The Torchbearers

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

On the geneseed front, I do believe exactly as you do. The fact is that if your IA is written properly then the geneseed shouldn't matter. The times when it really does are when you use a seed that has baggage, like the Dark Angels and Blood Angels. The BA carry the rage as a genetic flaw but it's the whole hunt for the Fallen that the Dark Angels have that can really negatively impact a DIY chapter.

 

Yours however, takes the biggest theme at the forefront of the DA and puts it straight on the backseat when you are presented with their personality, beliefs and behavior. It simply seems so much more fitting to have them hunt the Fallen because they enjoy it, rather than the norm.

 

I also think the fear of being captured by the Torchbearers should be quite real to the Fallen, and that it would be for sure. However I don't think it's something to focus on, simply because you're straying into Night Lord territory. Fear is all well and good, but it's the actual torture and agonizing deaths these guys bring to their enemies and the fallen in particular that needs to be in the spotlight, to my mind.

 

I think it's good for them to be highly feared, so are all Astartes. Though they shouldn't play off of it, rather they would dismiss it as a byproduct of who they are and focus on the pain itself.

 

I was struck by the thought of just how secret the 'big secret' is in your chapter? If they enjoy the hunt and agonizing death of their enemies then the equivalent of the DA Ravenwng would be a highly sought position.

[Octavulg]

You may ask why I'm posting this about two weeks after you dragged the thread from the depths.

 

The answer is 'because'.

 

* * *

After gruesomely dying at the hands of the Interrogator, the flesh of the Fallen is collected and consumed by members of the Torchbearers' Inner Circle. In this ceremony, a twisted parody of the Dark Angels' own Feast of Malediction, the Torchbearers ritually ask the Emperor to forgive the Fallen. They believe that by consuming the Fallen, they have absolved him of his sins and returned him to the Unforgiven.

 

Explain further.

 

Once the Deathcrafters had entirely subsumed the Chapter's cult of belief, their philosophies began to alter the Chapter's methods of war. On the fields of war, the Chapter will often seek out the head of the enemy, annihilating any resistance. Lacerating wounds, removing limbs, severing heads, scorching bodies with promethium - each attack is directed in a way that may seem significant to the Torchbearers, even if it has little real tactical value.

 

Explain further.

 

Regarding Lion El’Jonson as their Primarch but not revering him has certainly left some puzzlement among the Imperial scholars of the Adeptus Terra, yet the Torchbearers have used his gene-stock for millennia. Tracing their lineage back to the Angels of Vengeance, whose legacy derives from the Dark Angels, the Torchbearers gene-seed appears pure. No genetic flaws or mutations are present, and the Chapter’s Apothecaries persistently examine and monitor the gene-seed banks located deep with inside the vaults of the Apothecarium.

 

So why don't they revere him?

 

* * *

 

Looks pretty good. A few flaws in the writing (paramount means the opposite of what you used it for, for example), but otherwise quite solid. I think a bit more explanation of some of their unique points would help make the Chapter more memorable.

[Shinzaren]

The Deathcrafters' initiates were taught hand-to-hand combat from a young age as part of a punishing regime that considered the act of taking a life a gesture of ultimate power.

 

Why do they train in martial arts? Who do they fight and hone their skills against? Why are they needed? Does part of their ritualistic sacrifice involve besting their opponent in fair hand-to-hand combat before killing him?

 

The Torchbearers would lend the cult promising youths from off-world, whilst providing a mixture of imprisoned felons, heretics and other scum to be used in ritual slaughter.

 

This seems a bit suspicious. This early in their history, they are already party to ritual slaughter? This seems like a caution flag to me. Not only that, but they are kidnapping kids and supplying them to a death cult? This too seems a bit suspicious, especially this early(relatively speaking) in both the IA and their history. Perhaps a bit more backround on how they arrived at this close of a relationship with the cult?

 

Vengeance is a powerful motivator, and the Torchbearers carefully nurse their shame, rage and resentment towards the Fallen of Caliban who brought shame upon the Dark Angels ten thousand years ago. Retrieving and capturing the Fallen is the Chapter's primary goal; all other considerations are paramount.

