. So to the old wolves i say thank you, and haze to your hearts content.

[Thorgrim Blackwolf]

Point well made, Jaarl Stormfang.

 

Its funny how when I look elsewhere on the 'net etc about our new codex, I see a lot of stuff which I get heated about but when I come back here my temper subsides after some discussion in the Fang.

 

However, Vash, Decoy and others have made some well reasoned observations as to why some of us have a chip on our shoulder about banwagoneers. That still won't stop me from welcoming as many Blood Claws as possible to the Fang and showing my displeasure to the people here for powergaming cheese.

 

I would also point out that in a literal sense Space Wolves, in part, do belong to us. All of us. GW may own the IP but without us buying the minatures, books etc, it is likely that they would be squatted. The fact that such lively discussion can take place here in the Fang means that everybody here feels a connection to the Sons of Fenris, feels they are a part of them and that they own a part of them. I certainly do.

 

Cheers

 

Thorgrim

[Vash113]

Don't take this as a an attack. It's not. But I take offense to being labeled any term which implies I'm somehow new. I'm not. Just because I started a Wolves army doesn't mean I'm not here to stay.

 

So from one long fang to another "Long Fang". Shut up and pass the gin (or if you're more inclined, some sort of stout ale will do).

 

Long in the hobby you may be but your still a Blood Claw (aka "new guy") to the Wolves. Is that bad? Heck no, you seem to think being new to something is bad, well it's not. It's just a temporary state of being till you become more experienced and/or grow to fit in with something. There's certainly no cause to take offense, rather grab an ale, take a seat and if you really want to make us happy then lets see some pics of yer stuff, we're suckers for pics. :)

 

Now first of all, i would like to say the fang has one of the best online communities i have seen in a long time. I am a blood claw in every sense of the word, new to the hobby and to the wolves both. Now do i deserve respect from the rest of the fang? Absolutely not. But from what i have seen most of the wolves here are both knowledgeable( may not be a real word) and fairly easy to get along with. With the sheer amount of information here we should probably be charged admission for the invaluable modeling and painting tips. So to the old wolves i say thank you, and haze to your hearts content.

 

Well said young claw, have an ale!

 

Its funny how when I look elsewhere on the 'net etc about our new codex, I see a lot of stuff which I get heated about but when I come back here my temper subsides after some discussion in the Fang.

 

Isn't it great? I think it's all the booze, hard to be mad when there's so many toasts all the time. ;)

[lunchb0x]

Seriously?

 

You want me to really go off about the "bandwagoners" ?

 

Seriously?

[Ryzouken]

New Claws (whether transferred from other chapters or even xenos), and bandwagoners even should probably be welcomed. They've the opportunity to change their army choice to our new dex, and are most likely to contribute meaningfully.

 

Those who use our rules to use their "World Eaters" or "Black Templars" armies won't get my support. They have no incentive to consider changing to our chapter and no interest in fluff or likely the hobby beyond simply winning at all costs. This behavior is repugnant to me because it's actions I could have taken during 4th edition (where the wolf codex was weakest, but still capable of pulling out wins) and eschewed because they did not meet my view of morality. It is very much an issue of paying one's dues. Players of an army that have a codex need to use their army's codex, or they need to make progress toward changing their army (whether by purchasing a new army and shelving their old or by modifying their army's paint and conversions is up to them). Using the new Space Wolves codex because "it's better" or "has more options" than your codex will not win you any points.

 

Of course, none of that matters unless my words will sway you (they won't.) or you end up as my opponent.

[Ulrickthegrey]

Well...First off, let me say its great to finally get AOL to not label the validation Email as spam and trash it before I can get to it. I have been a reader of this forums for a long while, and I am truly pleased to finally join the fang in person and not just as a guest. A Few years back, I was talking with Wolf Lord Lars, or Omar as those of you lucky enough to have gotten to know him. When the Codex was revealed this past friday at our LGS, WWL and I stood shoulder to shoulder as we peered into its scared pages. I was pleased with what I saw...

