What to expect from Power Gamers?

[Ragnars Claw]

You can take as many thunderwolf units as you have slots available <_<

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Theres been a lot of talk over the last few weeks about the new SW dex being overpowered and cheesy.. After looking over stats and point costs, I think we may just have a new winner for cheesiest 1500pt army. Though hopefully these types of lists won't be used by proper SW players, as they pretty much go 100% against fluff.

 

Grimnar -275

 

10x Wolfguard in PA - 265

10x combi-melta/plasma/flamer (take your pick, they're same cost)

Rhino/Drop Pod

 

10x Wolfguard in PA - 265

10x combi-melta/plasma/flamer

Rhino/Drop Pod

 

10x Wolfguard in PA - 265

10x combi-melta/plasma/flamer

Rhino/Drop Pod

 

10x Wolfguard in PA - 265

10x combi-melta/plasma/flamer

Rhino/Drop Pod

 

5x Wolfguard in PA - 150

5x combi-melta/plasma/flamer

Rhino/Drop Pod

 

This is pretty much a 1 trick pony..but still, thats 45 melta/plasma (90 double tapped) shots in a 1500 list..And are they completely weak once they're out there? Counter-Attack on ld9 with 2 base attacks.

 

 

The one problem I am seeing is that you can't actually take that many Wolf Guard. I wish we were allowed to take more than 3 units, but if you take another look at the codex the exact wording on Logan's "The Great Wolf" rules is this. " Wolf Guard units COUNT as Troops in any army that includes Logan Grimnar". Compare that to Kor'sarro Khan's Mounted Assault rule that says, " If Kor'sarro Khan rides Moondrakkan, Space Marine Bike squads of at least five models may be TAKEN as Troops choices".

 

I really don't like to be the one to burst bubbles, and believe me I wish we could TAKE Wolf Guard as troops, but its just not the case.

[Spacefrisian]

And what would be the difference? if they count as troops than they are troops.

[Gentlemanloser]

If you couldn't take them as Troops, it would use Kantors rules of making them Scoring instead. :)

[Lumdin]

I thought in the old Dex you have a limit of 20 wolfguard in your army.

Not sure if they kept that limit in the new dex and if I am even right.

[earthen]

Its pretty easy really. Maxxed out Jaws of the World wolf, including the psy. special character.

 

Add in a couple 8/9 man GH squads with 2 MGs. Priests go here.

 

Take massive amounts of fenrisian wolves for bodies. 8 pts for a S4 T4 A2 model with a 12" move??? i dont care if its got a 6+ save. You could run 50 of them for a mere 400 points.

 

Fill extra points in with Lone wolves.

 

minimum 4 JoWW tests per turn with Wolves to tie things up and youre golden.

 

Nobs? I3. :)

Carnies? I2

Nurgle? Ohhhh poor nurgle.

Necron? Ohhh poor necrons.

Sallies? 50% chance of winning @I4 x 40pts per Hammernator x as many you can get in a straight linex # of JoWW tests = GG

Bloodcrushers? see above, substitute word *Bloodcrusher* for *Hammernator*

Tau Suits hiding - behind that hill? They are now dead behind that hill.

Lash? How many Initiative tests do you think it will take to kill 2 models?

Demonhunters? How many GKTs, do you wager, will have to die before your opponent starts to weep?

IG? Too bad JoWW can snipe anything that gives orders. Oh, yeah. I3. How many wolves do you reckon you can kill before they assault you? Can you kill the GH by then too? Do you like lone wolves popping up like daises next to your Leman Russ squad?

 

 

Have i forgotten anything?

 

Oh yeah, WH. Hmm. Good thing JoWW means that 3+ invuln on a 14 strong squad of sisters isnt going to matter anymore.

[maligncomedy]

I found one thing in the codex, and I hope it is a rule more than a suggestion, merely because it will keep powergamers wway. On the page where it goes over the army special rules, there is a paragraph at the bottom that says, in essence, that space wolf commanders are proud of their individual wargear and wouldn't copy another leaders style or wargear, because they have their own sagas to fulfill. If that's a rule, and not a suggestion, it seems to mean to me that you cannot take any hq choice with the exact same wargear and options as another. While this is simple to get around, being as how everything is wysiwyg, I would think that powergamers might get tired of having to explain their stuff away. But maybe I'm underestimating powergamers hunger to win as well,so....