 

So, every member of the chapter knows about the Fallen then? Unlike the DA, where only the masters and the DW know? I'm just asking, as the wording is a little unclear. Also, you have non-initiated, non space marines, helping in the breaking of the Fallen? I don't think the DA would be real happy with that... Plus, as non-Astartes, your chapter is showing them considerable trust, since they don't bear the gene-seed of the Lion.

 

Some Torchbearers will even remove their victim’s scalp or flayed faces and drape them across their helmet or shoulder pauldrons as a method of intimidation.

 

This is a cool idea, but very very dangerous/risky. If Imperial guardsmen, Inquisitors, or other organizations of the Imperium saw this, I feel like they would panic, or make assumptions about them being Chaos. Covering themselves in the blood and flesh of their enemies, during a fight, would definitely be linked to Chaos. Perhaps they try to keep it secret?

[Octavulg]

Admit it, Shinzaren. You're following me. :D

[Shinzaren]

Eh, maybe? More likely that you bump things to the top of the pile and I decide to take a look see. Although I could also be waiting for you to slip up, so that I can catch it on video and sell it to tabloids... Probably the former though... Definitely... :D

[Tyrannicide]

After gruesomely dying at the hands of the Interrogator, the flesh of the Fallen is collected and consumed by members of the Torchbearers' Inner Circle. In this ceremony, a twisted parody of the Dark Angels' own Feast of Malediction, the Torchbearers ritually ask the Emperor to forgive the Fallen. They believe that by consuming the Fallen, they have absolved him of his sins and returned him to the Unforgiven.

What happens if the Fallen they catch is touched by Chaos?

You bring up a good point, Heru. I suppose that, though it sounds silly, I overlooked this a bit. As some of their prisoners would almost certainly have been held in the embrace of Chaos, there will have to be other methods utilized. For even the Torchbearers, as insidious and dark as they are, would never overtly risk contact with Chaos. Sadly, I've been away from this article for a while and I even admit I haven't given this any further thought.

 

After gruesomely dying at the hands of the Interrogator, the flesh of the Fallen is collected and consumed by members of the Torchbearers' Inner Circle. In this ceremony, a twisted parody of the Dark Angels' own Feast of Malediction, the Torchbearers ritually ask the Emperor to forgive the Fallen. They believe that by consuming the Fallen, they have absolved him of his sins and returned him to the Unforgiven.

What happens if the Fallen they catch is touched by Chaos?

 

 

They probably wont eat it. But that would be my guess. Maybe they cremate the body and inhale the ashes. Ash can't be chaotic.

That's definitely an option, M2C. When the Torchbearers gene-seed was still uncertain, someone in the original thread suggested that they be Salamanders' successors, where they could inhale the ash of their brethren. Seemed like a cool idea to me.

 

On the geneseed front, I do believe exactly as you do. The fact is that if your IA is written properly then the geneseed shouldn't matter. The times when it really does are when you use a seed that has baggage, like the Dark Angels and Blood Angels. The BA carry the rage as a genetic flaw but it's the whole hunt for the Fallen that the Dark Angels have that can really negatively impact a DIY chapter.

 

Yours however, takes the biggest theme at the forefront of the DA and puts it straight on the backseat when you are presented with their personality, beliefs and behavior. It simply seems so much more fitting to have them hunt the Fallen because they enjoy it, rather than the norm.

 

I also think the fear of being captured by the Torchbearers should be quite real to the Fallen, and that it would be for sure. However I don't think it's something to focus on, simply because you're straying into Night Lord territory. Fear is all well and good, but it's the actual torture and agonizing deaths these guys bring to their enemies and the fallen in particular that needs to be in the spotlight, to my mind.

 

I think it's good for them to be highly feared, so are all Astartes. Though they shouldn't play off of it, rather they would dismiss it as a byproduct of who they are and focus on the pain itself.

 

I was struck by the thought of just how secret the 'big secret' is in your chapter? If they enjoy the hunt and agonizing death of their enemies then the equivalent of the DA Ravenwng would be a highly sought position.

I definitely understand where you're coming from when suggesting to avoid a focus on fear, with the spotlight more on the torture and pain inflicted upon their enemies. And that's just what I intend to do really. I was just working up a scenario in my mind. The personality I've wanted to develop for the Torchbearers is really quite humble to my mind. Where other Chapters are brash, pompous, or belligerent, the Torchbearers are silent, intensive, and even self-effacing at times. Ideas such as glory and fame are shunned in light of truer values. Their concentration is on serving the Emperor and by extension the Imperium. Anything else is second in line.