 

Now as to the Bandwag...whatever you want to call them. I do not like those who change to get the newest shiniest army. I do Like those who want to play as a space wolf. For the past 9 years I have only played the Sons of Russ, Over 3000 points, and I have become something to be feared by. Last week we had some players telling me the SW are broken, well I did not help matters as I tore into their Imperial/Tau gun line with 3000 points of Drop podding glory. Game only lasted 1.5 hours....

 

I just hope that those of us who are too upset at the new players who come our way, should just watch the new bloods. Some will be those we disgust, others will be true battle brothers who have heard the call of the wolf, and those my friends and brothers, are the ones worth our breath.

 

 

So With my peace said, Who does one have to talk to get an ale around here and a place at the fire?

 

Ulrick the Grey

[Brother Grius]

This may be a little off-topic, if it is, just pass me by.

 

How do you old wolves feel about those who waited out this codex to start their variant chapter, not wanting to commit money to models they knew were going to change? Or even those who wanted to play the Wolves a year or a year and a half ago, but waited, knowing they would just end up popping arms off of models and buying new units? Personally I wanted to play the Space Wolves rules set back when Marines had a 4th Ed. codex and was told I should wait for the new Space Wolves codex. I stuck to my Templars for over a year waiting on this book. I'd like to think I'm not a bandwagoner, even if I'm just joining in, because I seriously have been waiting (not to make light of anyone's ten year wait).

[Ulrickthegrey]

If your not doing it, to get the 'creep', then your fine, and I welcome you. I also know many on this board have a similar feeling on the matter. I know people who have had Space wolf armies, ready to be painted, but have waited 5 or more years for the new one, as they did not want to have to repaint them after popping arms off.

[Vash113]

So With my peace said, Who does one have to talk to get an ale around here and a place at the fire?

 

It's not so much who you talk to as who you shove out of the way. The Ale's over in the corner and the fire can be found by following your nose, though you may have to push your way through all the other Blood Claws to get to it. ^_^

 

How do you old wolves feel about those who waited out this codex to start their variant chapter, not wanting to commit money to models they knew were going to change? Or even those who wanted to play the Wolves a year or a year and a half ago, but waited, knowing they would just end up popping arms off of models and buying new units? Personally I wanted to play the Space Wolves rules set back when Marines had a 4th Ed. codex and was told I should wait for the new Space Wolves codex. I stuck to my Templars for over a year waiting on this book. I'd like to think I'm not a bandwagoner, even if I'm just joining in, because I seriously have been waiting (not to make light of anyone's ten year wait).

 

Personally I don't see the point in waiting. Time is precious, if you always wait for things you'll end up always waiting. I started my Wolves only two years ago, there were rumours of a new Dex down the line and I could have waited but I finally had the opportunity (after 8 darn years) to start a Space Wolves army and hell or high water I was going to do it and nothing and nobody was going to dissuade me. Heck I'm still buying, building and painting stuff even with the Codex just weeks away. If I gotta pop a few arms off, fine, then that's what I'm going to do. No ammount of retrofitting for the new dex could compare with the number of unit shiftings, filler purchases and re-equippings I had to do when the darn 5th Edition Codex Space Marines came out. It ruined my Blood Ravens, ruined my Lysanderwing, and made me chop off over a dozen plasma pistols and add almost 30 marines all told to get my Tactical Squads in my Blood Ravens, Raven Guard and Ultramarines legal again. Ripping off half a dozen power weapons from my Blood Claws is no big deal.

 

Course some people don't see it that way and I guess that's ok, maybe I'm just too stubborn and impatient.

[Tanon]

Vash:

 

Just notch the power weapons and say that they 'count as' chainweapons ^_^

[Ryzouken]

or repaint their shoulders and call em Wolf Guard.

[Grey Mage]

Well, it looks like the SW will be quite popular. I saw the codex banded about with glee at my local store. Even the die hard chaos players were reading over the new rules and toys.

 

It will sell very well, and SWs will pop up all over the place. For those that have played through the barren years, do you view this as a good thing or frown at the bandwagoners who could be gone come nids or blood angels?

 

*blinks* Barren years? We had barren years?

 

Sorry... but for the last 10 years weve had a competitive codex with good stable rules that was consistently strong. The fact that we werent highly publicised or "shiny" wasnt an issue for me.