 

Anyhow I think, after watching a bunch of powergamers math hammer the codex to smithereens last night, that they might avoid us, because our stuff isn't as cheesy as the rumors suggested.

 

As for a potential army list they might use I could easily see Canis or another lord on a wolf being used with thunderwolf cavalry alot like a nob biker list with a lot of wolf packs for troops. But the problem there is that they can't control objectives, because wolves are considered supernumenary and won't stay and occupy the objective, they'll just hang out and lick themselves and scratch until someone comes along for them to rip up, or they get shot to death, so that forces someone to use them like a chainaxe or something, just trying to hurt the enemy enough so he can't fight back anymore.

 

First off, the wargear thing is something that would make a powergamer happy in my eyes. It gives them a valid excuse to cram units with as many different possible unit types to abuse wound allocation.

 

Secondly, I figure the list will look like this:

 

HQ:

 

Canis Wolfborn

 

Wolf Lord

- Bike (I am assuming a Wolf Lord on Bike makes Bike Squads into Troops)

- Stormshield

- Thunderhammer

- Saga of the Bear (Eternal Warrior)

 

Max Thunderwolf Calvary (3 Fast Attack Choices) with as much diversity as possible in the squads. Because gear really don't matter when your S5, A4, Rending. Other then for diversity of increased life expectancy.

 

Now, if I am right, and you can make bikes into troops using a wolf lord, then I see squads like this:

 

6-?? Bikes

- 1 Flamer

- 1 Melta

- Powerfist WG

- Attack Bike (if possible)

 

If not, then Greyhunters (For multiple special weapons) or Fenrisian Wolves (to conserve points). But Bloodclaws may very well be used due to redonkulous amounts of attacks per squad.

[Gentlemanloser]

I have a feeling 4 x RP with JotWW in Drop Pods will make just about everyone complain (with enough Melta to take out the Vehicles your JotWW can't hurt ofc...).

[Warhorse47]

Wolf Guard can run in packs of 3-10. Usually as Elite choice

[Askari]

It's not the units but the wargear that will see the abuse with wound allocation. Wolves won't have any super string choices that just dominate. But giving a lord some wolves and a wolfguard bodyguard (will you still be able to do that?) will make wound allocation a b. The high cost of wolf guard and their average durability will keep them from being spammed like Sternguard or nob bikers. You're probably just going to see a lot more troop heavy builds and hero hammer but there's nothing right now that's super abusive. it wil be a strong and fun codex but one open to abuse.

[Grey Mage]

The problem is WG only have 1 wound. You cant make them more survivable by a whole lot except by manipulating invulnerable saves and TDA. Its nothing compared to Nob Bikerz.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

If you couldn't take them as Troops, it would use Kantors rules of making them Scoring instead. :)

 

I can see your point, and maybe I'm wrong ( I sure hope I am).

I guess it will be best to leave it up to the FAQ to point us in the proper direction...

[WG Vrox]

I realize this thread is not meant to support the tendency to exploit our new dex, but I find the need to express my concerns to all the new upcoming pups, I ask that you check your power gaming tendencies at the Fang's door and hopefully forget them forever.

 

Why would anyone even consider a list with four RP in it. What possible scenario would Lord Grimnar have to send 4 of his priests to the same battlefield. I would roughly guess that the number of individuals that serve Grimnar as a Rune Priest in the Fang is less than 20. For him to send 4 priests nearly a quarter of his trusted advisers without a war hardened lord to oversee the battle would be a stupid and costly venture on his part and thus something he would only do in the most dire of circumstances.

 

I know there are those out there who care little for the honor and traditions of being a wolfbrother, I just hope that once you set roots into our beloved Fang that it in return will set roots into you. Please before you make that killer list that will destroy all at the next tourney, take the time to learn our ways and uphold the honor of our creed.