 

You may ask why I'm posting this about two weeks after you dragged the thread from the depths.

 

The answer is 'because'.

 

* * *

After gruesomely dying at the hands of the Interrogator, the flesh of the Fallen is collected and consumed by members of the Torchbearers' Inner Circle. In this ceremony, a twisted parody of the Dark Angels' own Feast of Malediction, the Torchbearers ritually ask the Emperor to forgive the Fallen. They believe that by consuming the Fallen, they have absolved him of his sins and returned him to the Unforgiven.

 

Explain further.

 

Once the Deathcrafters had entirely subsumed the Chapter's cult of belief, their philosophies began to alter the Chapter's methods of war. On the fields of war, the Chapter will often seek out the head of the enemy, annihilating any resistance. Lacerating wounds, removing limbs, severing heads, scorching bodies with promethium - each attack is directed in a way that may seem significant to the Torchbearers, even if it has little real tactical value.

 

Explain further.

 

Regarding Lion El’Jonson as their Primarch but not revering him has certainly left some puzzlement among the Imperial scholars of the Adeptus Terra, yet the Torchbearers have used his gene-stock for millennia. Tracing their lineage back to the Angels of Vengeance, whose legacy derives from the Dark Angels, the Torchbearers gene-seed appears pure. No genetic flaws or mutations are present, and the Chapter’s Apothecaries persistently examine and monitor the gene-seed banks located deep with inside the vaults of the Apothecarium.

 

So why don't they revere him?

 

* * *

 

Looks pretty good. A few flaws in the writing (paramount means the opposite of what you used it for, for example), but otherwise quite solid. I think a bit more explanation of some of their unique points would help make the Chapter more memorable.

Some things I want to really emphasize in the next draft are:

* Death-trials of their prisoners.

* The Chapter's unique battle practices.

* The bewildering beliefs and rituals that are commonplace.

 

I'm really not trying to take the easy way out on this one, and while I'm not going to scrap the whole article, I'd really like to rewrite most of it. Your comments are appreciated Octavulg. I plan on fleshing this out further, with those parts certainly at the top of the list.

 

Why do they train in martial arts? Who do they fight and hone their skills against? Why are they needed? Does part of their ritualistic sacrifice involve besting their opponent in fair hand-to-hand combat before killing him?

Well their initiates are taught discipline, respect, martial honor, etc. upon their inception into the Death Cult. I imagine they would simply train against each other, as do people in martial arts today. And it's not so much that it's needed, and that's one of the more interesting things to me. This is a Chapter, whose roots are ground in ritual and sacrifice. Superstitious, some would say. They eschew the use of more Codex-adherent tactics and continue with the methods taught by the Deathcrafters. 'Death by a thousand cuts' is a significant inspiration. To the Torchbearers, warfare is a means for executing the Emperor's will, demonstrating their devotion, and for sacrificing souls in His name.

 

This seems a bit suspicious. This early in their history, they are already party to ritual slaughter? This seems like a caution flag to me. Not only that, but they are kidnapping kids and supplying them to a death cult? This too seems a bit suspicious, especially this early(relatively speaking) in both the IA and their history. Perhaps a bit more backround on how they arrived at this close of a relationship with the cult?

Honestly, it doesn't seem anymore suspicious than other Chapters snatching up a few promising innocents and pressing them into service. Sometimes it seems to even result in being a serf, a lowly servitor, and tragically - death. No one would ever really know of how the Torchbearers recruit anyways. As it's not like Astartes recruitment is out for all to see. I do agree with you though, that it might seem too early, and so I'll take that into consideration. More details of the assimilation of the Deathcrafters and such will be provided. It would obviously be a process where the Torchbearers command would be intrigued, sensing that the Death Cult could be fostered to the Chapter's liking. Over the course of a couple generations I imagine it would progress into the Chapter providing liaisons within the Death Cult's practices and training, and the two working in a symbiosis with one another.