 

I welcome my brothers, I hope the good blokes stay and the jerks get the hell out sooner or later.

 

Because this has been a really cool forum for me for the last six years, and Id like to keep it that way.

 

This may be a little off-topic, if it is, just pass me by.

 

How do you old wolves feel about those who waited out this codex to start their variant chapter, not wanting to commit money to models they knew were going to change? Or even those who wanted to play the Wolves a year or a year and a half ago, but waited, knowing they would just end up popping arms off of models and buying new units? Personally I wanted to play the Space Wolves rules set back when Marines had a 4th Ed. codex and was told I should wait for the new Space Wolves codex. I stuck to my Templars for over a year waiting on this book. I'd like to think I'm not a bandwagoner, even if I'm just joining in, because I seriously have been waiting (not to make light of anyone's ten year wait).

 

Its your money, I can hardly get pissy because you chose not to spend it how I did eh?

[Vassakov]

Ok, having had a PM conversation with Ominous I think a few lines have got crossed around here.

 

We have no problem, and have never had a problem, with new players joining the ranks of the Fang.

 

The crux of the "issue" which has been raised is of bangwagoneers - those who shift schizophrenically from one list to another in an effort to find the most powerful combination of the day and then use that exclusively. There is a bit of bitterness in the Fang that, having weathered 2 C:SM and 2 C:CSM updates before us that the primary topic of conversation on the internet is how our new ruleset might be used to benefit Salamanders, or Dark Angels, or World Eaters.

 

Either that, or "golly Borkemn SW -_- was GW thinking OMG CHEEESEE!!!!" (I have no response to the accusation of beard. You have us there.) As far as I can tell, almost nothing has changed in the core units. So why now? Well, because we are new, and because the thought exists that we will somehow be "better" than the others. I don't think we will be.

 

Thats what this thread is about - perhaps it is unneccesarily bitter - but given the way C:CSM and the Orks have been used by the internet, can you blame us for being a little cynical and a little bitter? All we want to do is enjoy our new Codex and models - not put up with powergaming spam sandwiches.

[Decoy]

Here's another interesting tidbit, one which I find highly entertaining.

 

 

Dark Angels are using Wolfwing, with "Counts as" Dark Angels. They're running LOGAN GRIMNAR, an entire army of WOLF GUARD TERMINATORS, and calling it Dark Angels.

 

Discuss.

[Vanger]

I may add only fuel to the fire, but I have to chime in again :)

 

Everyone who is all of a sudden going crazy that SW is becoming overpowered/cheesy/beardy doesn't know squat about WH40K history.

Back in 2nd edition there was Codex Ultramarines and Codex Space Wolves. And the SW one was overpowered, with all of its characters and the Wolf Guards (maybe some oldtimers remember 4 Wolf Guards in TDA and sporting Cyclone Missile Launchers, teleporting down to the table and doing full rocket salvos :P)

In 3rd edition SW was again very strong because of BC spam + Rhino Rush.

Only in 4th edition were the Wolves lacking in a truly competitive environment (and even then only because they were overpriced).

So the everything comes to a full circle and history repeats itself :) Space Wolves will again be at the top of the food chain duking it out with others and that's all.

 

 

Also I would remark on the tone of some of the posts made in this thread. I can understand that some posters here have strong emotional attachments to their armies, their background and as Decoy put it they laughed and mourned with them.

It's no wonder that they grumpy now. But try a bit less offensive, there are two nice credos for this: "My armour is contempt" and "ignorance is a bliss" ;) Hold these words of the Emperor true to your heart and there will be no problems.

Also I predict that the narative players will stick to the Fang and the bandwagoners will stick to the army list forums instead.

[Wolfe]

Bitterness and resentment, serve nobody. Have no purpose and are ultimately destructive. Your time and your efforts are better spent enjoying your hobby. Wolves have always been my army and the first models I ever got were a great spined dragon and a thrudd. If you even know what one of those is then you know where i'm coming from. Peace out

[Sigismund Himself]

Bitterness and resentment, serve nobody. Have no purpose and are ultimately destructive. Your time and your efforts are better spent enjoying your hobby.

Well said :P