 

Just because one has the power to do something does not mean one should.

 

WG Vrox.

[Iacton Qruze]

Its pretty easy really. Maxxed out Jaws of the World wolf, including the psy. special character.

 

Add in a couple 8/9 man GH squads with 2 MGs. Priests go here.

 

Take massive amounts of fenrisian wolves for bodies. 8 pts for a S4 T4 A2 model with a 12" move??? i dont care if its got a 6+ save. You could run 50 of them for a mere 400 points.

 

Fill extra points in with Lone wolves.

 

minimum 4 JoWW tests per turn with Wolves to tie things up and youre golden.

 

Nobs? I3. :(

Carnies? I2

Nurgle? Ohhhh poor nurgle.

Necron? Ohhh poor necrons.

Sallies? 50% chance of winning @I4 x 40pts per Hammernator x as many you can get in a straight linex # of JoWW tests = GG

Bloodcrushers? see above, substitute word *Bloodcrusher* for *Hammernator*

Tau Suits hiding - behind that hill? They are now dead behind that hill.

Lash? How many Initiative tests do you think it will take to kill 2 models?

Demonhunters? How many GKTs, do you wager, will have to die before your opponent starts to weep?

IG? Too bad JoWW can snipe anything that gives orders. Oh, yeah. I3. How many wolves do you reckon you can kill before they assault you? Can you kill the GH by then too? Do you like lone wolves popping up like daises next to your Leman Russ squad?

 

 

Have i forgotten anything?

 

Oh yeah, WH. Hmm. Good thing JoWW means that 3+ invuln on a 14 strong squad of sisters isnt going to matter anymore.

 

Just because I want to be a snit, I'll point out that the little lash bastards are always going to be init 6. yeah it's only 2 models max, but if you're close enough to get them with the jaws, you're also close enough for them to lash you into rapid fire range. Hopefully your Hood nulls the power. :tu:

 

To the rest of that list, I say "so long, and thanks for all the fish!" :)

[Grey Mage]

Dont forget your 5+ saves against psychic powers!

 

Thats going to be a must on every HQ I swear.

[Ryzouken]

also, maximum unit size on fenrisian wolves and your taking 4x Rune Priests instead of 3x + canis means you have maximum 45 dogs. Still not a bad way of filling your FA slots.

 

A better idea might be to take a number of Jaw Priests, some troop units to keep them in (with Rhinos to soak at least a little fire) and fill your HS slots with Vindicators or some other big killy tank. Aim those at lash princes and keep slapping the rest of their army with Jaw Priests.

[Kalamadea]

I was reading the shop preview copy today and I had a few ideas if I wanted to do some broken, unfluffy stuff. I had already thought about the 4 RP list. Only change is that you need WG with combi-weapons in the GH squads since you don't get the 2nd special weapon unless you have a full 10 GH, and wolf pods only carry 10 models again. Even better would be

 

Rune Priest with maw+other power x4

7-man GH in pod with melta/power weapon x4

8-man WG with combi-weapons in pod each plus 2 cyclone missile termy WG to put in the GH squads x2

6-man long fangs with missile launcher x2/heavy bolter x3 in pod

 

Obviously this isn't a polished list but that gives you 4 GH squads with a melta+2 missile+psychic attack, and 2 pods with 8 combi-plasma/melta, and you can fill in the remainder points with cheap long fangs who can pod in or deploy normally and let empty pods drop in if you need to hold back some units (stupid mandatory drop pod assault). I'd need to add up the points, but you could fit that and probably 2 long fang squads in a 1750 list

 

Also, a WG that replaces both weapons with combi-weapons is only 28 points, you could take a combi-melta and a combi plasma, drop in, melta-bliterate a tank and then plasma a squad the following turn assuming you're still alive, perfect for a small, cheap 5 man suicide unit. Or drop in with 10 flamers and have 10 plasmaguns left for just over 300 points + any CC-weapons or storm shields you wanted to add

 

Logan grimnar can give a squad relentless, so you could put him in a log fangs squad and 5 multi-meltas or lascannons droppod in turn 1 and split-fire 2 differant vehicles dead. And then you still have logan grimnar and maybe a WG if they counterassault, maybe even use thor-wannabe for the railgun thunderhammer throw

 

Those were the more heinous ideas I had going over the codex today

[Spacefrisian]

I might have read something wron g i guess i thought that JOWW only worked against MC, did i read it wrong or... If i 'am right you can kiss the idea of removing from play Sallies/ Sissies/ and other Infantry units goodbye.