 

So, every member of the chapter knows about the Fallen then? Unlike the DA, where only the masters and the DW know? I'm just asking, as the wording is a little unclear. Also, you have non-initiated, non space marines, helping in the breaking of the Fallen? I don't think the DA would be real happy with that... Plus, as non-Astartes, your chapter is showing them considerable trust, since they don't bear the gene-seed of the Lion.

I see what you mean there. Wording could be better, and less collective. I really only meant the Torchbearers who know of the Fallen's existence. I assume you're referring to this quote when you say that I have the Deathcrafters helping with the vindication of Fallen. 'The Interrogators are aided in this endeavor by the expertise of the Deathcrafters.' I only meant that the Interrogator-Chaplains use methods learnt from the Death Cult, not that members of the Deathcrafters are actually involved in the process, and there by know nothing of the Fallen.

 

This is a cool idea, but very very dangerous/risky. If Imperial guardsmen, Inquisitors, or other organizations of the Imperium saw this, I feel like they would panic, or make assumptions about them being Chaos. Covering themselves in the blood and flesh of their enemies, during a fight, would definitely be linked to Chaos. Perhaps they try to keep it secret?

While this is a very graphic and aesthetic detail, I'm not sure it even fits the new direction I'd like to take the Chapter now. I'll have to give it thought, but I do agree that it could cause for some unsettling moments. They'd have some explaining to do. :D

 

***

I gotta say, I haven't given the Torchbearers much more thought. I'm searching for some more themes and inspiration to possibly implement. It's like a never-ending search. Anymore questions/concerns and I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability in the meantime. Is there anything that you guys would like to know more about? I can make notes on what else to include in the next draft if so.

[Tyrannicide]

With the might of a falling titan, Sachiel collides with the crunchy, translucent ice of the dying planet. Bloodstained, defeated. Sachiel’s war-grace was not enough to prevail this hour. Inlaid into the chest of his Mark VII Power Armor suit, his life-candle begins to flicker. The fiery luminance of Argus, his prized blade, dims. The gaping wound in his side allows his gore-slicked entrails to pour out onto the arctic surface, steaming as they meet the brisk cold of the howling winds.

 

The colossal Ork Warlord who laid the Torchbearer champion low stalks around his kill. A bestial bark bellows forth, deep from within the gut of the beast. Sachiel’s ebon helmet lies like a beetle burrowed within the snow. The lenses of the great battle plate had seen the deaths of many a foe. Underfoot, it is crushed by the hulking Ork. The clammy jade skin that tautly hugs the musculature of the greenskin warboss is deeply lacerated in a dozen places over. Yet the savage turns to face Sachiel, who lies prone under the moonlight of Saratoga Prime.

 

Thirteen runes appear upon the visor inlay of Astyanax’s display. A further seven are unlit. His Brothers that still draw breath call out for his aid.

 

The Librarian sits at the helm within the confines of the Thunderhawk, Valiant. He is surrounded by twenty of the Fifth Company’s assault brethren. The warriors sit in silence, the bulky forms of the jump packs they have been granted filling most of the space. He quietly issues a command that releases his power-supply from the Thunderhawks’ own, as cables in his back free from the harness. His feet are mag-locked to the floor of the flying craft as he rises. Opening a comm-link to the other Torchbearers, he addresses his kin.

 

‘Brothers, the Saratogan cities burn as we speak. Yet the Emperor’s Will is not done.’

 

Astayanax looks round upon the assembled warriors. Cerulean warp energy dances upon the edges of the psychic hood encircling his face.

 

‘Master Haedron’s squads are en route to Hive Gaalspack. Yet our destiny finds the strike-force led by Sachiel in need of our assistance.’

 

The Space Marine psyker nods as Brother-Sergeants Orias and Gideon instruct their squads respectively. Jump packs power up as the Thunderhawk nears the ridgelines of the greenskin campsite.

 

‘The spirits of our past guide us to the deaths of our enemies. With flames from far, far Eguht, we deliver the Emperor’s Light to all. With the finest blades of the Imperium, we topple that which no one can. We shall drink the blood of these vermin, once this war is won. We shall sacrifice their souls to Him-on-Earth.’

 

The warriors disengage from their seat-thrones. Astyanax instructs the pilot to open the rear ramp of the gunship. The hypothermic outside world rushes in to meet the Valiant's warming insides, as the moon illuminates the sable-armored Astartes. Three bounds until he reaches the stern of the Thunderhawk. Astayanx vaults into the night sky of Saratoga. Weightlessness greets him for a moment, until the afterburners of the jump pack fire. Immense tents and structures dot the snow bitten Ork settlement below. With godspeed, his Brothers follow his freefall-lead, as the Valiant races to another front where it is required.

 

The Torchbearers had answered the prayers of the hopeless. As their ancestors had commanded, they would come to administer deliverance.

[Shinzaren]

Interesting story, perhaps as introduction to more? However, it begs two questions:

1.) What does this add to the IA? It introduces characters the reader is unfamiliar with, in context the reader is unfamiliar with, and doesn't flesh out these, not seem to go anywhere. All it really does is make me want to see more of this story.

2.) You've stated previously that your philosophy for the Torchbearers is similar to the 'Death of a Thousand Cuts,' and the writing of the Ork seems to imply that he has been cut many many times, and still stands. Which makes me question whether the death of the thousand cuts is a practical practice on the battlefield, or whether it should be left in the sacrificial chambers.

 

All in all, the story raises more questions that it answers: What is the life candle? How does this campaign link to the IA? I feel I just watched an episode of Lost. I have no answers, a dozen questions, and I must see more. Give me more. Otherwise, I will hurt a stuffed animal that looks like a baby seal. Think of the baby seal!

Edited July 27, 2010 by Shinzaren

[Heru]

What is the life candle?

It would seem to me to be a life indicator linked to the armour's sensors, kind of like a health bar in a first person shooter game. When the marine is dead the candle goes out. Also presumably it's not a real candle, but probably a display built into the armour.

 

Is the section on the Thunderhawk a flashback? If so, perhaps the first part of the story should be written in standard, and only have the flashback in italics.

How the heck did you reach that possible conclusion? It reads in order, there are two different characters and the second one mentions the other's plight.

 

How does this campaign link to the IA?

I think it's just unrelated flavour, a way to get the juices flowing whilst also conveying subtle ideas behind the Chapter's battlefield character.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Heru Talon

[Shinzaren]

How the heck did you reach that possible conclusion? It reads in order, there are two different characters and the second one mentions the other's plight.

 

I have NO idea. I thought when I read it the first time that the dying marine was Astyanax. I just reread it and went... "Wow... I am stupid." I would like that part of the response stricken from the record.

[Tyrannicide]

Interesting story, perhaps as introduction to more? However, it begs two questions:

1.) What does this add to the IA? It introduces characters the reader is unfamiliar with, in context the reader is unfamiliar with, and doesn't flesh out these, not seem to go anywhere. All it really does is make me want to see more of this story.

2.) You've stated previously that your philosophy for the Torchbearers is similar to the 'Death of a Thousand Cuts,' and the writing of the Ork seems to imply that he has been cut many many times, and still stands. Which makes me question whether the death of the thousand cuts is a practical practice on the battlefield, or whether it should be left in the sacrificial chambers.

 

All in all, the story raises more questions that it answers: What is the life candle? How does this campaign link to the IA? I feel I just watched an episode of Lost. I have no answers, a dozen questions, and I must see more. Give me more. Otherwise, I will hurt a stuffed animal that looks like a baby seal. Think of the baby seal!

Really, Heru has sorta hit the nail on the head. This was just a short that I thought up while sitting in line at the DMV. When I got home I decided to give the little snippet some life. It really is just something to get the wheels turning and it was simply written to be a fun little exercise that also can express some character of the Torchbearers, while I ponder over the revision of their IA article.

 

As for the Torchbearers utilizing a death by a thousand cuts type of strategy, it really doesn't seem all that complicated if a Marine spends an extra five seconds inflicting as much harm on their foe in a tortuous manner. Within the story I tried to imply that the Torchbearer sliced and diced, and in the end, not all Space Marines prevail, contrary to what Black Library publicizes.

 

It would seem to me to be a life indicator linked to the armour's sensors, kind of like a health bar in a first person shooter game. When the marine is dead the candle goes out. Also presumably it's not a real candle, but probably a display built into the armour.