[Natanael]

JotWW works against everything, and MC have a better chance of surviving. You read it wrong :o

[Spacefrisian]

JotWW works against everything, and MC have a better chance of surviving. You read it wrong :P

 

Than it gets even better, but why have MC got a better chance of surviving (a Carnifex is quite likely to fail an I test)

[eyeslikethunder]

JotWW works against everything, and MC have a better chance of surviving. You read it wrong :(

 

Than it gets even better, but why have MC got a better chance of surviving (a Carnifex is quite likely to fail an I test)

 

 

they get -1 bonus for being big therefore less likely to fall down the hole

[cherrboh]

trying to field any army with even a slight similarity with SW rules.

[Crimson Devil]

Theres been a lot of talk over the last few weeks about the new SW dex being overpowered and cheesy.. After looking over stats and point costs, I think we may just have a new winner for cheesiest 1500pt army. Though hopefully these types of lists won't be used by proper SW players, as they pretty much go 100% against fluff.

 

snip...

 

This nonsense happens with every new codex. People get upset over a few new rules or powers, declare no one can beat the new list and whine all over the boards about it. By next Spring most players will have figured out the counters to any advantage SW have and move on to complaining about the next new codex.

[ForTheLion]

Hail Brothers and Sons of Russ,

 

I just wanted to point out that this list is incredibly juicy and tasty, it overlooks the fact that youre lacking close combat armies who are mechanised(Deathwing with 3 land raiders). Assuming you donnt pop it before it gets to you :P Also Some IG armies which mass blast weapons can hurt youre 3+ save.

[maligncomedy]

About Jaws of the World Wolf, to quote myself from Facebook on a topic complaining about it:

 

"Eh. Honestly, there are alot of issues with this power. Personally, I plan to equip my Rune Priest with Storm Caller and Tempest's Wrath. Anyways, to the issues:

 

1. SM, Dark Angel and Blood Angel Psychic Hood. The range is 24" as well. If you have a Librarian or Epistolary within 24" you can nullify his power (And thats if he passes his Psychic Test, because probabilty says they won't always pass).

 

2. Daemonhunters Psychic Hood. If you choose to argue rules as written, then it's range is the entire field.

 

3. Daemonhunters Null Rod. It'll totally save squads and independent characters if you take it.

 

4. The Grey Knight's Aegis. Since the psyker has to take a psychic test, then the GK can attempt to resist it.

 

5. Lash of Slaanesh. It's also a 24" range. If someone is running a Rune Priest and you have Lash, its probably a good idea to move just barely close enough so that you can reach them, then Lash them as far as possible away.

 

6. Black Templar's "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch" vow. Any BT on the field ignores that power on a 5+.

 

7. Eldar "Runes of Warding". It really increases the chance the Rune Priest will fail his Psychic Test.

 

8. Tyranid "The Shadow in the Warp" Hive Mind Power. This drastically increases the chance of the Rune Priest failing.

 

9. The Witchhunter's "Pentinent". Gives the Inquisitor and his retinue some protection.

 

10. Adepta Soritas' Shield of Faith. It's pretty much the same as the BT vow.

 

11. The actual fact that a Rune Priest can die. They are still a T 4, W 2 model. Just shoot him with a Lascannon or something long range if your worried. What if he's got Saga of the Bear? Shoot him again. Furthermore, they still HAVE to take the Psychic Test to use it. The only one who can be considered more dangerous is Njal and thats because he has that stupid Lord of Tempests ability.

 

 

Just my 2 cents."

 

 

Seriously, it's not that cheesy. Too many counters. It's better to abuse Wound Allocation using Thunderwolf Calvary. They are basically more effective Nob Bikerz.