More or less, its a new aesthetic addition to the Torchbearers. The concept of life-candles is still being worked out, and there's more significance being explored behind it.

 

I think it's just unrelated flavour, a way to get the juices flowing whilst also conveying subtle ideas behind the Chapter's battlefield character.

Bingo. I was just a little bored, and I've been itching to write some Power Armor fiction. I figured, eh why not.

[Tyrannicide]

So it says here that I actually posted this in September of 2009! This thing is well over a year old and the last time I touched it was back in the summer months earlier this year. Although my free time has been cut back, I've been trying to get the IA juices flowing as of late. And what better an exercise then the 'ol Torchbearers, eh? A Chapter I've struggled to do anything with since I took the reigns from Commissar Molotov and his initial project long ago. I'm trying to recharge my batteries and give this article the proper revamp it deserves. I am really am. Now it's not that I want to scrap everything as I've done previously, but rather I want to expand on previous wanderings and such.

 

First, I'd like to delve into the origins of the Torchbearers. I've always overlooked the 'origins' section of the IA. Often writing it off as something that isn't necessarily an impact and I can't express just how wrong I've been. I'd like to develop rational arguments as to why the Torchbearers were created and how they were influenced by the Eguht death cults. These are very crucial parts that I'll address at a later date.

 

The very first thing I need to decide on is what gene-seed was selected by the High Lords? Currently, the Chapter traces their lineage back to the Angels of Vengeance, a Dark Angels successor. I've tinkered around with the somber Raven Guard, and there was a time that the Salamanders were even suggested. But I'm just not sure that the Dark Angels and all their extra 'luggage' are the right choice.

 

So I ask you fellow Liberites, which Chapter would you like to see the Torchbearers derive from?

• Dark Angels
  
• White Scars
  
• Imperial Fists
  
• Iron Hands
  
• Ultramarines
  
• Raven Guard
  

Beyond all other factors the Torchbearers are a Chapter seen as insular, parochial, and ritualistic by outsiders, that practice death-cult ceremonies dedicated to the Emperor and are strongly superstitious of honoring their past.

 

No matter where their past has its roots I'd like to create a tale of how the Torchbearers came to be. I've had trouble deciding on which parent-Chapter to choose myself, so I figured why not let the Liber decide? They could easily scoff at Guilliman's teachings if they were Ultramarines' successors, and equally they could have been influenced by the White Scars superstitious ways if they were Sons of the Khan. The possibilities are all over the map, and I hope that some discussion will lead to an interesting story for the reader.

 

Any responses would be greatly appreciated and any other feedback is most welcome too. :)

[Ecritter]

Smurf successor 'successor'. Perhaps Mortifactors. Edited December 15, 2010 by Ecritter

[Heru]

As I said before in the olde Molly's original thread, Iron Hands would be my first choice.

[Marshal Rohr]

Imperial Fists. Is this even a serious question?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Despite being a huge detractor for the Dark Angels, I think they work very well in this case and am surprised to see you thinking of changing it up so dramatically when it played so well with them in the earlier draft.

 

So. my vote goes to retaining the Dark Angel seed. If I had to pick a second, it'd be the Iron Hands.

[NightrawenII]

I think both Iron Hands and White Scars could work. The Iron hands are very past-centered, bitter and isolationist and the White Scars are savage, blood-thirsty and ritualistic in the nature.

 

The Ravenguard is bitter because of their gene-seed and since you have the death-cults on the hmmm... their homeworld ^_^ which make the RG gene-seed rather redundant.

 

If the gene-seed is bothering you, chose the Ultramarines. They are blank and best to work with when you don't want the *additional luggage*.

[Shinzaren]

I lied. Not Dark Angels. White Scars or Raven Guard. RG works really well for the death aspect, and I like Scars because I don't think they get enough love. Edited December 19, 2010 by Shinzaren

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I like Scars because I don't think they get enough love.

 

What about my Corsairs? Oh how quickly they are forgotten.... all the better for them given their disposition. ;)

 

Though in the end, I agree, though I don't think they are right for this chapter. I still think DA seed is best.

[pattison]

I think the Dark Angels origin is rather atypical for such a chapter, so I think it's unique and fitting.

So my vote goes to the Dark Angels (/Angels of Vengeance).

Would be nice to see their look and symbol.